PSA: VF Engineering Hex Tune Spun Crank Hub

[ctgeorge]

*Disclaimer

This is not a “VF Engineering bashing” post. Many will find what I say common knowledge. I just believe my experience should be shared with the community to have others understand the consequences of running any aftermarket tune.

Last winter I decided to get the HF Hex Stage 1 tune installed by Rogue Engineering in NY. This was done via the bench flash process. A week later VF released the newer flash process which no longer required the DME to be removed. I can’t blame VF, but I was disappointed that this wasn’t relayed to me prior to having to pay extra to remove the DME. Rogue Dynoed the car post tune, it gained an impressive 50hp and 100tq. What I found strange was the pronounced torque hump. This is what makes this tune seem so powerful as all the torque comes on at 2k to 3k rpms. As I found later this is not the best way to deliver this power on the S55 platform.



I then drove the car sparingly during the winter (roughly 400 miles) as I have another car for winter use. Spring came and I started to take the car out. The power was insane. It was then time to test it out at the track, a decision I would regret. Roughly seven minutes into my second run the engine just died, with a “drivetrain malfunction” message on the screen.

Had the car towed to my dealer, flashed back to stock (which I found is waste of time as it doesn’t lock the DME) Just a quick note here. Anyone who thinks BMW won’t detect your tune if you flash back to stock is naïve. The lack of FASTA data sets off the red flag. It’s just as bad as leaving your tune in place. So if your tuned and you try to get warranty work done that requires Corporate approval your fucked, period.

My Dealer was then nice enough to re-time the car and replace the crank hub and bolt free of charge. The process took almost a month but I was glad to have the car back. The only problem was now I had a slightly rough idle. It was only present when sitting still. But no notice of it while driving. Shop Forman mentioned I most likely had one of a few slightly bent valves. I wasn’t happy to hear this but the car was fine for the time being and I planned on paying out of pocket to get the top end rebuilt later this season. Another thing to note. Foreman stated the tips of my plugs where white which signifies the engine running very lean. I recomend anyone with this VF tune check their plugs as running lean will significantly lessen the engine’s life expectancy.

It was a few weeks later I noticed a not so nice sound coming from the engine bay. Under further investigation, I saw the accessory tensioner pulley dangling loose. Figured maybe they forgot to tighten it fully… It was found that the Crank Pully aka Harmonic dampener was wobbling. Dealer decided to replace it, the hub bolt and crank seal as it was shown to be leaking oil. That didn’t fix the issue as it was then found that where the hub mates with the crank was seriously damaged, also causing ovaling of the opening of the bed plate.

In short, a new engine is in order, at the cost of around 30k and BMW will not be covering it, nor should they.



I’m not saying all tunes will cause your crank bolt to loosen, but in my case this VF Hex tune was the contributing factor for my engine failure. VF Engineering makes fantastic supercharger systems etc, but I can’t say I’ll consider their software tuning options on any of my future cars.

[Clark_Kent]

Thanks for sharing and I appreciate your candor. I'm certain it won't be long before your experience is discredited with, "I've tracked my car on the VF tune over two dozen sessions with not one issue!"

Btw, Is this car DCT or 6MT?

[ctgeorge]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Thanks for sharing and I appreciate your candor. I'm certain it won't be long before your experience is discredited with, "I've tracked my car on the VF tune over two dozen sessions with not one issue!"

Btw, Is this car DCT or 6MT?

DTC.

I'm not concerned about other's experiences. Just wanted to share mine. Is what it is.

[hatepotholez]

dct

[DataNerd]

Wow that is unfortunate.

30k for a new motor? 😲 Time to drop a supercharged LS1 in it? 😆

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with the community and sorry to hear it!

[ctgeorge]

Originally Posted by hatepotholez

dct

Lol, thanks for the correction, been dealing with MS DTC SQL connection issues at work all week. Have that on the brain right now.

[guess2098]

From your paper work it looks like you have a 2016 model but could you be specific when do you purchase the car. Thanks

[FriedPiston]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP. A built engine from Carbahn cost around $10-13k, maybe $15-16k shipped. I would suggest going this route over a new stock engine for $30k.

It's tough to pin the blame on the tune knowing that spun crank hubs are notorious on MY15 and MY16 (pre-ZCP) models. You could've easily been running a completely different tune and still reach the same engine failure. It's hard to tell what the tune is doing without access to data logging functionality.

This is one of the main reasons why I strongly favor tuning platforms that offer data logging, because there's no such thing as true "set it and forget it" when it comes to EFI tuning, especially with forced induction.

