M Performance Exhaust - Why?

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

this shit happens so much on the forums . idk WTF people are thinking half the time with the rim choice.

[jimmyM2C]

Thanks for all the helpful and humorous replies.

To address some comments: yes, I had read numerous threads on how awesome MPE is, I just never heard an A/B comparison in reasonably controlled conditions. If I may use some hyperbole, it seems like "here's my stock exhaust idling around a parking lot, and here is my MPE with downpipes going through tunnels at full throttle".

I agree that replacing the resonators with an H pipe would have aural significance, and yes, titanium has different sound characteristics than stainless steel does. Those differences plus any configurational differences would have an affect on the sound.

In no way was I attempting to slam MPE owners, just curious and wishing for an A/B comparison. Before I bought my Porsche Sport Exhaust on the 4S, I listened to many direct comparisons with and without. Also, that was a big change (the PSE adds a bypass where none existed before) and only cost a measly $3200.

Now that I am back in the BMW world, I will try to get with the program!

[irablumberg]

Sadly, it appears that even BMW does not believe that the MPE makes any performance difference as I have not seen any claims by BMW for any increase in HP or TQ for this product. You would think that would be an important selling point that BMW would mention if there was in fact any benefit in this area.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Why is the MPE this generation so expensive? At least with the prior, it was made of an exotic alloy (Inconel, which made for a completely unique sound) that other manufacturers (e.g. Eisenmann) also offered comparable units for $7,500+, so the MPE was a bargain for what you got…not really seeing the price/value relationship in this case. Is it because of the valves that add all the cost or is BMW just trying to increase margins?

I see three reasons for it to be more expensive. First, the MPE on the F8X is still made of an exotic material which is actually more expensive and lighter than the one used on the E9X, Titanium instead of Inconel. Second, the MPE is a full cat back on the F8X as opposed as an axle back on the E9X; it replaces the mid resonator with an H-pipe. Third, you already mentioned, the valves do add some cost.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

First, the MPE on the F8X is still made of an exotic material which is actually more expensive and lighter than the one used on the E9X, Titanium instead of Inconel.

Wait, hold on there. Inconel is a much more exotic material - it's an austenitic nickel-chromium based super alloy, specially that is corrosion resistant and extremely light and strong but most importantly extremely temperature stable. It's a better material for exhaust pieces because it is less brittle than titanium - Ti is extremely hard (like Inconel) but it is very brittle especially in the cold (unlike Inconel).

That said, both are complete silliness when it comes to exhausts, when regular stainless steel does just fine.

The M Performance exhaust is more expensive because we're dumb enough to pay for it!

It does sound significantly better than the stock exhaust - it's hard to tell from videos (there is a good A/B comparison in the forums) but like a lot of things, has to be heard in person to actually appreciate.

Is it worth the $$$ + $$$$$$ for exhaust tips? Probably not, especially given that it makes exactly zero power. I actually think that the majority of sound difference comes from the H pipe and resonator delete - the stock exhaust makes almost no restriction when the valves are open.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

Epic

[F30form]

Originally Posted by kitw

Wait, hold on there. Inconel is a much more exotic material - it's an austenitic nickel-chromium based super alloy, specially that is corrosion resistant and extremely light and strong but most importantly extremely temperature stable. It's a better material for exhaust pieces because it is less brittle than titanium - Ti is extremely hard (like Inconel) but it is very brittle especially in the cold (unlike Inconel).

That said, both are complete silliness when it comes to exhausts, when regular stainless steel does just fine.

The M Performance exhaust is more expensive because we're dumb enough to pay for it!

It does sound significantly better than the stock exhaust - it's hard to tell from videos (there is a good A/B comparison in the forums) but like a lot of things, has to be heard in person to actually appreciate.

Is it worth the $$$ + $$$$$$ for exhaust tips? Probably not, especially given that it makes exactly zero power. I actually think that the majority of sound difference comes from the H pipe and resonator delete - the stock exhaust makes almost no restriction when the valves are open.

