991 Carrera S vs M4

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by NavidM3E92

I am just curious on why you did?!

I just test drove a C4S and can't imagine how the GT3 feels

It was a little too dedicated track car for weekend back roads and occasional commute duty. I had to watch every parking lot entrance, bump in the road, lineup to the freeway was a pia, road debris tinging in the wheel wells all the time etc. I also do not like how Porsche deals with their customers.

Also, I'm an instructor for motorcycle track days and compared to DE's for cars there is simply no comparison. Cars are almost pedestrian in regard to the level of intensity and I just didn't see doing car days in the GT3 when I'm so involved with doing motorcycle track days.

The M4 imo should be better for the way I use a car.

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by Rated R

It was a little too dedicated track car for weekend back roads and occasional commute duty. I had to watch every parking lot entrance, bump in the road, lineup to the freeway was a pia, road debris tinging in the wheel wells all the time etc. I also do not like how Porsche deals with their customers.

Also, I'm an instructor for motorcycle track days and compared to DE's for cars there is simply no comparison. Cars are almost pedestrian in regard to the level of intensity and I just didn't see doing car days in the GT3 when I'm so involved with doing motorcycle track days.

The M4 imo should be better for the way I use a car.

Got it. I hear the new one is a lot more comfortable. But let's see how the car is after this engine problem.

Same here. The M4 will be my daily

[48Laws]

Yeah but, who sells a car for issues they assume they'll have when the car operates fine? Lmfao. Seems like there's more to the story or you had a knee jerk reaction. Besides...the latest GT3 is of topic not your 3 year old GT3. "Smack" You clearly didn't enjoy the responsibility the car of that nature comes with. I've owned performance cars that had inherent issues but It never deterred me. That's the game.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Yeah but, who sells a car for issues they assume they'll have when the car operates fine? Lmfao. Seems like there's more to the story or you had a knee jerk reaction. Besides...the latest GT3 is of topic not your 3 year old GT3. "Smack" You clearly didn't enjoy the responsibility the car of that nature comes with.

My issues were stated, actually a post up if you'd pull your head out enough to look. Try not to take it personally lol.

You're correct I didn't enjoy the 'responsibility' of having to slow to a crawl every time I had to enter a parking lot. Didn't enjoy the brake flush and oil change for $900 at the stealer either. I don't care how much someone makes, that is unacceptable. Koolaid drinkers call that the privilege lol.

[48Laws]

Then make the real issues with your 3 year old GT3 known first and stop masking them as Porsche unwilling to honor its warranties, specifically with you.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Then make the real issues with your 3 year old GT3 known first and stop masking them as Porsche unwilling to honor its warranties, specifically with you.

he had problems with the car and Rated R has actually owned it and decided to part ways with it due to his reasons. why are you sitting here and bashing on him because he said that it wasnt for him? is it because to you the gt3 is the holy grail? who cares? ppl have left other car companies for personal reasons. if i had a gt3 at that much money and porsche was being a bitch about it, i may want to say fuck you too. i dont give a shit how great a car is.

now you are saying its a 3 yr old gt3? 997.2s are badass and will still cost at least double our 3 yr old m3s and more than a new m4

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Then make the real issues with your 3 year old GT3 known first and stop masking them as Porsche unwilling to honor its warranties, specifically with you.

Listen, If you have a 911 then go and enjoy it. Part of my enjoyment in having a car of that caliber is knowing that the company who built it will honor the warranty that came with it.

Instead of supplementing the owners manual with some bullshit log for the center locks, the honorable thing to do would be to replace the hub with better ones. Same with the coolant lines. Those two glaring examples are in the back of the minds of everyone who has one. Some have replaced their wheels and hubs with conventional 5 lugs, and dropped the engine to install better, stronger metal coolant fittings from Sharkwerks. Porsche should take care of these items, especially given the price (and their stellar profit) they get for their cars.

These issues sap the confidence the owners have in their cars. Porsche sells this confidence. They say they're the best, most reliable, there is no substitute etc. Well if they don't honor their warranty, especially on the really big safety issues then there are better alternatives.

It's not personal, don't get all butt hurt.

[RPiM5]

Why get an M4 or a Carrera C2S when this is coming in only a couple of years.

