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05-04-2013, 05:30 PM | #67 | ||
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At the end of the day, I'd LOVE to have my concerns negated. |
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05-04-2013, 10:52 PM | #68 |
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Eh, they are selling their new cars pretty well... I think most people are simply going for "luxury features" and "badge" when shopping for BMW's nowadays (for them BMW is just another luxury brand like Mercedes or Lexus) and they could care less about things like "steering feedback" or "suspension response" or the natural sound of powerful engine (instead of MP3 soundtrack of an engine in new M5 )... Which sucks for people who actually like to drive, but what can you do...
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05-05-2013, 01:30 AM | #69 |
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NOT ME
I Hope someone from BMW is listing... WE DO NOT WANT, OR LIKE, ELECTRONIC STEERING!
Hydraulic, or say goodbye to my business, and many more I would assume....
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05-05-2013, 01:41 AM | #70 | |
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Right.
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05-05-2013, 02:37 AM | #73 |
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He means E90 M3s are gone for good unless they sell them as Chinese M3s for the sub brand - when is the cutoff for E92/3s?
I want my M car to sound like F1 and handle on rails and feel like it has a soul of a pissed off bull or shark - it is supposed to be Motorsport derived it should have that oh-shit factor For the fancier crowd that likes quiet and soft and ease and comfort and doesn't want to hear the induction or spool or blow off get the 550i or if you want economy the 28i or AH - I do like V8/10s that rev to the sky and proper manual transmissions but DCT can be good and turbo 4s and 6s and 3s can be good too . Bespoke and RWD go together and light weight and 50/50 I hope M is listening that if EPS and active sound and turbos become the standard please do your best to make it surgically close as possible to hydraulics and pump the actual engine noise in through sound tubes that don't rob boost and keep up the work on reducing turbo lag |
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05-05-2013, 05:08 AM | #74 |
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I check the emission requirement on Europe, not US, but I think what is leagal to sell Europe is too in US.
So electric steering drop co2 emissions automaticly 2.2g/km and consuption 0.3L/100km(bmw website). 1995 Bmw average co2 emissions are 210g/km, nowadays(Dont know are they talking which year 2011 or 2012) it is dropped 145g/km – as a result of investing €1.2 billion ($A1.5bn), and would meet the EU legislative targets for 2015.(Goauto.com, BMW chief) "The EU fleet average target of 130g CO2 per km will be phased in between 2012 and 2015. In 2012, an average of 65% of each manufacturer's newly registered cars must comply with the limit value curve set by the legislation. This will rise to 75% in 2013, 80% in 2014, and 100% from 2015 onwards. If the average CO2 emissions of a manufacturer's fleet exceed its limit value in any year from 2012, the manufacturer has to pay an excess emissions premium for each car registered. This premium amounts to €5 for the first g/km of exceedance, €15 for the second g/km, €25 for the third g/km, and €95 for each subsequent g/km. From 2019, the cost will be €95 from the first gram of exceedance onwards. http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies" What we learn? Maybe we must live with electric steering like Chris Harris says. Still I think there is room for real drivers car, NA car to enthusias, but platform must be light(low emissions) 1300-1400kg, M2 3.0L I6 NA (3.4L Cayman 223g/km)engine whith around 315bhp/7500rpm and 150kg lighter than std. model(only Na engine save 30-50kg), made only 2000-3000 cars and they not rise the emission average a lot. Price little higher than std. M2. Someone would say, cost too much to development totally new engine. No, it not cost, S14 block is also used 2002ti, so it´s easy to do NA engine using N55 block. If I remember rigth 997 turbo and 997 GT3 share same block and these cars not producted much, maybe 5000-8000. Amen. Last edited by Tåst; 05-05-2013 at 05:13 AM.. |
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05-05-2013, 07:44 AM | #75 |
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No big surprise that electric steering is coming from M just as has been widely rumored and predicted. I also expect we will see AWD M passenger cars eventually, at least offered as an option, even though it undoes 100+ lbs of painstaking weight loss effort.
