991 Carrera S vs M4

[rick berry]

I love the 991, but beleive it's not as versatile a car as an M3/M4.My M3 goes on trips,to the store, to work and terrorizes back roads. A friend of mine has a 2010 911S. He cannot leave me on any back road. Factor in the large price difference, I'm staying with an M3?M4. Now if a GT3 were the same price......I might have to convert.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by Rated R

Porsche is the most profitable car maker in the world. The most profitable. Think about what that means for someone who buys one of their cars; they're paying the most and receiving the least in return. Of course Porsche owners are going to defend what they buy, but when they step back and think about it they know they paid too much.

You pay an absolute premium for their cars and yet they seem to have a problem honoring their warranty. Lately the way I've been looking at Porsche is that they want to fleece their customers as much as possible and yet don't give a crap about them after the sale.

Ehh "profit" and "value derived by the consumer" are two completely exclusive things. A company can be both business savvy and provide tangible value/benefit to the consumer, or it can make no profit and provide a crappy product. When profit goes up consumer value does not necessarily go down, they do not correlate.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by brianeck

Ehh "profit" and "value derived by the consumer" are two completely exclusive things. A company can be both business savvy and provide tangible value/benefit to the consumer, or it can make no profit and provide a crappy product. When profit goes up consumer value does not necessarily go down, they do not correlate.

How much 'value' would you put on Porsche's stance on warranty? I think they see value in denying it as much as possible.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Rated R

How much 'value' would you put on Porsche's stance on warranty? I think they see value in denying it as much as possible.

I think its naïve to think that porches stance on warranty is any different than BMW or any other manufacturer

dealing with BMW on warranty these days is a nightmare.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Rated R

How much 'value' would you put on Porsche's stance on warranty? I think they see value in denying it as much as possible.

To think a company can remain profitable with such a PR nightmare like not honoring legitimate warranty issues. Stop exaggerating, please. Every car company makes bad calls from time-to-time.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

To think a company can remain profitable with such a PR nightmare like not honoring legitimate warranty issues. Stop exaggerating, please. Every car company makes bad calls from time-to-time.

No exaggeration, two weeks ago received a letter for a class action lawsuit for coolant lines coming loose on my since sold GT3.

No exaggeration, Porsche supplemented the owners manual for all GT3's with a paragraph that details center lock's useful life while tracking. Clearly a pre-emptive to deny warranty if your wheel falls off at the track.

No exaggeration:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...news/130919830

Care to recant?

[48Laws]

Certainly. So, after reading the article, despite the initial legal wrangling, Porsche agreed to fix these cars? What's your point? It's not uncommon for car companies to not send out blank checks to fix problems initially. Fixing every and any car with a snap judgement can set a precedent and is bad business. And they profiled one owner with a 10 year old Porsche. Lol. Great.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Certainly. So, after reading the article, despite the initial legal wrangling, Porsche agreed to fix these cars? What's your point? It's not uncommon for car companies to not send out blank checks to fix problems initially. Fixing every and any car with a snap judgement can set a precedent and is bad business. And they profiled one owner with a 10 year old Porsche. Lol. Great.

Yes they agreed to honor their warranty after class action. Most likely they'll honor the coolant lines with the other class action. But it will take the threat of legal action for them to do so. Of course, not uncommon but not my idea of reputable business either. That's my point. What you may call snap judgement I may call honoring the warranty of a car they sold to someone who worked hard to get it.

I believe the sentiment of honoring warranty on Porsche, Audi, VW vehicles come from the top. I had problems with AOA trying to weasel out of warranty issues on two prior owned Audis as well. Until that changes I'd prefer not to own another VW product. These cars are expensive and their warranty should reflect that.

[48Laws]

Look at it from a business owner's perspective. A faulty grommet or tubing that you outsource is faulty, for example. Your customers return wanting a refund. Aren't you obligated to hold accountable those with whom you purchased said faulty part from or do you simply assume responsibility? Porsche isn't obligated to honor warranty as that term itself is subjective. The Law honors warranty which is why I don't put too much blame with a Porsche. They can only BS for do long and dig there own ditch. If it's a legit warranty issue, it will get repaired.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Look at it from a business owner's perspective. A faulty grommet or tubing that you outsource is faulty, for example. Your customers return wanting a refund. Aren't you obligated to hold accountable those with whom you purchased said faulty part from or do you simply assume responsibility? Porsche isn't obligated to honor warranty as that term itself is subjective. The Law honors warranty which is why I don't put too much blame with a Porsche. They can only BS for do long and dig there own ditch. If it's a legit warranty issue, it will get repaired.

