Auto Bild M4 CS vs 911 GTS

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

I'm quite surprised at the difference (~2.9 sec) between the M4 CS and M4 CP. I would have expected them to be closer. The CS only has a 10Hp advantage. 2.9 seconds is an eternity!!

Btw, that Porsche interior is stunning. Wish i had the dough.

The CS' R-compound tires account for a big portion of the difference

Further, the modest 10hp peak power increase of the CS over the CP translates to more real world performance than the 19hp increase of the CP over the base car. For instance, the CS makes 38hp more than the CP at 5400RPM. It's all about area under the curve.

CS in black, CP in red, base S55 in blue:

[Nikolas]

While the GTS and even the S are quite close in those track times, the driving experience couldn't be any more different. The GT3 is on a completely different level to the GTS.

It is remarkable though, how that performance gap has shortened with those dreaded turbos!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

While the GTS and even the S are quite close in those track times, the driving experience couldn't be any more different. The GT3 is on a completely different level to the GTS.

It is remarkable though, how that performance gap has shortened with those dreaded turbos!

...and tires.

In the past, only the GT cars were shod with R-comps. The 911 GTS in this test also wears R-compound tires.

[evanescent03]

I, for one, think these are both fantastic cars. I think it's unlikely I'd get either at their respective price points though ... I'd likely spend a little more and move up the chain. Regardless... two wicked looking and performing vehicles.

[dmboone25]

^^^I would have to agree - if I am gong to spend $100K+ on a car, I don't think I would consider a BMW at that price point.

The most compelling attribute of an M car is the dual purpose, value-based argument. You don't need a DD AND a sports car (in theory) - you just need an M.

But when the best version of the M (GTS) costs what it does, it's just hard to "justify" that price premium.

[S65V8]

Would anyone here get the GTS 991.1 over the GTS 991.2? Has anyone driven both to make the comparison?

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I dont know, but at sport auto test the 911.2 GTS was only 1 tenth slower than 991.2 GT3 on hockenheim. And we can all find test that support what we want to put out, right? (I explain futher down)

Just see M4 CS vs Nissan GT-R In auto zeitung. If you see the laptime of the M4 CS there Its way off the pace a GTS post there In auto zeitung test 991 GT3 RS vs M4 GTS.

I had the CSL for 5 years since It came out, never ever did I have any sit In the backseat! Hence for me I wanted CSL like M4 GTS, no rear seat. So I guess we all want different and thats ok. I would never buy M4 GTS If rear seat was In It. See, we look for differen things, and It ok.

Also my advice to you (and many others here) Is dont take all this comparing test to bloody Importent. Its just a test, that day. And mean nothing more than a guide. See the overall picture and drive tracks your self, then ad It all to the mix. (Factory time, different testers times, your own times, or how the car stack up vs competition out In the real world when real owners drive their cars.

Did you know that new gen.2 GT3 first did lap 7.24 seconds with sport auto. It was to slow Hence Porsche did put on brand new tires and then sport auto cut 6 seconds. Now the tires sport auto drove first laps was not like gone and worn out, but If you driven any tracks you know Its a big difference new tire to slightly used!

Do you think the M4 GTS did get this tire treatment as well, or every car they test? Also consider outside temp, and temp outide matter! It matter very much, Hence thats why gen.2 GT3 Is not that much faster at hockenheim vs gen.2 911 GTS.

GT3 gen 2 was 1 tenth FASTER than GTS 911.2 due to GT3 drove 26 degrees celsius and 911.2 GTS did not! There Is a bigger gap between gen.2 GT3 and gen.2 911 GTS, Its bigger that that 1 tenth sport auto test did show you. Its not like a fact just due to sport auto did get that result. See the big picture.


Its a a normal reason why GTS 911.2 was that close the gen.2 GT3.
Factory Porsche testers do put a bigger gap in them two cars when they test, WHY?! Well for the obvius reason they give the cars 100% equally test. Sport Auto dont! One day Its 30 degrees when sport auto test, next Its 12 degrees( It matter what temp out / tarmac)Pay attention as this matter alot.

Porsche factory lap the 2 cars at same temp day.

So why dont you stopp this pointless ..1 second here and this and that..you read In test.

Drive for your selfe and have fun and ad to the mix temp and driving conditions will differ.

Like M3 GTS did lap sport auto ring lap at 30 degrees 7.37min. 991 GT3 sport auto ring lap was 14 degrees, big impact to tire and car. Outcome Is way different If you swap and drive a 2x turbo M4 GTS at 14 degees and GT3 In 30 degrees( tires and car Is slower when hot, even turbo cars suffer more In regards to engine)

Pay attention. It would lap easy a few seconds faster If 12-14 degrees. Also If It had brand new tires like that gen.2 GT3 It would also cut a few seconds.

There Is a reason Porsche let sport auto come to the supertest the same they Porsche factory driver Lars Kern set GT3 record lap. They get to put new tires then on GT3 when sport auto did not get the GT3 to full pace.

