F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[FogCityM3]

Wouldn't "when empty" mean no fuel/fluids? That's how I construed it when I first read the M4 DTM press release, as "empty" isn't a word typically used to mean no driver in the car, it would refer to no fuel or fluids, unless this is a "lost in translation" moment that the Germans aren't using "empty" in the right context. If no fuel/fluids, this would not be DIN weight. Also, if you add 80 kg (stated as the empty weight of predecessor e92 to 1497 kg in the DTM press release), comes out to ~3477 lbs, which no E92 has ever weighed in real world, so from that standpoint also sounds like a true "empty" weight. Also given different fuel tank capacities (E92, F80 and DTM all compared to each other in the release) wouldn't it make sense to compare apples to apples by comparing no fuel/fluids on all 3? Finally we don't know if whatever was weighed by TUV included the CC brakes and we KNOW that BMW's website info has numerous errors (where quality control is not the best). Something is amiss with this data, way too confusing/unclear and now that a car has actually been weighed, further establishes that the real world weights of E9x and F8x won't be a huge difference and BMW did stretch the truth. Not a good fact pattern.

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not sure that we can conclude that 3300lbs is a dry weight just yet. In fact 3300lbs is listed by bmw.de as a DIN curb weight. And it MUST have been achieved and weighed by an independent source in order to get a full EU type approval. This is why some European countries have their new car tax based on the type approved curb weight. It's because it's a genuine real weight, not just marketing mumbo jumbo...

If we see type approval weights for EU that says 3300lbs (or rather 1497kg), then a independent type approval authoriy (like TÜV) must have had a car presented to them that weighs in at that weight (and that would be according to EU/DIN standards).

But whether BMW put helium in the tyres or did other trickery to achieve that 3300lbs I don't know

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Wouldn't "when empty" mean no fuel/fluids? That's how I construed it when I first read the M4 DTM press release, as "empty" isn't a word typically used to mean no driver in the car, it would refer to no fuel or fluids, unless this is a "lost in translation" moment that the Germans aren't using "empty" in the right context. If no fuel/fluids, this would not be DIN weight. Also, if you add 80 kg (stated as the empty weight of predecessor e92 to 1497 kg in the DTM press release), comes out to ~3477 lbs, which no E92 has ever weighed in real world, so from that standpoint also sounds like a true "empty" weight. Also given different fuel tank capacities (E92, F80 and DTM all compared to each other in the release) wouldn't it make sense to compare apples to apples by comparing no fuel/fluids on all 3? Finally we don't know if whatever was weighed by TUV included the CC brakes and we KNOW that BMW's website info has numerous errors (where quality control is not the best). Something is amiss with this data, way too confusing/unclear and now that a car has actually been weighed, further establishes that the real world weights of E9x and F8x won't be a huge difference and BMW did stretch the truth. Not a good fact pattern.

IMHO the only "fact pattern" we have is the weighing of a pre production model, the rest is just us debating...

German language uses the word leer for curb weight. Leer translates to empty. It's also worth to note that we aren't just talking about the driver, but also luggage.

So when they say empty that means no driver (68kg) and no luggage (7kg).

It's clearly stated that the 1497kg weight is the DIN weight, NOT a dry weight.

[FogCityM3]

If what you're saying is true, then the E92 DIN weight with 90% fuel and all fluids is 3,477 lbs? Interesting.

Also came across this article and don't know where they got their information about weight, but also corroborates the measurements taken from OP (is actually ~20 lbs less). Also another US publication (can't remember which one also said something expecting 3,500 weight)

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...3-f80-e30-e46/

Despite mosaics being invented in Europe, "mosaic theory" in analysis and helping to establish patterns doesn't seem to be quite as popular there

We shall find out very soon!

Originally Posted by Boss330

IMHO the only "fact pattern" we have is the weighing of a pre production model, the rest is just us debating...