Passing the buck is the term I would use for that. Does it say 'Helmut's Auto Grommets' on the deck lid or does it say 'Porsche'?

[Sedan_Clan]

If I could afford a well optioned 991, I'd go for it. Porsche is the natural progression for ///M owners.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Rated R

Passing the buck is the term I would use for that. Does it say 'Helmut's Auto Grommets' on the deck lid or does it say 'Porsche'?

How is it passing the buck if Porsche ultimately repairs the car?

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by NavidM3E92

It's funny you say that. I feel the same exact way. People think I'm crazy I was considering the new GT3 over an R8. Never cared for Audi.

You're crazy buddy. R8 any day over a 911. I may be biased, but I have owned both a modded 997 C2S and 997TT. R8 is easily superior to both.

[tifosi360]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I got rid of My '11 e92 for a '14 C2. Not an S. I'm not so sure the differences in build quality between the M and porsche are even measurable to be honest. My seat already has a bit of fraying on the leather bolster. Could be a fluke. Other than that...id say I'm willing to pay the premium to own a Porsche and I'm ok with that. It's fantastic..so low to the ground and wide. I also realized that hp isn't everything as this 350 hp feels like 400.

Done the same thing! I went from a 2013 M3 to a 2014 991 Carrera. You just cannot go wrong with either car.

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

You're crazy buddy. R8 any day over a 911. I may be biased, but I have owned both a modded 997 C2S and 997TT. R8 is easily superior to both.

Two each's own

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by NavidM3E92

Two each's own

Have you ever even driven a R8 or 997 C2S/Turbo?

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Have you ever even driven a R8 or 997 C2S/Turbo?

Turbo yes. R8 no. GT3 rode around in.

I like the look of the 991 GT3 more than R8

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by NavidM3E92

Turbo yes. R8 no. GT3 rode around in.

I like the look of the 991 GT3 more than R8

So basically you have zero idea of what it's like driving a R8. I encourage you to go drive one either with a 6MT or the dual clutch before passing judgment on a car you have zero experience with. I like GT3s as much as anyone, but they are at the end of the day not comfy as a daily and to most people can't be distinguished from a base 911 or a Cayman.

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

So basically you have zero idea of what it's like driving a R8. I encourage you to go drive one either with a 6MT or the dual clutch before passing judgment on a car you have zero experience with. I like GT3s as much as anyone, but they are at the end of the day not comfy as a daily and to most people can't be distinguished from a base 911 or a Cayman.

Yes I have zero Idea, and I have zero DESIRE to even drive one.

I keep telling you its not that I dont like the way the R8 drives, I dont like the way it looks. I am more attracted to the 911 body.

The new GT3 is comfortable from what I heard.

[48Laws]

The R8 bridges that exotic gap between a Porsche and a car like the Lambo in my opinion for a relative acceptable price. And this is coming from a guy who owns a 991. The R8 exudes what one would expect an exoctic to be while still being durable enough to drive day-to-day unlike many exoctics. I would pick one over a GT3 simply for it's rather jaw-dropping design.

[Raja Ventureshield]

i have owned a 08 c2s and a 08 M3. While they are both competent cars and have similar numbers on 0-60 and 1/4 miles, they are vastly different in terms of driving dynamics. I know people talk about practicality of the backseats etc. But most people who have these cars also have few other cars for road trips, groceries etc.

While a M3 owners always compare the 911 as a competition, a 911 owner rarely considers a M3 an alternative. Honestly, these are two of the best cars in the segment. If i could get both I would get both and call it a day.

[Raja Ventureshield]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

You're crazy buddy. R8 any day over a 911. I may be biased, but I have owned both a modded 997 C2S and 997TT. R8 is easily superior to both.

Audi R8 is a nice car, i have driven it extensively on the track. I really loved the v10 though. the price tag was way too much out of my budget. The leather and fit and finish on the car is really amazing. The only thing about the r8, i don't like is, it's coming for a redesign soon.