991 Carrera S vs M4

[heart_doctor]

I have a e93 m3 6mt. I drove my friends 2012 porsche 911 black with pdk and all I can say is wow. I still like a manual better but the porsche is amazing. The m3 is a better daily driver though.

[Mr T]

An interesting debate. I sold my 911 (991) last summer and currently own a new C63 AMG Edition 507. Porsche is a much more sophisticated machine but the C63 is blisteringly quick and sounds wonderful. I have an M3 on order for June delivery and my hope is it is somewhere between these two cars in terms of sophistication and performance....let's see. I had an Alpina B3 on loan sometime ago and that was fabulous in terms of comfort and performance but lacked a sharp sporting edge.

[vase330]

I was never a Porsche guy. I thought those 911s looked like frogs and wondered why people are so obsessed with them. Even if I could afford one I would never spend the money on one, its just a car and doesn't even have usable back seat... well that was before I recently drove 911 C4S PDK. That damn thing has now rented space in my mind and refuses to leave.

I was going to order an M3 or M4, but the new designs dont appeal much to me droopy nose and all. I already have a very low millage modded E92. TO whoever said dont drive a 911 youll be ruined, you are right. At first the sales guy was gording me to test drive it and I kept saying I dont have the time and not interested. Then it went from bad to worse when he started telling me the options on the car. Bi-Xenon... I have that on my E92 and it doesn't cost even half the 150K optioned out the car I drove was. It was plain ridiculous it didn't evenb have the LED lights! $250 for the stupid Porsche badge on the wheels of a 911... insane. oh it has adjustable seat.... I said ok please stop because if I have to look at that I dont even want the damn car. E92 is optioned better than a car 5yrs younger and almost X3 the price. Does it drive 3 times better no. Is it 3times better no.

But Ill give it to Posrche, you drive the thing and price consideration just goes out the window and all you can think is, "what do I need to do to get this thing now?" M6, M3, M4...etc VS Porsche C4S. Am sorry, love BMW but am taking the frog please. I don't care how much it costs, just get me the frog.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by trucheli

(orange peel is all over the place on any BMW car

Really? I have never seen those orange peels in any of my 3 past 6er !!!!

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by vase330

M6, M3, M4...etc VS Porsche C4S. Am sorry, love BMW but am taking the frog please. I don't care how much it costs, just get me the frog.

Comparing M6,M3,M4 or any M car with C4S is not apple to apple ......
Especially with M6 since they are not even the same size/weight/power/torque..etc

[Lups]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Comparing M6,M3,M4 or any M car with C4S is not apple to apple ......
Especially with M6 since they are not even the same size/weight/power/torque..etc

Just shut up, and let the expert handle it.

I know I'm pathetic, but Porsches hold no appeal to me. I have eyes, and I need to walk to the well lid garage. Sad, I know.
And yes, I'm very aware how bored I must be to read this whole thread trouhg.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by vase330

I was never a Porsche guy. I thought those 911s looked like frogs and wondered why people are so obsessed with them. Even if I could afford one I would never spend the money on one, its just a car and doesn't even have usable back seat... well that was before I recently drove 911 C4S PDK. That damn thing has now rented space in my mind and refuses to leave.

I was going to order an M3 or M4, but the new designs dont appeal much to me droopy nose and all. I already have a very low millage modded E92. TO whoever said dont drive a 911 youll be ruined, you are right. At first the sales guy was gording me to test drive it and I kept saying I dont have the time and not interested. Then it went from bad to worse when he started telling me the options on the car. Bi-Xenon... I have that on my E92 and it doesn't cost even half the 150K optioned out the car I drove was. It was plain ridiculous it didn't evenb have the LED lights! $250 for the stupid Porsche badge on the wheels of a 911... insane. oh it has adjustable seat.... I said ok please stop because if I have to look at that I dont even want the damn car. E92 is optioned better than a car 5yrs younger and almost X3 the price. Does it drive 3 times better no. Is it 3times better no.

But Ill give it to Posrche, you drive the thing and price consideration just goes out the window and all you can think is, "what do I need to do to get this thing now?" M6, M3, M4...etc VS Porsche C4S. Am sorry, love BMW but am taking the frog please. I don't care how much it costs, just get me the frog.

Indeed, the science is settled. The P-Car makes no sense. Less utility, too expensive before they even start nickel and diming you for everything, and then you have to take out another mortgage on your home every time you get it serviced. But you drive the damn thing, and you gotta have it. I'm surprised you were still lucid enough to chronicle your descent into madness. Well done, and enjoy the living hell out of it!

[CSanto]

So here's the big question. Do you look for a low optioned 991 c2s used for like high 80s low 90s. Or do you pay 85 for a loaded brand new M4 with ceramics?

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by CSanto

So here's the big question. Do you look for a low optioned 991 c2s used for like high 80s low 90s. Or do you pay 85 for a loaded brand new M4 with ceramics?

Not that you were asking me, but I'll give you my opinion anyway. Nobody can tell you what to do. It comes down to how much you have to scratch that itch. I did it with a 997 a few years ago. Sold my E46 M, and lived the dream. Best and worst decision I ever made. If I had it to do all over again, I'd make the same decision...no I wouldn't...yes I would...no...yes...

[Milban]

Good Question!
Practicalities get trumped by only two things for me. Does it feel more awesome, Driving, and does it take your breath away when you see it.
It's about Love, more than a spreadsheet.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Not that you were asking me, but I'll give you my opinion anyway. Nobody can tell you what to do. It comes down to how much you have to scratch that itch. I did it with a 997 a few years ago. Sold my E46 M, and lived the dream. Best and worst decision I ever made. If I had it to do all over again, I'd make the same decision...no I wouldn't...yes I would...no...yes...

that! Porsche is neither about looks (I still think the 911 looks like a frog) nor any commonsense. (There is none. You can't justify the price on financial sense or practical sense.) It is about emotions that defy logic. Its like doing drugs. If you use your head you wont. But sometimes you can't resist taking a hit.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Really? I have never seen those orange peels in any of my 3 past 6er !!!!

