F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[Holset]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Yeah but who wants an 80k dual purpose car w/ no power seats? lol

To some people its more important with lower weight than luxury and may think the option is unnecessary haven't you read this thread and others on this forum, some people seems obsessed with weight.

I'm not one of them though i ordered my M4 with powered seats.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Holset

To some people its more important with lower weight than luxury and may think the option is unnecessary haven't you read this thread and others on this forum, some people seems obsessed with weight.

I'm not one of them though i ordered my M4 with powered seats.

Is the M3/4 even offered without powered seats ?

[Holset]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Is the M3/4 even offered without powered seats ?

Yes here in Sweden they are i mentioned that in a previous post.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Holset

Yes here in Sweden they are i mentioned that in a previous post.

Wow - had no idea. Very surprising we have not seen those available in any other region.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Wow - had no idea. Very surprising we have not seen those available in any other region.

I am also surprised .

The configurator on bmw.se is not available for the F8X, so there is no quick way to check ...

It is part of the list of "options" in most EU configurators though, but it is automatically ticked off with a price of zero on all the sites I checked. It goes back to my earlier post questioning if the DIN weight quoted by BMW is without ANY of the listed "options"; even if some of those "options" are included in the base price of some countries.

It might not even be possible to configure a complete "stripper" anywhere in the world to get to the 3300/3350lb weight.

I also edited my prior post to include electrical seats, adjustable lumbar support and adjustable lateral support as part of the weight added by options.

[Holset]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am also surprised .

The configurator on bmw.se is not available for the F8X, so there is no quick way to check ...

It is part of the list of "options" in most EU configurators though, but it is automatically ticked off with a price of zero on all the sites I checked. It goes back to my earlier post questioning if the DIN weight quoted by BMW is without ANY of the listed "options"; even if some of those "options" are included in the base price of some countries.

It might not even be possible to configure a complete "stripper" anywhere in the world to get to the 3300/3350lb weight.

I also edited my prior post to include electrical seats, adjustable lumbar support and adjustable lateral support as part of the weight added by options.

Its in here option 459 http://www.bmw.se/se/sv/newvehicles/...?download=true

Hmm a bit confusing the weights without driver and luggage is 1497kg/3300lbs for the M4 and are quoted from BMW Germany and powered seats are standard there according to their configurator and pricelist but optional according to their M3/M4 catalog?

Look for
Sitzverstellung elektrisch für Fahrer und Beifahrer mit Memory für Fahrer
höhen- und längsverstellbar

http://www.bmw.de/dam/brandBM/market...4455497839.pdf
http://www.bmw.de/vc/ncc/xhtml/start...f7h2o2#OPTIONS
http://www.bmw.de/dam/brandBM/market...2975025706.pdf

[dhoggm3]

Originally Posted by JRV

Guys it says it on BMWUSA that auto curb weight is 3595 and manual is 3540 for the M3. That is pretty much spot on with what was measured. That's still over 100 lbs less than the current M3.

If we accept that as fact it doesn't encourage a 10+ page thread. Put your facts away and get angry!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I It is part of the list of "options" in most EU configurators though, but it is automatically ticked off with a price of zero on all the sites I checked.

Yes, I remember seeing that in the configurators too, but I had just chalked it up to the idiosyncrasies of the app itself. That is, for the M3/M4 I figured it just loads the same base level equipment list as the 3/4 Series and then marks all standard equipment as not deletable. Some of that will be regional standard equipment of course (rather than globally), but it never occurred to me that the power seats would fall into that category. Why go through the trouble of engineering those and then only offering them in very few places? Strange decision. They were standard for later E9x M3 in the US after all.

It goes back to my earlier post questioning if the DIN weight quoted by BMW is without ANY of the listed "options"; even if some of those "options" are included in the base price of some countries.

Indeed. I don't expect we'll ever get a full disclosure from BMW on what equipment is present on this elusive 3300 lb. M4. So it will be up to the forum to determine that over time. Once people start taking delivery, pulling off stock equipment and weighing both it and the resulting modified cars, we should be able to get a clear picture.

[tooch]

wish it was lighter, don't low how 3300 turned into 3600 lbs

[mithiral67]

Bigger and only a little less weight. I think we had some smoke blown up our asses.