German language uses the word leer for curb weight. Leer translates to empty. It's also worth to note that we aren't just talking about the driver, but also luggage.

So when they say empty that means no driver (68kg) and no luggage (7kg).

It's clearly stated that the 1497kg weight is the DIN weight, NOT a dry weight.

[Black Gold]

Directly from the Bmw listed us curb weight

[MrCsquared]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Your definition is the same as the US curb weight definition, only loose the driver in your definition. If you adjust to 33% options then you have the F80 US curb weight, just subtract driver of 165lbs.


US curb weight according to bmwusa is 3540lbs (MT) and 3595lbs (DCT). Just subtract the driver of 165lbs and you will have the "ASAP curb weight definition"

3540-165 = 3375lbs
3595-165 = 3430lbs

3375 without driver, wow.

I don't mind that weight at all. Hadn't wrapped my head around the driver being included (haven't paid too much attention to this thread).

[ybbiz34]

Why don't we just politely ask the lucky guy who just took delivery to weigh his car?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Why don't we just politely ask the lucky guy who just took delivery to weigh his car?

I have asked that exact question on that thread (even though someone then referred me to this thread as an answer... )

[JoeFromPA]

I was just reading on another forum that the e90 m3 offered a fixed rear seat back or fold-down rear seat back and the weight difference was confirmed at around 45 pounds.

I share this because it's an element I haven't read on the f80 forum once or in this thread: are we comparing an e90 m3 WITH fold-down rear seats to an f80 m3 (which now comes standard with fold-down rear seats).

For what it's worth, I found this e90 m3 weighing in at 3,611 pounds with 3/4 tank: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295896

However, note that that e90 m3 didn't have the cold weather package or fold down rear seats which would have put it at around 3,650 pounds. Add another 4 gallons of gas for a full tank and it would have been 3,675 pounds compared to the supposedly 3,562 pounds on this m3 (which had a few options).

Still showing alot less weight-savings than promised, but I can foresee the real "equally optioned" weight savings coming out close to 150 pounds.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I was just reading on another forum that the e90 m3 offered a fixed rear seat back or fold-down rear seat back and the weight difference was confirmed at around 45 pounds.

I share this because it's an element I haven't read on the f80 forum once or in this thread: are we comparing an e90 m3 WITH fold-down rear seats to an f80 m3 (which now comes standard with fold-down rear seats).

For what it's worth, I found this e90 m3 weighing in at 3,611 pounds with 3/4 tank: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295896

However, note that that e90 m3 didn't have the cold weather package or fold down rear seats which would have put it at around 3,650 pounds. Add another 4 gallons of gas for a full tank and it would have been 3,675 pounds compared to the supposedly 3,562 pounds on this m3 (which had a few options).

Still showing alot less weight-savings than promised, but I can foresee the real "equally optioned" weight savings coming out close to 150 pounds.

Good find!

[ZGM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I was just reading on another forum that the e90 m3 offered a fixed rear seat back or fold-down rear seat back and the weight difference was confirmed at around 45 pounds.

WOW, I find it hard to believe that the fold down seat mechanism and extra stiffening would add 45 pounds?
Are there any other sources that can confirm the 45 pound increase?
Just wondering.

From what I have read on other forums, the E30 rear seat delete is around 15 pounds for the bottom cushion and 45-50 pounds for the entire rear seat back.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by ZGM3

WOW, I find it hard to believe that the fold down seat mechanism and extra stiffening would add 45 pounds?
Are there any other sources that can confirm the 45 pound increase?
Just wondering.

From what I have read on other forums, the E30 rear seat delete is around 15 pounds for the bottom cushion and 45-50 pounds for the entire rear seat back.