Every 6er (and any bimmer, audi, or benz) I've driven or seen has it - just how their paint process works.

I had a 2005 white S4 and I could only really see it when I was polishing so some colors are better than others, but they all have it.

It doesn't bug me that much anymore... Every day more and more I'm feeling better and better

[Audio Fan]

I'm not a fan of the two wheel drive 911s. I don't like how the car handles, due to the excessive weight in the rear. The all wheel variants are better, but still not my cup of tea. The boxster and cayman seem much better to me, but then you have the "chic car" or "couldn't afford a 911" issue. For me, I like the understated nature of the M cars and balanced weighting. Maybe I would get used to it, but I was highly disappointed after several test drives. I love the looks and thought I was going to join the P club. Couldn't do it. If I ever do, it will be a turbo, if I can ever afford or justify it. Plus, I don't think there is a quality advantage with P, and the creature comforts/technology is lagging.

I just can't get the reason people say they handle so well. They will go around a turn, but it feels awkward to me. But, I'm not a pro. I think the cache and looks make people think the car is better than it is. Put a 911S engine in a boxster or cayman, and the story would change.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

I'm not a fan of the two wheel drive 911s. I don't like how the car handles, due to the excessive weight in the rear. The all wheel variants are better, but still not my cup of tea. The boxster and cayman seem much better to me, but then you have the "chic car" or "couldn't afford a 911" issue. For me, I like the understated nature of the M cars and balanced weighting. Maybe I would get used to it, but I was highly disappointed after several test drives. I love the looks and thought I was going to join the P club. Couldn't do it. If I ever do, it will be a turbo, if I can ever afford or justify it. Plus, I don't think there is a quality advantage with P, and the creature comforts/technology is lagging.

I just can't get the reason people say they handle so well. They will go around a turn, but it feels awkward to me. But, I'm not a pro. I think the cache and looks make people think the car is better than it is. Put a 911S engine in a boxster or cayman, and the story would change.

...and there are people who never get the fever. That's ok too. Probably saves you not only a flood of outgoing cash, but from developing that *twitch* whenever you're on a winding road. Good luck with the new M.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

I'm not a fan of the two wheel drive 911s. I don't like how the car handles, due to the excessive weight in the rear. The all wheel variants are better, but still not my cup of tea. The boxster and cayman seem much better to me, but then you have the "chic car" or "couldn't afford a 911" issue. For me, I like the understated nature of the M cars and balanced weighting. Maybe I would get used to it, but I was highly disappointed after several test drives. I love the looks and thought I was going to join the P club. Couldn't do it. If I ever do, it will be a turbo, if I can ever afford or justify it. Plus, I don't think there is a quality advantage with P, and the creature comforts/technology is lagging.

I just can't get the reason people say they handle so well. They will go around a turn, but it feels awkward to me. But, I'm not a pro. I think the cache and looks make people think the car is better than it is. Put a 911S engine in a boxster or cayman, and the story would change.

I've had 4 911's through the years. The mantra is true, slow in fast out. You're always thinking 'is the rear going to hold' and usually it does but it's not the best feeling to have.

Porsche has chosen to be a slave to its history as the Cayman is the better chassis of the two. It always bugged me that my GT3 had that dead space where the rear seats usually go. I always thought to myself that they could have used the space to locate the engine closer, giving the chassis better balance etc. If Porsche didn't have its history and they produced a car with the 911 layout as a brand new car they'd be criticized not unlike Audi's understeering front heavy pigs.

[48Laws]

If it ain't broke..don't try to fix it. Porsche knows what they're doing IMO. While the M division has historically been doing it right...they have altered the DNA of their cars every Generation.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

If it ain't broke..don't try to fix it. Porsche knows what they're doing IMO. While the M division has historically been doing it right...they have altered the DNA of their cars every Generation.

Yeah...they're awesome lol. 785 engines...I'd be pissed.

http://www.total911.com/porsche-reve...991-gt3-fires/

[48Laws]

You identified a flaw in a rare specialty car. And? Lol

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

You identified a flaw in a rare specialty car. And? Lol

I apologize I should have given you something more broad:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...res-nhtsa.html

http://www.imsporschesettlement.com

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Rated R

I apologize I should have given you something more broad:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...res-nhtsa.html

http://www.imsporschesettlement.com

Again...are you implying these issues are indicative of a brand that has lost its way? I don't get your point because certainly BMW has had its issues as well. I say Porsche knows what it's doing regarding driving dynamics and design and this guy posts warranty issues that in the larger picture are minuscule compared to units sold within the brand. Smh

[RPiM5]

This is a great discussion guys. The whole 991 C2S/C4S vs the F10 M5 is a long debated topic over on the other side of the forum and we've had many owners make the switch from the F10 M5 to the 991 because they are so close in price range yet two totally different cars.

My opinion is that the Porsche 991 911 is one of the best sports cars that money can buy, and what I especially like about them is that you can spec them to be as luxurious as an M5/M6 if you want.

Anyways, I just wanted to proposition this. Does anyone here think that a new F82 M4 can beat a 991 C2S in a straight rolling race, stock for stock? Because if it can't then it'll have no chance against an F10 M5 same race.

Now on the track, I'd give up the M5 in a heartbeat for either the 991 C2S or the new M4, but neither of those can be everything a supercar sports sedan can be and vice versa.

The M5 in this video doesn't even have the Competition Package either.

Train lengths gentleman, train lengths.

[48Laws]

The M5 has like 150 more horses. You don't think that matters?