All it needs is 400hp and a base price of under $100k and it'll be epic. A real mid-engined sports car that will probably be 100lbs less than a Cayman S and 500-600lbs less than an M4.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3

he had problems with the car and Rated R has actually owned it and decided to part ways with it due to his reasons. why are you sitting here and bashing on him because he said that it wasnt for him? is it because to you the gt3 is the holy grail? who cares? ppl have left other car companies for personal reasons. if i had a gt3 at that much money and porsche was being a bitch about it, i may want to say fuck you too. i dont give a shit how great a car is.

now you are saying its a 3 yr old gt3? 997.2s are badass and will still cost at least double our 3 yr old m3s and more than a new m4

I don't know what this dude's problem is. I've had 4 911's through the years and have had a total of 9 Porsches in the family. This guy talks about my 'knee-jerk reaction' haha.

He must own a Porsche or is a huge fanboy. Porschephiles will defend to the end, regardless of the point being made. Sad really when you think about it. Would be a bit different if the company had a modicum of goodwill toward their customers and didn't treat them as adversaries.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Why get an M4 or a Carrera C2S when this is coming in only a couple of years.

All it needs is 400hp and a base price of under $100k and it'll be epic. A real mid-engined sports car that will probably be 100lbs less than a Cayman S and 500-600lbs less than an M4.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

i would rock that cayman…been waiting for a gt3 variant for a long time now but, don't know if under $100k…..but i'd take a performance only version. just give me the performance bits with nothing else. no thanks if its a 4 cyl turbo though. why can't porsche just say fuck it, and put a proper engine in there?

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3

he had problems with the car and Rated R has actually owned it and decided to part ways with it due to his reasons. why are you sitting here and bashing on him because he said that it wasnt for him? is it because to you the gt3 is the holy grail? who cares? ppl have left other car companies for personal reasons. if i had a gt3 at that much money and porsche was being a bitch about it, i may want to say fuck you too. i dont give a shit how great a car is.

now you are saying its a 3 yr old gt3? 997.2s are badass and will still cost at least double our 3 yr old m3s and more than a new m4

The internet is extremely emotional. No one is bashing and why would I? I commented about Porsche engineering staying true to its roots while the M3 specifically has altered its DNA every generation. He rebutted with issues he had with his GT3 which doesn't even come close to what I was even discussing. He seemed to group all of his personal frustrations he had with the gt3 and cross linked it to an unrelated issue porsche was having with warranties.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Rated R

I don't know what this dude's problem is. I've had 4 911's through the years and have had a total of 9 Porsches in the family. This guy talks about my 'knee-jerk reaction' haha.

He must own a Porsche or is a huge fanboy. Porschephiles will defend to the end, regardless of the point being made. Sad really when you think about it. Would be a bit different if the company had a modicum of goodwill toward their customers and didn't treat them as adversaries.

I'm not defended porsche. I'm critiquing your Whiney comments about the GT3 being too low, too flashy to park and too rough to drive daily. And considering the number of Porsches you've owned it seems counterintuitive why one would not know the driving dynamics before they purchased. Lol.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

The internet is extremely emotional. No one is bashing and why would I? I commented about Porsche engineering staying true to its roots while the M3 specifically has altered its DNA every generation. He rebutted with issues he had with his GT3 which doesn't even come close to what I was even discussing. He seemed to group all of his personal frustrations he had with the gt3 and cross linked it to an unrelated issue porsche was having with warranties.

staying true to its roots?

they have a big ass sedan which has no reason being there but only to get more sales.

they have suvs.

they have an underpowered mid engine car, widely said to be a better chassis but dont deliver a better engine because of the 911.

they made the boxster.

they have suvs, and another one the macan (i like it)

the 991 gt3 is not available in manual. say what you want about performance but this really has to do with getting more sales.

the 991 is a giant next to its predecessors. looks like an suv parked next to a miata.

the cars are softer and more plush now because everyone complains about comfort.

how are they true to their roots? every car manufacturer does the same shit as time progresses.

what is your experience with porsches?

[48Laws]

Was talking about the 911 specifically. Follow the discussion more closely, please. Someone mentioned the engine placement and driving dynamics and how the 911 handles. I believe one member offered a suggestion of moving the engine forward a bit. No one is talking about SUVs. Smdh.

