M4 GTS Tested by Jeremy Clarkson on The Grand Tour

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It would make total sense to me. Autos and DCT's just don't engage me.

Would be neat if BMW made a wingless M4 GTS and also took out the roll cage and tuned the aero (splitter / diffuser) while giving it a manual. Would be similar to what Porsche did to the GT3RS-->911R. They could name it the M4-R

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It would make total sense to me. Autos and DCT's just don't engage me.

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Would be neat if BMW made a wingless M4 GTS and also took out the roll cage and tuned the aero (splitter / diffuser) while giving it a manual. Would be similar to what Porsche did to the GT3RS-->911R. They could name it the M4-R

I would race you to the dealership for that one.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Would be neat if BMW made a wingless M4 GTS and also took out the roll cage and tuned the aero (splitter / diffuser) while giving it a manual. Would be similar to what Porsche did to the GT3RS-->911R. They could name it the M4-R

...or M4 CS

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

While he might be a little too enamored with the GTS, Captain ain't a bad driver. Have you seen his 'ring lap vids?

This I definitely agree with. Assuming it his him in the videos.

There is a lot of talk in this thread about people being jealous because they can't afford xyz car. Not me, but the one thing I am jealous of is the access and time that some people get to these tracks.

But, nothing wrong with being a family man now as it is great, but someday I'll get my turn at being a track rat. Hopefully I'm not too old by then.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It would make total sense to me. Autos and DCT's just don't engage me.

That's because they engage the clutch for you Agreed!

[cwhands]

Surprised how many of you don't like Clarkson.

Him and his cohorts would be "unwatchable" if they praised every car they drove. That would be utter BS. He loved the M2. Considering the price tag, the GTS was a let down for him.

The comments about "I value the opinion of actual owners" are lost. Actual owners will surely have a bias based on the money they had to spend. You always want to tell yourself that your hard earned cash is well spent. Clarkson has a lot more to compare it to - the guy has the opportunity to pretty much drive everything under the sun. Doesn't matter if it's slow, fast, track-oriented, etc. He has that opportunity. Shouldn't we all be so lucky.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by cwhands

Surprised how many of you don't like Clarkson.

Him and his cohorts would be "unwatchable" if they praised every car they drove. That would be utter BS. He loved the M2. Considering the price tag, the GTS was a let down for him.

The comments about "I value the opinion of actual owners" are lost. Actual owners will surely have a bias based on the money they had to spend. You always want to tell yourself that your hard earned cash is well spent. Clarkson has a lot more to compare it to - the guy has the opportunity to pretty much drive everything under the sun. Doesn't matter if it's slow, fast, track-oriented, etc. He has that opportunity. Shouldn't we all be so lucky.

Spend much time on this forum?? The whiners, nay-sayers, belly achers, complainers, etc. far outweigh the praisers in here. Most the threads in here are about what BMW did wrong in building the F8X and how they have lost their way and how they can't even put the radio buttons on the proper side of the steering wheel.

Clarkson's bashing of the M4 GTS was not nearly as bad as what the F8X has received in this forum or the GTS has received in this thread.

[ilGalante]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Would be neat if BMW made a wingless M4 GTS and also took out the roll cage and tuned the aero (splitter / diffuser) while giving it a manual. Would be similar to what Porsche did to the GT3RS-->911R. They could name it the M4-R

Agreed!!!

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Well remember Clarkson and the drive car at 4kg dowforce setting, not to strange he feel the car lack grip, very much so in the wet.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think you might be putting a bit too much emphasis on the aero settings. I remember reading you mentioned the rear wing at full tilt provides 40kg of downforce at 200km/h. Most tracks dont have many 200km/h corners. I'd say the majority of corners at most tracks are in the 100-150km/h range. Lift/downforce varies with the square of speed, so that means the rear wing provides 10~20kg of downforce at those speeds. Every bit helps, but that will not make a night-and-day difference in perceived handling IMO. That is less than the weight of a full tank of fuel.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Well remember Clarkson and the drive car at 4kg dowforce setting, not to strange he feel the car lack grip, very much so in the wet.

You might want to re-read my post...

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Hold your horses my friend, motortrend first of all do not know how to launch a GTS. They speak out loud how the car keep spinning on launch controll. Thing is on cup tire you can not just launch a 600nm front engine GTS. Well if you do, as aparently they did, you spinn the whole way. They tell thats what happend. We see 0-200 time, hell yes we now know they just launch. Thing is, cup tire is more slippery than normal street tire if COLD, If motortrend know this times would be better.

