Flash Tune Detectable

[Tonymiabmw]

Ok so I have heard many different things, mostly from tuners(which is not a reliable source) What is the bottom line on this? Im interested to know can BMW see a flash tune. Anyone on the thread with a knowledge of BMW computers that isn't a tuner? Tuners are not liable for there tunes they can just walk away if something goes wrong or warranty is void.

[TeKiZeRo]

I was told that as long as the limiters (speed limiter and rev limiter) are not touched within the flash, then BMW won't be able to notice the tune has been altered.

[mike@x-ph.com]

As long as you remove the BMS before your dealer visit it will be undetectable.
Thousands of users have used BMS JB and JB4 over the year with multiple platforms.
I have not heard of even 1 case where warranty was voided ( as long as user has removed it before visit)

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

As long as you remove the BMS before your dealer visit it will be undetectable.
Thousands of users have used BMS JB and JB4 over the year with multiple platforms.
I have not heard of even 1 case where warranty was voided ( as long as user has removed it before visit)

He's talking about an ECU flash not the JB

As far as flash tuning goes, the DME will store the maximum torque, load, and boost, along with the maximum RPM and road speed. Not to mention you currently need to physically alter the ECU to load the flash tune. When they check it will be obvious. It's also true a good piggyback won't leave those traces behind. That said, no vendor will endorse warranty fraud. If you break something directly as a result of tuning your vehicle beyond factory specifications you should be the one to pay for it. Not BMW.

Mike

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

He's talking about an ECU flash not the JB

Mike

Good catch

[YMB_F80]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

As long as you remove the BMS before your dealer visit it will be undetectable.
Thousands of users have used BMS JB and JB4 over the year with multiple platforms.
I have not heard of even 1 case where warranty was voided ( as long as user has removed it before visit)

Or your dealership is super cool and they don't care. I just leave it in Map 0.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Victorwu120

Or your dealership is super cool and they don't care. I just leave it in Map 0.

Im FBO ( cobb and JB4) with inline fuel pump running e70 and i get away with it without even switching to map 0.
We actually talk about the different mods when im there

[SflBimmer8484]

If bmw wants to find it they will. They can tell if the ecu has been tampered with physically and internally by the amount of times the ecu has been flashed. The ecu also logs such things as top speed, highest rpm,boost you name it.

Flashing these ecu's require a pin to be bridged which means the ecu needs to be completely opened or drilled into the housing. The bottom of the ecu case is made out of a very soft metal that shows tampering very well scratches pry marks dents you name it.

[parky1215]

Piggy seems like way to go for now.
There are some flash tunes out there now, but I wouldn't beta test it on my car.
If you really want flash tune, wait until it fully matures to 100% stable state.
I learned my lesson before getting unfinished flash tune on my N55 135i.

[edwinm3]

"PUMA" something you should be afraid of specially if you've been messing around with tunes and piggybacks etc. Don't let anybody fool you, the car logs everything just like Andrew stated.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

"PUMA" something you should be afraid of specially if you've been messing around with tunes and piggybacks etc. Don't let anybody fool you, the car logs everything just like Andrew stated.

Aren't they saying they cannot detect the piggybacks? Andrew is talking about a flash tune.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Aren't they saying they cannot detect the piggybacks? Andrew is talking about a flash tune.

Piggyback, flash, anything, if they wanna know why your car has been running at out of specs/factory parameters that's when they will start looking and will see the reason. They built these cars and know them better than anybody else.

We're not talking about the tech who's changing the oil and spark plugs, we're talking when car needs major troubleshooting and corporate gets involved to approve that expensive repair, that's when it can get ugly. Nothing the dealer or one's buddy inside can do because thats not opt to the dealer anymore.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

Piggyback, flash, anything, if they wanna know why your car has been running at out of specs/factory parameters that's when they will start looking and will see the reason. They built these cars and know them better than anybody else.

We're not talking about the tech who's changing the oil and spark plugs, we're talking when car needs major troubleshooting and corporate gets involved to approve that expensive repair, that's when it can get ugly. Nothing the dealer or one's buddy inside can do because thats not opt to the dealer anymore.