I owned an e92 and currently a 991. That's my experiences if it matters to you but my opinion is not anchored to what I drive. Porsche has been consistent in delivery of its 911 since the inception while embracing change at the same time. BMW has, too but you can see the M badge being sold at kiosks. You can read that sentiment here. M owners say it themselves. You have sport packages with M badges and owners calling their cars Ms. It's a shame.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

The internet is extremely emotional. No one is bashing and why would I? I commented about Porsche engineering staying true to its roots while the M3 specifically has altered its DNA every generation. He rebutted with issues he had with his GT3 which doesn't even come close to what I was even discussing. He seemed to group all of his personal frustrations he had with the gt3 and cross linked it to an unrelated issue porsche was having with warranties.

This thread is about the 991S Vs. the M4. Porsche produces the 991S. My experience with Porsche as well as others is valid to present here. I was compelled to offer my opinion as potential owners may want to know what they're getting into. This is not your thread and you do not dictate what is written here.

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I'm not defended porsche. I'm critiquing your Whiney comments about the GT3 being too low, too flashy to park and too rough to drive daily. And considering the number of Porsches you've owned it seems counterintuitive why one would not know the driving dynamics before they purchased. Lol.

You can critique me all you want. I understand the driving dynamics of most 911's. However, understanding this and having the experience of GT3 ownership are separate. There is a reason why these models are traded with such frequency. Sometimes the dream does not parallel the reality. They have a single focus and your 991S is far more comfortable day to day. You couldn't possibly know what it's like without spending a good deal of time behind the wheel of a GT3. A 991S is soft in comparison. That softness makes it a better street car.

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Why get an M4 or a Carrera C2S when this is coming in only a couple of years.

All it needs is 400hp and a base price of under $100k and it'll be epic. A real mid-engined sports car that will probably be 100lbs less than a Cayman S and 500-600lbs less than an M4.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

Looks nice. I love the front but never been a big fan of the back. I hope the wing looks better in person than that

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Rated R

This thread is about the 991S Vs. the M4. Porsche produces the 991S. My experience with Porsche as well as others is valid to present here. I was compelled to offer my opinion as potential owners may want to know what they're getting into. This is not your thread and you do not dictate what is written here.



You can critique me all you want. I understand the driving dynamics of most 911's. However, understanding this and having the experience of GT3 ownership are separate. There is a reason why these models are traded with such frequency. Sometimes the dream does not parallel the reality. They have a single focus and your 991S is far more comfortable day to day. You couldn't possibly know what it's like without spending a good deal of time behind the wheel of a GT3. A 991S is soft in comparison. That softness makes it a better street car.

Oh gosh. Here we go with drama. Simmer down. News flash. I never claimed the thread. Cars of that caliber are traded at a higher frequency ANYWAY. You put 5000 miles on it, to boot. Every owner doesn't have a spreadsheet of pros and cons. Some trade because they have deep pockets. All I'm saying is...you went on a tangent replying to me with pointless links that had nothing to do with my initial comment. Was that an excuse to vent? Your personal gripe about your experience is not the standard and I take it with a grain of salt. Your opinion is valuable. Yes. But it is what it is. Fwiw years I ago I had two STIs. One being an '05. It was hardcore. It would rattle your teeth out. It was purpose built. I enjoyed it for 3 years. Do your research or maybe I'm just into that Abuse?

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Oh gosh. Here we go with drama. Simmer down. News flash. I never claimed the thread. Cars of that caliber are traded at a higher frequency ANYWAY. You put 5000 miles on it, to boot. Every owner doesn't have a spreadsheet of pros and cons. Some trade because they have deep pockets. All I'm saying is...you went on a tangent replying to me with pointless links that had nothing to do with my initial comment. Was that an excuse to vent? Your personal gripe about your experience is not the standard and I take it with a grain of salt. Your opinion is valuable. Yes. But it is what it is. Fwiw years I ago I had two STIs. One being an '05. It was hardcore. It would rattle your teeth out. It was purpose built. I enjoyed it for 3 years. Do your research or maybe I'm just into that Abuse?

Your first Porsche I take it?

