09-19-2012, 02:37 PM | #309 | |
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obviously if you drive it like you stole it, it will drink fuel......450hp costs money. But.....IF you wanted to return good figures out of it.....it is not beyond the realms of possiblity to get close to figures for the N55. That is the beauty of Turbo charging.....you get two engines in one converted you yet? .........didn't think so |
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09-19-2012, 02:39 PM | #310 | |
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The S65 V8 is based on the S85 V10. This engine is not shared with any other OEM production BMW model. Even the E39 M5 which had a 4.9 liter V8 (S62) was based on the M62 production V8 found in the 540i/740i/X5. N62 Valvetronic V8 production started after 2005 I believe. So yeah the argument is made that the S65 is in essence an exclusive engine in the BMW realm and the first and last M3 V8
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09-19-2012, 03:01 PM | #311 | |
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Only About 960 1M's were sold in North America. I didn't realize there were that many N54's laying around that they needed to move. |
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09-19-2012, 03:52 PM | #312 | |
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09-19-2012, 05:02 PM | #313 | |
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with only 450 for the UK, 70 for South Africa etc., 7,000 in 16 months doesnt seem right. |
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09-19-2012, 05:38 PM | #314 |
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09-19-2012, 10:14 PM | #317 |
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To all the people that are condemning this engine since it is based on the N55, Just wait and see.
Some amazingly good engines are out there that are based off of mass production engines. For example: BMW S14 > BMW M10 BMW S38 > BMW M88 BMW S50 > BMW M50 BMW S54 > BMW M54 BMW S62 > BMW M62 GM LS7 > GM Gen IV LS (available in everything from corvettes to pickup trucks) GM LS9 > GM Gen IV LS (available in everything from corvettes to pickup trucks) Ford Coyote/Road-Runner > Ford Modular engine (available in everything from mustangs to pickups) Ford Trinity (2013 GT 500 Engine) > Ford Modular engine (available in everything from mustangs to pickups) Basically what I am saying, is that as long as you have a good base to start from, an amazing engine can be made from a run of the mill engine with some changes and tuning. The N54/55 have proven themselves as good blocks to make good power from, if BMW M wants to make a performance version of them they can definitely do it without an issue. One other thing that using an existing engine to build on is, a lot the durability testing of the design is done by the drivers that are running these engines in their 335's, 135's, 535's, Z4's, 1M's, X3's, & X5's day in and day out! |
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09-20-2012, 04:00 PM | #320 | |
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I would love to be privy to the decision making process which ultimately arrived at the n55. |
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09-21-2012, 12:27 PM | #321 | ||
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It absolutely is not the Government(s) that are causing BMW to majorly change engine platforms in M cars. It is higher profit through much higher part commonality. Another poster here made that point and I have argued it extensively in other posts.
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IMHO, the KEY to the new M3 will be throttle response. If this key part of the car is nailed and turbo lag is more or less unnoticeable, the car will be a big winner. I certainly don't like the reduction in redline nor the worse sound, but I'll certainly be able to live with them. As has always been in the past the car WILL best all near competitors. By the way just to qualify... -I don't think the Z06 nor GT-R are really M3 competitors. -I do think the existing 335i and 1M have too much turbo lag for an M car.
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09-21-2012, 12:34 PM | #322 |
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Most people arent bitchin about what the engine is based on, they want a high revving NA V8, period. There must be a reason the Ferrari italia comes with a high revvin NA V8 and not a twin turbo 6 capable of putting down the same power.
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09-21-2012, 01:05 PM | #323 | |
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Ferrari are following tradition, like Porsche still make a rear engined flat 6 911's. Odds on Ferrari bringing out a turbo V8 soon?....very favourable. In the 80's F1 was turbo charged and so too were the top Ferrari's (GTO and F40) You could argue BMW going V8 was a departure from BMW tradition. BMW always 'did' inline engines, and every single 3 series and M3 had an inline. Yes turbo is as much a step change as the S65, but that is to fend off the competition that have gone turbo.Turbo charging is the future, Formula 1 is going back to turbo and so too are just about every engine coming out of Europe. Sticking with NA would be a backward step.....NA is not cool. BMW are just keeping up with the times, which wins over buyers. The new M3 will be a great car, worthy of carrying the M3 badge. Anyone who is an M3 fan will recognise that. |
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09-21-2012, 01:42 PM | #324 | |
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Last edited by US///M3; 09-21-2012 at 01:59 PM.. |
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09-21-2012, 02:14 PM | #325 | |
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Yeah, US is the country of the V8. Always has been. But BMW is made in Europe, and sold worldwide. And of the past 4 generations of M3, only one had a V8. No need to pretend that a V8 belongs in an M3. It doesn't. |
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09-21-2012, 03:56 PM | #326 | |
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BMW's true legacy may lie in N/A engines, but they, like any other profit driven company, must match their company's vision with the international automotive zeitgeist. no matter what, i doubt they will disappoint us...especially with the 991 being so sweet... |
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09-21-2012, 04:18 PM | #327 |
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Long term Ferrari are also going to go FI (most likely turbo) for some production sports cars. However, they are waiting until they have the engineering and technology to do something very novel and to be much less (if at all) affected by the typical turbo disadvantages of lower redlines and turbo lag. If the next M3 has an electric compressor they may beat Ferrari to the punch on that regard. That being said Ferrari have been able to substantially increase power, redline and fuel efficiency while maintaining their V8s and V12s. The major improvements are from direct injection. That would have been the only way to go if BMW M were to keep the V8 for the M3. It would have been a great solution but it simply did not offer them enough profit. I guess we should not be surprised the Ferrari place emotion and character of their engine above cost but BMW do the opposite. BMW is a changin'...
All of this inane discussion of the cylinder count or configuration (I vs. V) is entirely irrelevant. The I6 has its BMW and BMW M heritage but every generation of M engines have also enjoyed a higher redline and more specific output (power per liter) as well as improved shapes of the power and torque curves. Again the things of consequence that actually matter are these same things, redline, turbo lag, power delivery characteristics.
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09-21-2012, 05:30 PM | #328 | |
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And of the past 4 generations of M3's none had a turbocharged engine.No need to pretend that a turbocharged engine belongs in an M3,it doesnt. I heard some people say that the F30 328i handles better than its 335i sibling,mainly because of the better weight distribution. So the shorter V8 would have transfered more weight toward the back. The most successful M3 in sports racing has the shorter block 4,not the inline 6. |
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09-21-2012, 05:52 PM | #329 |
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Let's chuck some displacement at it, Bubba. Talk about clueless....
Last edited by Carl L; 09-21-2012 at 06:00 PM.. |
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09-21-2012, 06:08 PM | #330 | |
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Anyhow, I'd bet good money the raft of changes M have planned for the N55 will ensure it doesn't disappoint. The 4.4TT is just fantastic, reminds me of a big brother to my sold in 05 996TT but with (practically)no lag. Last edited by Carl L; 09-21-2012 at 06:15 PM.. |
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