I'm sorry, I have to chime in here.

The reason why BMW doesn't claim any power gains is because NO exhaust on a modern BMW really makes any power gains unless there is a tune involved.

Lets take Akra for example. They always quote +/- 12 RWHP on the M5 exhaust which is almost EXACTLY the same as the M Performance Exhaust (it was co developed). BMW quotes NO power gains. Why? Because the cars will compensate for the increased flow after adaption. Before adaption it will make slightly more power. The only way to take advantage of any performance benefit would be with a tune.

Long and short of the story, is that NO AFTERMARKET EXHAUSTS will make more power on the F8X platform unless the true restriction (the first set of cats) is removed and/or a tune is introduced to make use of the extra flow. BMW does not want angry customers saying they didn't get exactly 12 more horses when they dyno it but other aftermarket MFGs could probably care less.

The positive side of this, is that unlike other aftermarket companies, they will stand behind their product and the warranty it comes with it. IMO, that's where the extra $$ goes. There also side benefits like not droning like crazy on the highway, but no one here cares about that, its all about POWAH

[NorCal f80]

I figured the reason why no claimed HP gains on the MPE is because it's catback not DP back?

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

This is fucking epic. I also agree, and fully embrace it. (except i have no problem with being transparent with the next buyer)

[volkl23]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

[FogCityM3]

No way that titanium is more $$$ than inconel, which is more expensive and more difficult to weld. You only have to look at companies that offer inconel alternatives, which are priced much higher than titanium, in addition to racing exhausts, the most expensive of which are inconel.

Also old MPE had inconel connecting pipes, but of course was really from resonators onwards.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I see three reasons for it to be more expensive. First, the MPE on the F8X is still made of an exotic material which is actually more expensive and lighter than the one used on the E9X, Titanium instead of Inconel. Second, the MPE is a full cat back on the F8X as opposed as an axle back on the E9X; it replaces the mid resonator with an H-pipe. Third, you already mentioned, the valves do add some cost.

[Labrada_Exoticz]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

Amazing : Thank you for that epic comment

[Hoopumpers]

F30form nailed it. No gains without downpipes. Exhaust is for sound only on these turbos, and IMO it's sorely needed

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

F30form nailed it. No gains without downpipes. Exhaust is for sound only on these turbos, and IMO it's sorely needed

According to the AA thread they are seeing increases with a downpipe back system.

[HSF87ZED]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

Best Post Ever!!!!!!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kitw

Wait, hold on there. Inconel is a much more exotic material - it's an austenitic nickel-chromium based super alloy, specially that is corrosion resistant and extremely light and strong but most importantly extremely temperature stable. It's a better material for exhaust pieces because it is less brittle than titanium - Ti is extremely hard (like Inconel) but it is very brittle especially in the cold (unlike Inconel).

That said, both are complete silliness when it comes to exhausts, when regular stainless steel does just fine.

The M Performance exhaust is more expensive because we're dumb enough to pay for it!

It does sound significantly better than the stock exhaust - it's hard to tell from videos (there is a good A/B comparison in the forums) but like a lot of things, has to be heard in person to actually appreciate.

Is it worth the $$$ + $$$$$$ for exhaust tips? Probably not, especially given that it makes exactly zero power. I actually think that the majority of sound difference comes from the H pipe and resonator delete - the stock exhaust makes almost no restriction when the valves are open.

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

No way that titanium is more $$$ than inconel, which is more expensive and more difficult to weld. You only have to look at companies that offer inconel alternatives, which are priced much higher than titanium, in addition to racing exhausts, the most expensive of which are inconel.

Also old MPE had inconel connecting pipes, but of course was really from resonators onwards.

We use both materials quite extensively in our aero engines at work, so I am familiar with both of them. Inconel is a great material, it is very strong and very stable at high temperatures but it is not particularly light and it is trickier to manufacture and weld. Titanium on its part is very light and and relatively strong but not as good at high temperatures. Pound for pound, Titanium is more expensive.