It sucks that BMW NA won't cover the damage, but perhaps you and all others who've had to deal with this issue can get together and put the pressure on BMW for the poor crank hub design...

[Arcades]

Thank you for the heads up.

I agree with nars on this. 2015 and 2016 seems to be where most of the noted crank hub issues popped up on the forums. I don't think it has much to do with your tune exactly, so long as you run anything over what BMW thinks the engine can handle consistently it is probably going to happen.

I'm more surprised your dealer covered as much as it did up until they realized you need another engine basically. Since, from your post they seem to be on the up and up regarding your tune (or at least they know).

Good luck on what ends up happening though.

[Wmf80]

Any 18’ having this issue ?

[ctgeorge]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP. A built engine from Carbahn cost around $10-13k, maybe $15-16k shipped. I would suggest going this route over a new stock engine for $30k.

I was very tempted to go that route. But being in CT, that would involve getting a third party shop to remove the engine, crate it up then ship to the Bay Area. Then is if any warranty work was required on the engine I'd have to remove it and ship out West again. It would be a no-brainer if they were local.

Also, the 14-15k quote from Carbahn doesn't include a new Crank and Bed Plate. Either way, it would cost less than what a new OEM one costs and vastly more reliable. I'm just fortunate to have the funds to afford one and the service dept at my Dealer is fantastic. Sucks either way though.

[VF-Engineering]

It’s definitely an unfortunate situation, and while we understand the
intention of your “PSA”, we can’t help but feel (based on the thread
title and your assertion regarding torque delivery) that you are
intentionally targeting our brand in an unjust manner.



Just to be fully transparent, when the OP contacted us just after the
diagnosis of a spun crank hub by his dealership, he mentioned that
he wouldn’t be posting anything on the forums since he thought it
wouldn’t be fair to single us out; to which we responded right away
that he is absolutely welcome to post about his own situation as it’s
never our intention to hide or manipulate genuine user experiences,
whether they be good or bad.



While this is the absolute first reported issue of a spun crank hub on
a HEX Tuned vehicle since we began tuning the S55 roughly 3 years
ago, every responsible tuner knows that there’s always the chance
of a vehicle having a hardware failure with their software present.

And even though we feel this is little more than happenstance, we
also understand that there’s no consolation in knowing that it’s a
1-in-400+ chance when you’re the ONE in that ratio.



We are more than happy to entertain an open minded discussion and
just ask that if you’re going to make direct claims and comparisons,
that you share your sources and provide factual data that can be
viewed objectively.

[ptper]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

...every responsible tuner knows that there’s always the chance
of a vehicle having a hardware failure with their software present.

So, you're saying the tune had nothing to do with the crank hub failure.

[milk242]

I think he’s saying that any tune could have caused this issue.

[hatepotholez]

Originally Posted by ctgeorge

Lol, thanks for the correction, been dealing with MS DTC SQL connection issues at work all week. Have that on the brain right now.

lol u beat me to the punch.

[cryptz]

You really cannot blame the tune for this, its happened to too many cars, including stock. I am saving up for the maxpsi hub before i go forward with bm3. I have a 2015, this issue def concerns me.

[drgmt]

It's refreshing to see someone take responsibility for modding their car.

A few questions

1. What was the purpose of flashing back to stock before the visit if you had no intention of making a claim under warranty?
2. Did the dealer run Diagnostics on the car stock and see the tune ?

Given that no one can prove the mechanism for this failure, it's impossible to know whether Torque distribution is the key factor.


Bottom line is, if you think you are safe with any tune you are kidding yourself. They all carry very similar risks. The more power you run the greater the risk.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by cryptz

You really cannot blame the tune for this, its happened to too many cars, including stock. I am saving up for the maxpsi hub before i go forward with bm3. I have a 2015, this issue def concerns me.

Problem is, there is no proof these updated hubs work.

[clutchdj]

Terrible. Have you considered a rebuild/second opinion? Do you really need a completely new engine.

[Bluer2]

now I'm kinda glad I have this weak ass Dinan stage 3 on my 2015. Some of you guys running E-85 on BM3 making 600whp on the stock engine have some big cojones.

[cryptz]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Problem is, there is no proof these updated hubs work.

maxpsi seems to have gone from spinning their hub every track visit to not at all.. That isnt to say their design will definitely last 10 years without issue, but it seems to be holding up much better than the stock one..

[jwoo]

OP, what year do you have? Do you have the supposedly new bed plate design? Also, did it spin when using the kick down feature? Good to see dealer at least retime and replace your crank hub bolt out of warranty.