It was ultimately confirmed by owners themselves of the e90 back in ~2008, so I simply confirmed it by looking around different forums on that exact topic. I won't simply post a bunch of links to various forums here, so take it for what it's worth. However, I can confirm without doubt that the rear fold down seats (seat back and bottom) on an e90 weigh 80 pounds WHEN THEY ARE FOLD DOWN versions. My guess is that it's not the fold-down mechanism, it's that the crash test requirements of fold-down rear seats demand alot more reinforcement than a solid fixed seat back across the whole back row that's physically attached to the frame.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

It was ultimately confirmed by owners themselves of the e90 back in ~2008, so I simply confirmed it by looking around different forums on that exact topic. I won't simply post a bunch of links to various forums here, so take it for what it's worth. However, I can confirm without doubt that the rear fold down seats (seat back and bottom) on an e90 weigh 80 pounds WHEN THEY ARE FOLD DOWN versions. My guess is that it's not the fold-down mechanism, it's that the crash test requirements of fold-down rear seats demand alot more reinforcement than a solid fixed seat back across the whole back row that's physically attached to the frame.

I wonder why BMW decided to make the rear seat folding option a standard feature on the F80. As far as I can remember BMW have always had this as an option on previous 3 series - with their focus on weight saving for this generation they could have saved even more weight by keeping it as an option and made more money by by charging us for the feature in the process. Seems like a strange standard feature to include on the M3.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ss134

I wonder why BMW decided to make the rear seat folding option a standard feature on the F80. As far as I can remember BMW have always had this as an option on previous 3 series - with their focus on weight saving for this generation they could have saved even more weight by keeping it as an option and made more money by by charging us for the feature in the process. Seems like a strange standard feature to include on the M3.

Because it makes sense to have that option.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Because it makes sense to have that option.

Ha! Zing

I agree that it's odd. The only thing I can think of, and it's really not that reasonable, is that every F30 now comes with fold down rear seats standard and maybe there is a production reason for it to be standard on the F80. This is a new standard item for the 3-series compared to previous gens (AFAIK).

Still odd though, since they did M3 specific stuff like getting rid of the armrest and a few other rear amenities.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ss134

I wonder why BMW decided to make the rear seat folding option a standard feature on the F80.

Because it is a standard F30 feature now and they were not going to incur the added cost of specially designing a fixed seat for the M3 only. I suspect the reason it is a standard 3 Series feature now to simplify development and reduce platform variations. I believe it is standard equipment for competitors cars as well.

[BD SM3RF]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The silliness here is profound.

Exactly! I don't know why everyone here doesn't just do what I do and completely strip everything out of the interior of the car and strap a 10 gallon bucket behind the wheel to sit on. Easily gets you down to the 3300 target which is what matters

[ss134]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Because it is a standard F30 feature now and they were not going to incur the added cost of specially designing a fixed seat for the M3 only. I suspect the reason it is a standard 3 Series feature now to simplify development and reduce platform variations. I believe it is standard equipment for competitors cars as well.

I see, did not realise this was standard on the F30. It was an $800 option on my E90!!!

[Holset]

Here in Sweden electric seats are optional on M3/M4 should save a couple of kg's/lbs if not option those.
So a no optioned M4 here should be even a bit lighter than the listed 1497kg/3300lbs weight.

[Jeff_DML]

As someone who owned a e90 m3 without fold down rear seats I am glad they are standard on the F80. Worth the weight, not like this car is a elise or something, large 4 door sedan so might as well have extra practicality. I would prefer manual seats as a option to reduce weight.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Holset

Here in Sweden electric seats are optional on M3/M4 should save a couple of kg's/lbs if not option those.
So a no optioned M4 here should be even a bit lighter than the listed 1497kg/3300lbs weight.

Yeah but who wants an 80k dual purpose car w/ no power seats? lol

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Yeah but who wants an 80k dual purpose car w/ no power seats? lol

People who care deeply about 40 pounds?

[ss134]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Yeah but who wants an 80k dual purpose car w/ no power seats? lol

Me!! I'm the only person who'll drive this car- once the seats are set thats how they'll stay. Power seats are a waste for me, I'll use them once.