5-6 seconds Is exaktly what used R comp tires is down In pace, Hence Porsche put new tires on car as they know this. Heck even I know as I driven that many lap on nur.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I actually think that is where BMW failed.

Instead of making a CS and GTS, if BMW would have made a car that has the pace of the GTS on track but maintained DD practicality like the CS at the CS price point, they would have a true winner in their hands. It would be like a modern day E46 CSL and I am sure it would have received much warmer reviews from the press.

You keep repeating a weak argument about the gap between cars. In this test, there is 0.8 seconds between the M4 GTS and M4 CS while there is 0.3 seconds between the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GTS, not that different. Further, you're not comparing the same generations, just wait until we see the 991.2 GT3 lap time .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

I dont know, but at sport auto test the 911.2 GTS was only 1 tenth slower than 991.2 GT3 on hockenheim. And we can all find test that support what we want to put out, right?

Just see M4 CS vs Nissan GT-R In auto zeitung. If you see the laptime of the M4 CS there Its way off the pace a GTS post there In auto zeitung test 991 GT3 RS vs M4 GTS.

I had the CSL for 5 years since It came out, never ever did I have any sit In the backseat! Hence for me I wanted CSL like M4 GTS, no rear seat. So I guess we all want different and thats ok. I would never buy M4 GTS If rear seat was In It. See, we look for differen things, and It ok.

Also my advice to you (and many others here) Is dont take all this comparing test to bloody Importent. Its just a test, that day. And mean nothing more than a guide. See the overall picture and drive tracks your self, then ad It all to the mix. (Factory time, different testers times, your own times, or how the car stack up vs competition out In the real world when real owners drive their cars.

Did you know that new gen.2 GT3 first did lap 7.24 seconds with sport auto. It was to slow Hence Porsche did put on brand new tires and then sport auto cut 6 seconds. Now the tires sport auto drove first laps was not like gone and worn out, but If you driven any tracks you know Its a big difference new tire to slightly used!

Do you think the M4 GTS did get this tire treatment as well, or every car they test? Also consider outside temp, and temp outide matter! It matter very much, Hence thats why gen.2 GT3 Is not that much faster at hockenheim vs gen.2 911 GTS.

GT3 gen 2 was 1 tenth FASTER than GTS 911.2 due to GT3 drove 26 degrees celsius and 911.2 GTS did not! There Is a bigger gap between gen.2 GT3 and gen.2 911 GTS, Its bigger that that 1 tenth sport auto test did show you. Its not like a fact just due to sport auto did get that result. See the big picture.


Its a a normal reason why GTS 911.2 was that close the gen.2 GT3.
Factory Porsche testers do put a bigger gap in them two cars when they test, WHY?! Well for the obvius reason they give the cars 100% equally test. Sport Auto dont! One day Its 30 degrees when sport auto test, next Its 12 degrees( It matter what temp out / tarmac)Pay attention as this matter alot.

Porsche factory lap the 2 cars at same temp day.

So why dont you stopp this pointless ..1 second here and this and that..you read In test.

Drive for your selfe and have fun and ad to the mix temp and driving conditions will differ.

Like M3 GTS did lap sport auto ring lap at 30 degrees 7.37min. 991 GT3 sport auto ring lap was 14 degrees, big impact to tire and car. Outcome Is way different If you swap and drive a 2x turbo M4 GTS at 14 degees and GT3 In 30 degrees( tires and car Is slower when hot, even turbo cars suffer more In regards to engine)

Pay attention. It would lap easy a few seconds faster If 12-14 degrees. Also If It had brand new tires like that gen.2 GT3 It would also cut a few seconds.

There Is a reason Porsche let sport auto come to the supertest the same they Porsche factory driver Lars Kern set GT3 record lap. They get to put new tires then on GT3 when sport auto did not get the GT3 to full pace.

5-6 seconds Is exaktly what used R comp tires is down In pace, Hence Porsche put new tires on car as they know this. Heck even I know as I driven that many lap on nur.

You're such a tool Captain. You seem to think you're the only one with track experience while all other forum members only read magazines

When a thread is for a specific test from a magazine, the discussion in the thread should be focused around that specific test, otherwise everyone will lose the reference.

I spent most of my engineering career around testing, so believe me, I understand all to well testing variability and control of test conditions. I am actually at the track as I am typing this, having just replaced my worn rear tires with fresh ones. Same driver, same day, new tires and my lap times improved by well over one second, so yes, I perfectly understand the effect of tire condition.

I do look at magazine test results at an aggregate level to see if there are general trends, that's how it should be done and it does provide a fair appreciation of the difference between different cars.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I know i know, Its just a pointer to the Mass, who give a ...one tenths or second here or there. I know there are loads of people driving track and got a ton o experience. But It to many not doing that, who pay to much attention to what ever magazine ..
I Love sport auto and all magazine but one need to mix It up with all things around. Then Its more close to reality.

[saeyedoc]

Here we go again