05-22-2014, 10:59 AM | #111 | |
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05-22-2014, 11:00 AM | #112 | ||
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As for this generation of cars there is the track Mustangs, track Camaros, Z06/ZR1, Cayman GTS, etc not to mention a base GTR is the same price as an M4 with options and AMG C class will have an even sportier S version and most people cross shop many of these cars while the only sportier version of the M4 will be special edition $5k paint job lol. M stands for marketing and everyone knows. I'm quite the M fan given I walk around in M hats, shirts, key chains, wallets, and it's not trolling or buyers remorse to want the Motorsport division of BMW to make actual Motorsport cars.
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05-22-2014, 11:04 AM | #113 | |
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A lot of people also consider the M3/4 to be sports cars...and I would consider them more sports car/sedan than I would GT car. Again, can be argued either way. Last edited by Wolfinwolfsclothing; 05-22-2014 at 11:09 AM.. |
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05-22-2014, 11:30 AM | #114 |
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I don't know any cars othen than a C63 and an RS4 that can be legitimately compared to the M3. Certainly nothing American nor Japanese... Infiniti claims to be making something to compete but I haven't seen it. You are all talking about cars of way diffefent classes than the M3. Some are American pony cars, some are track monsters, some are all out sportscars none of which can be compared to an M3 as it is a GT / Luxo sports tourer.
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05-22-2014, 11:45 AM | #115 |
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05-22-2014, 11:48 AM | #116 |
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You're right I missed the ISF but that car is very outdated now. ATS-V nor the JAG isn't even out yet so nothing to compare.
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05-22-2014, 12:09 PM | #117 | |
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05-22-2014, 12:30 PM | #118 | |
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Stiff competition. M3 is likely to lose its fair share of comparison test battles. But for right now, it sits on top. And as for 'Ring times, well we've learned from the past that the faster car on paper or even in a drag race isn't necessarily going to excel on the 'Ring. |
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05-22-2014, 01:04 PM | #119 |
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Ummm, look both the 911s and the M3/4 are amazing wonderful fantastic cars. Of course the Porsche excels in many regards, and of course the M is more practical and less expensive. The Jaguar is arguably more beautiful. I would be happy with any of them, but the M3 fits my needs for a sedan. That it is even considered as a serious competitor to the 911 is awesome.
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05-22-2014, 04:44 PM | #120 | |
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05-23-2014, 01:46 AM | #121 | |
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From BMW blog Although the M3 GTS is slightly quicker in a straight line than the E46 CSL, the lap times around the Nurburgring are surprisingly close. According to FastLaps.com, the 450 hp GTS is faster than the 360 hp CSL by a mere 2 seconds. 7:50 vs 7:48. So basically the new M3 is as hast as the E90 GTS? |
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05-23-2014, 02:03 AM | #122 | ||
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Lets wait until June 13th. and see what happens ! |
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05-23-2014, 12:25 PM | #123 |
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Good article. A real mixed bag though, consistent with other reviews. So much for the idea there will be no turbo lag.
My predictions for N'Ring lap times were: Dec 2010: 7:53-7:58 May 2013 (updated): Low 7:5X Oh no, wait, "you can't get this correct before the testing"... Or maybe "you have to drive the car personally also to get a time or good guess"... Whatever.
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05-23-2014, 03:33 PM | #124 | |
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I believe I also said at best low 7:5x's and more likely mid to high 7s (i.e 7:55-7:58). |
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05-24-2014, 04:32 PM | #125 | |
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But yes, a race team will have a fairly accurate estimate of what time their car will do on each circuit they race at, based on simulations. But they still have to do practice sessions to dial in the car and get the drivers feedback on how the car feels and reacts. |
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05-24-2014, 10:10 PM | #126 | |
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Also it's worth noting, that although a test driver is required a significant portion of what is learned in testing is through high end data acquisition which provides insights and guides changes to set up (i.e. conclusions) typically not discernable by many test drivers... My good N'Ring estimates were about 20% based on simulation (lap time vs. power to weight regression), 40% estimating how many standard deviations better than that regression the M4 would come in at (i.e. how much the car would overperform the model) and about 40% on an observation of competitors...
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05-26-2014, 05:16 AM | #127 |
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Knowing that HvS doesn´t like the handling (tyres and engine characteristic wise!) of the F30 Alpine B3 with its 430hp 3.0ltr.I6 turbo engine and its 20" Michelin PSS on track and reached only an time of 8.14min in the NOS Supertest ... I guess for the new M4 an Supertest NOS time of between 7.53 and 7.58min, simply because the M4 is in the same hp-class, has the same engine configuration and the same tyres ... ~ 20sec faster, only because its much stiffer chassis, better suspension and less weight !!!
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06-03-2014, 06:09 AM | #128 |
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F80 M3 Sedan out-Runs Ferrari F430 at the Nordschleife?
That's what the numbers say. 7:50 BMW vs. 7:55 F430. I'm stunned. I've driven an F430 and it is an absolute beast. Am I delusional or is this real?
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06-05-2014, 12:43 AM | #131 | |
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That being said, don't count on winning any straight line contests vs. the Ferrari it does make more power (even knowing the M4 is around 450 hp) and weighs less. Also, if one were to mount up the same exact tire on the M4, Pilot Super Sport (replacing the P Zero Corsa) in the appropriate size for the F430, I expect the lap time advantage (likely since we don't have an official one yet) would disappear. Also don't underestimate the emotional aspect of a car. A slower lap in an F430 will, IMHO, never be matched for thrill by a slightly faster lap in an F8X M3/4.
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