991 Carrera S vs M4

[mithiral67]

First, the pdk feels faster as it has a lower gearing than the manual.

Second, I have never owned an auto until i picked up my Cayman GTS two weeks ago. I can say I havent missed the manual once. The PDK has redefined driving an auto for me. I am not sure if its because the PDK is that good or if I was posing as a manual driver for 18 years.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by ncM

In practice on street, maybe. In "sport plus" pdk kept the engine in optimal power band (with lots of wonderful burbles, etc) at high rpm. To duplicate that with 7mt, I think you'd have to do a lot of shifting and be willing to ride around at high rpm all the time.

So, what you are saying is that you have to know how to drive?

Just kidding.

The 991 C4S cabriolet 7sp manual is slower than the F80 M3. Have personally verified. (Surprisingly, the E90 M3 with akrapovic and tune was also slightly faster than the C4S 7spd cab) The F80 destroys the E90 as well.

I was shocked at how much slower my C4S cabrio was than my C2S PDK.

[lihailihai]

Hey everyone, Im new to this forum

Personally, I have been a Porsche geek since little.
I am though, lucky enough to own the brand new M4, M3, M5 and M6. All loaded and armed to the teeth.

On the other side, I own 991 Carrera S, 991 Turbo s, and 991 GT3 (no it didn't catch fire)

I live in urban Jakarta. A lot of traffic jams, lots of pot holes where i live, high ramps, and I have 2 sisters to ferry along everywhere.

On weekends, I usually bring all my owned cars to Sentul Circuit.

My review is this.

Porsche is a Sportscar, make no mistake

BMW Ms are not pure sport car. Its more to the luxury performance side

The verdict:
1. 991 Carrera S (only loaded with luxury option) vs BMW M3 (2013) and M4(2014) both loaded with competition packs etc. But still kept to road legal standards.

On a straight line. I am sorry to say honestly that the M3 doesn't hold a candle against both M4 or the Porsche.
M4 is just a tad slower than the Carrera.

M3 and M4 have more speed in 4th gear from 80 to 120 KMH but it is not enough to catch up at all.

On track. Again the Porsche have better lap times. Surprisingly M3 is faster than the M4 on track. (i own a racing licence similar to Junior F1 racers)
However, I would NEVER and I repeat NEVER bring a Porsche for daily use. The backseat is suitable to punish children only. Porsche is quite comfortable for 2 people. more than 2 is Hell.
The BMW, both M3 and M4 are like heaven compared to Porsche for daily use. They are soft, they have proper speed, the backseat is usable even for adults.
Ramps are no problem for both. Potholes are detrimental to Porsche but not for BMW.

So conclusively, Porsche is for performance and track. M3 and M4 for daily usage and to smoke some merc owners in speedways. Sorry BMW fans, I am to.


2. 991 Turbo s vs M5 and M6 Competition pack
Straight to it, straight line its no contest really. Track also are no contest for the 991 turbo.
HOWEVER, M5 and M6 are usable in roads. the Turbo is not, at all.
Above 200KMH, the M5 and M6 starts to catch up. But up to the 1KM mark, they are still quite some distance away from the turbo.

Track times are ludicrous. M5 and M6 smoked. Its not even close.
But, throughout the day, I would rather sit and drive inside one of the Ms than a Porsche. Its just more comfortable.

So.. To summarize

Performance, handling: Porsche, no question. If anyone disagrees, I am willing to pay for your car shipping, passport and ticket to Indonesia and try yourself with me (it would be nice really, not many motor heads in Indonesia)
Accommodations on me.

Comfort, daily use: BMW hands down. Its quiet, its soft in comfort mode, fuel economy is actually 1KML better (WOW). There is more space for everything, and my ass is not sore when i get home. And BMW looks AMAZING.

Money for Product: Although i am a Porsche fan, the BMW is the overall winner here.
The warranty is same, 2 years (in my country anyway) but the service warranty for BMW is 7 YEARS, and that is not a typo.
Porsche is just 2 years. (garbage)

Looks: An overgrown beetle vs the BMW. No contest.

Safety: BMW (duh!).

SO..... Its your pick guys. you want performance? BMW competition pack didn't hold a candle to Porsche. And I'm not cheating nor am I a newbie driver.

BUT. take it from me. I drive daily with my BMW, despite my preference of Porsche, so do the thinking for me .

Cheers (sorry for long post)

[mithiral67]

Hey new guy.

I would happily accept only the free trip (no need to ship my car), but I already agree with you except for I am fine daily driving my porsche

[M4GTS]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

First, the pdk feels faster as it has a lower gearing than the manual.

Only on two of the gears in the PDK; 3rd and 7th.

[M4GTS]

Originally Posted by kitw

I was shocked at how much slower my C4S cabrio was than my C2S PDK.

120Kg and increased drivetrain loss is significant.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by e92V8

Only on two of the gears in the PDK; 3rd and 7th.

From Planet 9

Gear / Manual Ratio (PDK Ratio) / Max Speed Manual (PDK) MPH
1st / 3.31 (3.91) / 49 (42)
2nd / 1.95 (2.29) / 84 (71)
3rd /1.41 (1.65) /116 (99)
4th / 1.13 (1.30) / 144 (125)
5th /.95 (1.08) / 172 (151)
6th / .81 (.88) / 201 (185)
7th / (.62) / (263)





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[mithiral67]

From Porsche

http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/20...Cayman-GTS.pdf

Based on this, its about 17-18% low gearing in 1-3 gear and then tapers from there. But either way, that's a lot more tq at the wheel gear to gear .

[M4GTS]

I thought we were comparing 911 manual vs pdk?

Also, the cayman GTS PDK does not have a 3.25 final drive. It's the same as the 911 at 3.44. My observed top speed in 2nd is an indicated 78 mph.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by e92V8

I thought we were comparing 911 manual vs pdk?

Also, the cayman GTS PDK does not have a 3.25 final drive. It's the same as the 911 at 3.44. My observed top speed in 2nd is an indicated 78 mph.

Ha, sorry, have the cayman on my mind.

That said, the Porsche link I added says a final of 3.89 for the pdk. I have seen discussions on planet 9 showing folks tested speeds and reported 3.44 made more sense when you looked at actual speeds.

I am jealous you are through break in, only at 1200 miles.

[M4GTS]

I've been driving it harder from 500 or so. Not lost a drop of oil and now at 1300 miles. UK manual says nothing about rpm limits...

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by e92V8

I've been driving it harder from 500 or so. Not lost a drop of oil and now at 1300 miles. UK manual says nothing about rpm limits...

That is so odd why we have that and you don't. I did 4,200 until 500 miles, then 5000 to 750 miles, 6000 to 1,000, and now at 6500. I should say F it and go to read line now. 1,200 miles is a lot.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by e92V8

I've been driving it harder from 500 or so. Not lost a drop of oil and now at 1300 miles. UK manual says nothing about rpm limits...

I did the same thing with my Cayman S. Started driving it harder and harder after about 500 mi.

[Romo]

Well, I`m picking up my Sapphire Blue Cayman GTS tomorrow, I allready asked about if there are Porker rules concerning how to drive it properly in.

Well in short; there are no rules, just drive it warm, meaning oil temp about 90 degrees Celcius, and just do what this car is made for.