In drag race, a rear engine GT3 handle cold cup tire better from start at accelerating due to weight over tires.

600nm front engine, no god on cold Cup tire on launch.

If to launch a GTS on hot CUP TIRE, it will not spinn that much as motortrend tell. Then it will be same same 0-200 km as 991 GT3. These things tell us motortrend are not that all out professional. SPORT AUTO launch GTS 0-200 dead on same time as they launch 991 GT3! You think about that!

Also, motortrend drove GTS in high street setting in figure 8 lap, car is high and soft and roll and pitch, also it the got less aggressive camber and toe settings, hardly best for figure 8 lap. Other than that GTS is on par with most supercars in many tests.

You are in charge of what you pay attention to, I dont care. Test will differ, I pay attention to propper euro test. SPORT AUTO is higly rated, but what do you care. Anyway The big difference between you and me is I also drive a GTS hence I got a bit more info real hand in to the blender/mixer. Hence I come to different conclusion than you. I know a GTS will not spin tires on warm cup tires at launch. You dont know anything really? You base all on others info. What about to get a own opinion before to swallow what ever...

Originally Posted by minn19

So to summarize what you are saying, Harris, Clarkson and their very experienced crews (probably with help and guidance from BMW) don't know how to set it up correctly. And when it is set up right, such as during Motor Trend's Best Driver Car test, Randy Pobst wasn't a good enough driver to get the most out of the GTS. Did I get this right?

If so, I have a very hard time believing all of this to be true.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Could do that. Rear wing never provide Max 40kg full tillt. Front splitter is 40 kg fullt extended at 200km/ as I remember. Could get you the right nr. Have you driven the GTS among the different settings? It is very big difference among them settings how car drive. I only mention this. I rain its big big difference, car is very lose in rear and understeery front if not Max aero. I did go tru this , sorry but to many mag story tellers have not in their adrenaline flowing 20min or what, 40min, or 5 laps at..

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You might want to re-read my post...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

SPORT AUTO launch GTS 0-200 dead on same time as they launch 991 GT3!

So if we apply the same logic that was only because SPORT AUTO doesn't know how to launch a 991 GT3.

Given the variance in experiences, there are only 3 possibilities here:

(1.) The M4 GTS is a very finicky car to set up
The 'I couldn't get her number because she's definitely a lesbian' theory

(2.) People who love the GTS know how set it up right, everyone else is an idiot
The 'she's only a lesbian because she's never been with me' theory

(3.) The GTS is a good, but not great car
The 'if you're willing to spend every Sunday afternoon in a suit at a jazz brunch, then she's great' theory

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Haha, how Old are you man. My chanal is only me. Thats the first time I ever hear anything that stupid. Who in their right mind would ever put up a Chanel and lay out their videos if anybody else drove.

You check my GT4 video(Nur and SPA) and GTS video and you see me as my visor on helmet is up( second lap GT4 and 1 lap out of Parking pit Nur)

You come and see me at Nur in spring and you see its me. I am not accually unknown you see, many know me from Nurburgring way back. Haha you funny, I take you for a lap when ever on Nur.

Originally Posted by minn19

This I definitely agree with. Assuming it his him in the videos.

There is a lot of talk in this thread about people being jealous because they can't afford xyz car. Not me, but the one thing I am jealous of is the access and time that some people get to these tracks.

But, nothing wrong with being a family man now as it is great, but someday I'll get my turn at being a track rat. Hopefully I'm not too old by then.

[M4_GTS]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Haha, how Old are you man. My chanal is only me. Thats the first time I ever hear anything that stupid. Who in their right mind would ever put up a Chanel and lay out their videos if anybody else drove.

You check my GT4 video(Nur and SPA) and GTS video and you see me as my visor on helmet is up( second lap GT4 and 1 lap out of Parking pit Nur)

You come and see me at Nur in spring and you see its me. I am not accually unknown you see, many know me from Nurburgring way back. Haha you funny, I take you for a lap when ever on Nur.

you tell them captain while I sit back and enjoy the show

[cwhands]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Spend much time on this forum?? The whiners, nay-sayers, belly achers, complainers, etc. far outweigh the praisers in here. Most the threads in here are about what BMW did wrong in building the F8X and how they have lost their way and how they can't even put the radio buttons on the proper side of the steering wheel.