There is a lot of doom in gloom response in this thread but I actually see a number of things to be optimistic about in what this gentleman said. Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like we could see a ~600hp, ~8000RPM I6 engine from M by the time the "G generation" rolls in. And a very lightweight car to put it in. Impossible? I guess we'll see. In the meantime the intrigue only builds. Clearly they have some twists coming for the S55 engine and F8x chassis. "We will surprise you" is what we've heard in the past. Based on how low the expectations are that I hear people putting on this car, I'd say this will be the case. |
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05-05-2013, 09:43 AM | #76 | |
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05-05-2013, 10:11 AM | #77 | |
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To begin with, a 0.3L/100km amounts to savings of $86 a year. (15,000 mi/year, 18 mpg, $4.50 /gal avg) BMW wants their customers to stop complaining about electric steering and, instead, join them in obsessing over $86 a year? I know, I know, if you multiply this by x million cars ........ |
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05-05-2013, 10:12 AM | #78 |
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05-05-2013, 03:53 PM | #79 |
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Looks like the M brand is officially dead.
Electric steering, turbos, and just a tuned up 3 series engine........ Also I dont get how some of you are saying it will be "at least 450 hp stock" when every other piece of information says otherwise. |
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05-05-2013, 07:26 PM | #80 |
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Yawn. It seems most used-E92 M3 buyers are hoping the F80 is a failure. The envy is utterly transparent.
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05-05-2013, 10:44 PM | #82 |
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05-06-2013, 01:04 AM | #83 | |
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Even on my wife's F30, I quickly get over the lack of heft and appreciate the hell out of how precise the steering is. Can't complain. It's the future. Get on board, or keep your old car and keep on grumbling.
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05-06-2013, 09:49 AM | #84 | |
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Our competitors stretch the horsepower war because they are only interested in the numbers, there is more , a lot more to a performance car than just the numbers. Numbers might entice but for M the same thing matters over and over and that is progress , progress in balance , progress in dynamics , progress in precision. The benchmark for the M3 and M4 electric steering is the car that has cracked it and that is the Porsche 911 991 series, and that is the level the M developed and engineered electric steering rack are working to so that overall driver communication is not lost. The engine may be based on an N55 but it has been extensively reworked for application on an M vehicle and there will effectively be three M models receiving this engine along with their respective variants - M3 , M4 and X4M. A three cylinder BMW might sound unthinkable but it is very much a reality. Although nothing is final there could be an M Performance variant of the forthcoming BMW City Compact FWD car or even a high performance MINI. As per the current M3 Coupe. The production allocations for the final models are sold and that means that dealers would have bought the allocation slots when given the final announcement for the last production units. It is now up to them to find the last customers.
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05-06-2013, 10:23 AM | #86 |
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^^
Is there any chance that the ///M version of the b38 would see duty in a RWD car? ~300hp, RWD, and less weight up front sound like a good combination to me! |
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05-06-2013, 03:15 PM | #87 | |
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but almost every single review of the 911 has mentioned that the steering is not as good as it used to be F30 I have tried, and no, it doesn't compare to the hydraulic one in the E90/92
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05-06-2013, 03:21 PM | #88 | |
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they are not always the same. if Porsche decided to launch a 4 cyl 911 they will sell more, and someone like you, will think that they are successful but soon enough, the former buyers of the 6cyl won't buy it anymore since it's gone down-market, and they will move on. the M brand was successful with the real driver as its market audience now its focus is the people that just want to show off the M badge (china being a key example) and soon enough you will realize that this is a fickle bunch. and once they move on to the latest and greatest from another manufacturer you will find you also lost the sales to the real drivers that used to buy your products that is what worries me, but I think BMW is too busy rolling in the money to think like this. there is such a concept as stretching yourself too thin there used to be 2 or 3 M models now there are a lot more and even more M badged cars
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