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Oh gosh. Here we go with drama. Simmer down. News flash. I never claimed the thread. Cars of that caliber are traded at a higher frequency ANYWAY. You put 5000 miles on it, to boot. Every owner doesn't have a spreadsheet of pros and cons. Some trade because they have deep pockets. All I'm saying is...you went on a tangent replying to me with pointless links that had nothing to do with my initial comment. Was that an excuse to vent? Your personal gripe about your experience is not the standard and I take it with a grain of salt. Your opinion is valuable. Yes. But it is what it is. Fwiw years I ago I had two STIs. One being an '05. It was hardcore. It would rattle your teeth out. It was purpose built. I enjoyed it for 3 years. Do your research or maybe I'm just into that Abuse?

Relax dude. Lets keep this thread on topic

[mithiral67]

I have been a 4 time BWM owner, but never an M owner. I seriously considered the m4 to be my next car but having had dabbled with Porsche before, they were on the table. If you are buying new, you cant cross shop between the M4 and a 991S, we are talking a 50% difference in price before options and it only gets worse with options. If you consider a 991 base, it’s more reasonable, but folks looking at the top of the line 3/4 serious might have issues with a base model when a bigger engine options is present.

Hence, when I was looking, the 991 was just outside of my budget. That really leaves the Cayman as the true competition if you start with only costs and wanting a sports car well more capable than you will ever fully utilize on the streets.

To me, the decision came down to 4 factors; daily usability, power, driving characteristics, and rarity. In daily usability and power, the BMW wins hands down. You have a back seat and one large trunk vs. two smaller trunks. In addition, you have a very broad power band making daily driving a breeze. The need for space quickly knocks the Cayman out of contention and the power band can make some folks crave for 100 more hp and 150mpre TQ.

For driving characteristics, I don’t think you can find any driver that wouldn’t prefer a car that weighs 300-500 less lbs and has the engine in the middle instead of in the front. Both these aspects transforms how a car performs. Its also a mid engined Porsche and argued by some to be an even better chassis than the 991 (thats some praise).

Lastly, the Cayman is going to stand out as more unique on the road (the 981 is a stunning vehicle) as there a significantly less number of them on the road and often an M car will quickly be mistaken as the regular 3 serious by an average person while a Cayman is more likely to be confused with a 911.

At the end of the day, I ordered up a cayman GTS, yea it priced out about $10k more than an M4, but every day I know I will be driving something special and something connected to the road like few other cars out there.

[mithiral67]

PS, no, i dont every want to race a m3/m4 after I trade my current ride in.

[Milban]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

I have been a 4 time BWM owner, but never an M owner. I seriously considered the m4 to be my next car but having had dabbled with Porsche before, they were on the table. If you are buying new, you cant cross shop between the M4 and a 991S, we are talking a 50% difference in price before options and it only gets worse with options. If you consider a 991 base, it’s more reasonable, but folks looking at the top of the line 3/4 serious might have issues with a base model when a bigger engine options is present.

Hence, when I was looking, the 991 was just outside of my budget. That really leaves the Cayman as the true competition if you start with only costs and wanting a sports car well more capable than you will ever fully utilize on the streets.

To me, the decision came down to 4 factors; daily usability, power, driving characteristics, and rarity. In daily usability and power, the BMW wins hands down. You have a back seat and one large trunk vs. two smaller trunks. In addition, you have a very broad power band making daily driving a breeze. The need for space quickly knocks the Cayman out of contention and the power band can make some folks crave for 100 more hp and 150mpre TQ.

For driving characteristics, I don’t think you can find any driver that wouldn’t prefer a car that weighs 300-500 less lbs and has the engine in the middle instead of in the front. Both these aspects transforms how a car performs. Its also a mid engined Porsche and argued by some to be an even better chassis than the 991 (thats some praise).

Lastly, the Cayman is going to stand out as more unique on the road (the 981 is a stunning vehicle) as there a significantly less number of them on the road and often an M car will quickly be mistaken as the regular 3 serious by an average person while a Cayman is more likely to be confused with a 911.

At the end of the day, I ordered up a cayman GTS, yea it priced out about $10k more than an M4, but every day I know I will be driving something special and something connected to the road like few other cars out there.

I agree completely with everything you said. I put a deposit on a gts, it seemed perfect, gorgeous. Then I realized it couldn't fit my wife AND my dog. Couldn't choose, so I bailed.