Clarkson's bashing of the M4 GTS was not nearly as bad as what the F8X has received in this forum or the GTS has received in this thread.

I'm sorry, did I strike a nerve? Where's your little ?

I don't have the time to analyze every post ever made, but then again, my initial post has nothing to do with that whatsoever.

I'll work on spending more time here. I think you should have paid more attention to what I said after the statement you put in bold. You always want to tell yourself that your hard earned cash is money well spent Point being, if you spent money on something and someone else bashes it, you'd likely feel inclined to defend your purchase.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

No, your logic is not logic. Sport auto launch GT3 just as well as most others launch 991 GT3. Not same on motortrend, they are the only one to launch a GTS that bad, like same a M4 vanilla. Also motortrend got GTS to lap not that much faster than vanila M4 at their track. The rest out in euro totaly auto lap vanila M4 with GTS.

Yes, now you getting there, GTS is no turn key car-it will vary much in how it preform, hence adjusable 3way KW suspension. You accually need to get the tools out, take time and read the fucking manual...you know like a racecar🤔😂

You think all them adrenaline pumped car mag guys can even find the ESC button in their 20min stint? Or get to understand the M power buttons, sure they might just do that. But to lower car to track setting if they get it deliverd in street, hel no. And full aero front is not allowed to drive on street, hence BMW deliver test car splitter Not out as no allowed. Not all get down with them tools, they dont even know how to.

Why just not try to understand its as I say, I drove the car more than you, more than any car mag. Its no turn key car, to you and the internet warriors that not even driven it, it will not drive well out of the Box.(very much depending on how it sit,setup)

Other cars will do so, turn key and do well what ever, AMG GT-S, GT3 etc as they are not as tunable in stock form. God or bad, for me as a entusiast I look to buy just that car that is not turn key car. Bur please grow up and understand GTS is more depending on set up than vanila M4, or MB AMG GT-S and most other cars.

Its not a downside for us 700 owners, more so for you who only read a magazine!

The whole point to be able to as time go by, lern car more and more, set up to different driverstyle. Rather than having a common turn key car, I get bored. In that common no adjuable car in the end I need to adjust to car. In GTS, other way, car can be adjusted to my individual aggressive driverstyle. As of now I just try BMW 2 preferd setting that go with street or track mode.(hence very easy to click chassi to less preforming, as these BMW setting is also in ways 2 overal god compromise settings that will do god for all drivers) I can not say I got the know how to take it furher, absolutly not. But I know those how can.

But let me tell you that I next spring very much look forward to let Tom Schirmer motorsport down at Nurburgring set it perfectly to my liking and driverstyle. I always drive the short tight line around track, and he can set and tune these cars to perfection. I can Not do that with my vanila 991 GT3 Gen2(not that I know of today anyway, most likely it will not get a adjustable chassi or aero)

Originally Posted by GrussGott

So if we apply the same logic that was only because SPORT AUTO doesn't know how to launch a 991 GT3.

Given the variance in experiences, there are only 3 possibilities here:

(1.) The M4 GTS is a very finicky car to set up
The 'I couldn't get her number because she's definitely a lesbian' theory

(2.) People who love the GTS know how set it up right, everyone else is an idiot
The 'she's only a lesbian because she's never been with me' theory

(3.) The GTS is a good, but not great car
The 'if you're willing to spend every Sunday afternoon in a suit at a jazz brunch, then she's great' theory

[VCP]

Again. Speaks volumes Having and tracking the GTS reminds me of my Motocross years. Always a setup required, no push button BS. You must have basic, at the least, knowledge of suspension actions and what all those little clicks do. Small percentage get this.

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Why just not try to understand its as I say, I drove the car more than you, more than any car mag. Its no turn key car, to you and the internet warriors that not even driven it, it will not drive well out of the Box.(very much depending on how it sit,setup)

Other cars will do so, turn key and do well what ever, AMG GT-S, GT3 etc as they are not as tunable in stock form. God or bad, for me as a entusiast I look to buy just that car that is not turn key car. Bur please grow up and understand GTS is more depending on set up than vanila M4, or MB AMG GT-S and most other cars.

Its not a downside for us 700 owners, more so for you who only read a magazine!