This is true, seen it happen

[M4LAKA]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

Piggyback, flash, anything, if they wanna know why your car has been running at out of specs/factory parameters that's when they will start looking and will see the reason. They built these cars and know them better than anybody else.

We're not talking about the tech who's changing the oil and spark plugs, we're talking when car needs major troubleshooting and corporate gets involved to approve that expensive repair, that's when it can get ugly. Nothing the dealer or one's buddy inside can do because thats not opt to the dealer anymore.

Exactly. They spent a billion dollars developing this car. When you blow a 40g engine and you file your warranty claim. Even if you have a untraceable piggy back that you took out, you don't think they are going to see your insane rate of acceleration?
They are not idiots.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by M4LAKA

Exactly. They spent a billion dollars developing this car. When you blow a 40g engine and you file your warranty claim. Even if you have a untraceable piggy back that you took out, you don't think they are going to see your insane rate of acceleration?
They are not idiots.

Amazing how much of an agenda is being attempted to be pushed in this thread.

- There is no such product as an untraceable piggyback, to make this sort of claim is straight up false.
- No one should be drilling into a DME housing to install a flash tune.

BMW can and will find any trace if flash/piggyback if the situation calls for it (PUMA). Most manufacturers have the common sense to stay within safe levels and its up to the owner to do the research, ask questions and make their own choices. The further you push the envelope, the higher the risk.

If one is not prepared to take the risk, it would be advised to mod conservatively.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

There is no such product as an untraceable piggyback, to make this sort of claim is straight up false.

True, I just hate it when PPL try to make you believe their product can't be traced when they know it can be, I've been in this game too long.

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

one is not prepared to take the risk, it would be advised to mod conservatively.

Very true also, I mod and tune my cars but I'm very aware of the consequences.

[edwinm3]

This is a very delicate subject and I'm sure some will not chime in because they don't wanna put themselves in a position where they're gonna have to answer questions about what they're bringing to the table. After all these years modding and tuning my cars I have learned to be very careful. There are only a few tuners out there I would trust to mess with my very expensive car.

[M4LAKA]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Amazing how much of an agenda is being attempted to be pushed in this thread.

- There is no such product as an untraceable piggyback, to make this sort of claim is straight up false.
- No one should be drilling into a DME housing to install a flash tune.

BMW can and will find any trace if flash/piggyback if the situation calls for it (PUMA). Most manufacturers have the common sense to stay within safe levels and its up to the owner to do the research, ask questions and make their own choices. The further you push the envelope, the higher the risk.

If one is not prepared to take the risk, it would be advised to mod conservatively.

I agree with you 100%

A local dealer won't be able to tell if you have a flash tune or had a piggyback installed. BUT if you ever hope to blow your engine, and and you file a massive warrenty claim, they will be able to in Germany.

[dapple]

Wonder if anyone that posted info in here has actually read the data from the new generatio medc17.XXX ECU systems and analysed its memory and contents, or wether they are just jumping on the 'Germany will be able to tell' bandwagon.

I work as an ECU software tech, I can safetly say that 99% of info about ECU systems thats posted online is pure guesswork and speculation.

[dapple]

And for the record, any form of software modification within the standard DME unit changes the checksum of the the data within the processor. This flags up and is stored online against the vehicle, the tech doing the work wont necessarily be notified via the device.

VAG cars have the same issue with the TD1 flag: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87355

[jwilliams]

Ill clear this up as much as possible from a UK stand point.

My last car N54 335i had a JB4, Backend Flash and hybrid turbo's at the the time when my engine decided to run all sorts of random issues and needed £5000 of parts plus labour. My dealer checked codes and due to me unplugging my ECU before sleep when removing my JB4 it logged a tamper code of some sort. I did not remove my backend flash. The ECU Data was read and a PUMA report was sent to Germany to check for a tune as they had their suspicions.

And guess what.... it came back false. They could not find a tune.

[335iFFM]

Originally Posted by dapple

Wonder if anyone that posted info in here has actually read the data from the new generatio medc17.XXX ECU systems and analysed its memory and contents, or wether they are just jumping on the 'Germany will be able to tell' bandwagon.

I work as an ECU software tech, I can safetly say that 99% of info about ECU systems thats posted online is pure guesswork and speculation.

Yes. Try to read the FASTA DATEN and you'll find everything you need.