My understanding is that the entire rear section of the F8X MPE (the equivalent of the E9X MPE) is made of titanium, even the connecting pipes. I don't see how they could have welded another material to Ti. It is the mid section H-pipe, that is clamped to the rear section, that is made of "light weight" stainless steel.

Purely speculation on my part, but I guess that with the lower EGT of a FI engines, BMW might have figured that titanium was plenty sufficient and get the benefit of the lighter weight.

[tareemaa]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

Wow, someone needed to get some things off their chest, LOL.

To the OP, if you haven't realized it already, there are some who prefer form over function, some who prefer function over form. I think most people here buy this car because they believe in function over form. The MPE sounds pretty damn good in my opinion but not good enough to justify that cost. But cost is relative to the buyer so if its chump change to you, go for it. If you want performance benefit, with slight improvement in sound, start with down pipes and go from there. For looks I would start off by switching out your tips for a better look out back.

Hope this helps, congrats on the M.

[Aro1]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

Haha. I can't stand most of the aftermarket wheels. They look more appropriate on an import tuner car and in my eyes really ruin the look of a modern refined car such as the F80 series. Most of them are far too gaudy. Stock wheels look so much better. Dropping the car just makes the situation worse.

[Deviant]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

F30form nailed it. No gains without downpipes. Exhaust is for sound only on these turbos, and IMO it's sorely needed

GOLFFRR got some small gains from Eisenmann exhaust alone. I saw they dyno with my own eyes.

[w00tw00t]

Originally Posted by Brady1984

jimjoeM4 you are new so I will lay it all out for you in 10 easy steps, you need to go ahead and get on the bandwagon and stop thinking for yourself these mods have been carefully laid out for us:
Step 1) You order your car with super options XXXX and X and run down every other choice of color, interior and gadget.
Step 2) Before it arrives buy several thousand dollars in parts to put on it because chrome disgusts you or you just can't bear to touch anything not covered in carbon fiber and suede... sorry, alcantara.
Step 3) Get a JB4 without the slightest need for more power because hey, racecar.
Step 4) Get the MPE, Akra exhaust or local shop straight pipe and catless downpipes because you and your neighbor will just love the sound of the exhaust at 5 am. Also you definitely need a titanium pipe "down there" you know.
Step 5) Now you can finally take delivery of the car, bitch about your SA, CA or other guys at the dealership with an A in their title who won't answer your texts or e-mails at 5am.
Step 6) Now it's time to put on the ugliest most expensive wheels you can find, drop the car 11 inches so it rides below the surface of the road and handles like shit.
Step 7) Go to "Mexico" to race your buddies XXXXX mobile, which is a total POS, can't hang or is modded in such a secret and stealth way that no car on the earth can outrun it.
Step 8) Get bored with original ugly wheels, change wheels, apply hideous decal, lights, sirens, fuzzy dice and a matte wrap... that's what it needs a matte wrap.
Step 9) Add super secret map 99 with methanol, ethanol, menthol and eucalyptus injection. Complain that it cuts out and runs out of steam at 7,900 RPM.
Step 10) Remove crap, sell it to unsuspecting buyer; repeat.

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by jimjoeM4

I apologize in advance if this has been answered already (I suspect it has, but finding it...?).

Why is there any need for the MPE? I understand that it is 8 kg lighter (or something like that). And it definitely looks better. If that is the motivation, then OK, I understand.

I don't understand why there should be any sound difference. I have not seen a good A/B comparison where only the exhaust is changed (i.e., cats left alone).

When the bypass valves open up, isn't the exhaust essentially straight-through? In that case, the exhaust wouldn't make any difference. True?

Thanks for the clarifications!

Hahaha

I would love to hear your views on CCBs lol

[dmk08]

I got it because I love the way it sounds, I got a great deal on it where I can likely resell for around what I paid, and I love the way the titanium tips look.