)

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Could do that. Rear wing never provide Max 40kg full tillt. Front splitter is 40 kg fullt extended at 200km/ as I remember. Could get you the right nr. Have you driven the GTS among the different settings? It is very big difference among them settings how car drive. I only mention this. I rain its big big difference, car is very lose in rear and understeery front if not Max aero. I did go tru this , sorry but to many mag story tellers have not in their adrenaline flowing 20min or what, 40min, or 5 laps at..

According to this C&D article, the rear wing at full tilt and the fully extended front splitter provide 210lb and 63lb of downforce respectively at 186mph.

Doing the math for the rear wing, this equates to ~42kg at 200km/h. Pretty much bang on your original quote.

This means ~24kg at 150km/h and ~11kg at 100km/h. Call me Thomas, but I really struggle to believe this makes a night-and-day difference on the tighter tracks usually used in magazine tests (the SA/AMS 'Ring Supertest is a bit of an exception).

[VCP]

I tried all settings at The Ridge Motorsports park with a 1st corner speed up to 200kmhr. Only slight lightness felt in rear under braking with wing at street setting. It was a marginal difference than in full track but I feel it got to speed quicker on the long straight in Street setting so only lap times will tell.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

According to this C&D article, the rear wing at full tilt and the fully extended front splitter provide 210lb and 63lb of downforce respectively at 186mph.

Doing the math for the rear wing, this equates to ~42kg at 200km/h. Pretty much bang on your original statement.

This means ~24kg at 150km/h and ~11kg at 100km/h. Call me Thomas, but I really struggle to believe this makes a night-and-day difference on the tighter tracks used in magazine tests (save the SA/AMS 'Ring Supertest).

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Hold your horses my friend, motortrend first of all do not know how to launch a GTS. They speak out loud how the car keep spinning on launch controll. Thing is on cup tire you can not just launch a 600nm front engine GTS. Well if you do, as aparently they did, you spinn the whole way. They tell thats what happend. We see 0-200 time, hell yes we now know they just launch. Thing is, cup tire is more slippery than normal street tire if COLD, If motortrend know this times would be better.

In drag race, a rear engine GT3 handle cold cup tire better from start at accelerating due to weight over tires.

600nm front engine, no god on cold Cup tire on launch.

If to launch a GTS on hot CUP TIRE, it will not spinn that much as motortrend tell. Then it will be same same 0-200 km as 991 GT3. These things tell us motortrend are not that all out professional. SPORT AUTO launch GTS 0-200 dead on same time as they launch 991 GT3! You think about that!

Also, motortrend drove GTS in high street setting in figure 8 lap, car is high and soft and roll and pitch, also it the got less aggressive camber and toe settings, hardly best for figure 8 lap. Other than that GTS is on par with most supercars in many tests.

You are in charge of what you pay attention to, I dont care. Test will differ, I pay attention to propper euro test. SPORT AUTO is higly rated, but what do you care. Anyway The big difference between you and me is I also drive a GTS hence I got a bit more info real hand in to the blender/mixer. Hence I come to different conclusion than you. I know a GTS will not spin tires on warm cup tires at launch. You dont know anything really? You base all on others info. What about to get a own opinion before to swallow what ever...

Ok, MT is one, but you doubt all of the others that have a negative view of GTS. I disagree that MT doesn't know how to launch a car. Especially when you watch the outtakes to see how many times they launched them to make sure it was a fair race. I'm pretty sure they were warm enough after multiple launches.

You may disagree with them, but to flat out call them unprofessional and that they don't know what they are doing is another thing.

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Haha, how Old are you man. My chanal is only me. Thats the first time I ever hear anything that stupid. Who in their right mind would ever put up a Chanel and lay out their videos if anybody else drove.

You check my GT4 video(Nur and SPA) and GTS video and you see me as my visor on helmet is up( second lap GT4 and 1 lap out of Parking pit Nur)

You come and see me at Nur in spring and you see its me. I am not accually unknown you see, many know me from Nurburgring way back. Haha you funny, I take you for a lap when ever on Nur.

It's called a joke, I've been to Germany a couple of times and I know they know what that is. So your turn to hold your horses.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VCP

I tried all settings at The Ridge Motorsports park with a 1st corner speed up to 200kmhr. Only slight lightness felt in rear under braking with wing at street setting. It was a marginal difference than in full track but I feel it got to speed quicker on the long straight in Street setting so only lap times will tell.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It makes sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even at the Ridge, cornering speeds are well below 125mph (200km/h), even in turn-1.