[Holset]

I asked a German guy who has ordered an M4 and he says powered seats are standard in Germany so it should mean the specified weight 1497kg/3300lbs should include those.
This specified weight is for EU market though, i don't know whats correct outside EU.

Of course there is a possibility that for some reason BMW is not telling the true weights but 1497kg/3300lbs for the M4 is what specified for the EU market.

[JoeFromPA]

Bigger with alot more torque (requires beefing up componentry) and they cut ~120-150 pounds off.

The marketing has screwed them up, but it's amazing how we can whine over the first M car to not only drop weight - but drop the weight equivalent of a passenger.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Bigger with alot more torque (requires beefing up componentry) and they cut ~120-150 pounds off.

The marketing has screwed them up, but it's amazing how we can whine over the first M car to not only drop weight - but drop the weight equivalent of a passenger.

Yes in principle but no as to the details. Here in this thread I provided some pretty darn good evidence that the apples to apples weight difference is about 8X lbs AT BEST. Not sure what you weigh but this is more like 50% of a normal person...

Herein lies my primary concern. I can pretty well feel the performance difference of a 150-175 lb passenger in a car in this general power to weight ratio. However, I have a lot harder time feeling half as much...

[325rider]

My car wins

[myzmak]

Having a "confused" morning.

Who is saying BMW lied about weight savings? They said it would weigh about 80 kg or 176 lbs lighter than predecessor. (http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203)

That is what this scaled weight shows, almost exactly (174 lbs).

Weight varies depending on what is in the car, but apples to apples it seems BMW was right. ....which isn't so shocking since they are the ones building the damn cars.....

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Having a "confused" morning.

Who is saying BMW lied about weight savings? They said it would weigh about 80 kg or 176 lbs lighter than predecessor. (http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203)

That is what this scaled weight shows, almost exactly (174 lbs).

Weight varies depending on what is in the car, but apples to apples it seems BMW was right. ....which isn't so shocking since they are the ones building the damn cars.....

You're looking at the most recent information. You've got to look at historical. I don't have the links off hand, but I was right there with you. My recollection was that they were targeting E46 weight, but someone quickly posted a link to a BMW source citing 3300 lbs as the weight target, which they did not meet when you compare apples to apples. You can't compare a manual and a DCT.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

You're looking at the most recent information. You've got to look at historical. I don't have the links off hand, but I was right there with you. My recollection was that they were targeting E46 weight, but someone quickly posted a link to a BMW source citing 3300 lbs as the weight target, which they did not meet when you compare apples to apples. You can't compare a manual and a DCT.

I recall the E46 target too....but, really, did anyone think they would get that exact number?

This car is larger (20 cm, 10 cm wider, 10 cm taller). Unless you go all CF (and the cost increases accordingly, and this car stops being a mad-crazy-3 series and becomes a baby supercar) it was fairly unlikely to slim down all the way there....to get within 100 lbs or so isn't bad.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Yeah but who wants an 80k dual purpose car w/ no power seats? lol

You would be surprised, a lot of people actually. A stripper M4 will be very near $60k a year from now. When all the hype dies down and the normal $750 over invoice is available.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I recall the E46 target too....but, really, did anyone think they would get that exact number?

This car is larger (20 cm, 10 cm wider, 10 cm taller). Unless you go all CF (and the cost increases accordingly, and this car stops being a mad-crazy-3 series and becomes a baby supercar) it was fairly unlikely to slim down all the way there....to get within 100 lbs or so isn't bad.

The i3 is 1250 kg and curiously enough BMW estimates that the CF use is good for 250kg weight savings in the chassi alone landing a steel version at the exactly 1500 kg of the M4. It's not super car expensive. I.e BMW should have been able to lighten the chassi with 250 kg by using more CF and still keep the price "reasonable" if the volume of M3s and M4 would rival that of the i3. Maybe for the next generation since it would likely require to build it from scratch... Also the Alfa C4 is not super car expensive so things are changing in the cost of CF cars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ide-story.html

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by solstice

The i3 is 1250 kg and curiously enough BMW estimates that the CF use is good for 250kg weight savings in the chassi alone landing a steel version at the exactly 1500 kg of the M4. It's not super car expensive. I.e BMW should have been able to lighten the chassi with 250 kg by using more CF and still keep the price "reasonable" if the volume of M3s and M4 would rival that of the i3. Maybe for the next generation since it would likely require to build it from scratch... Also the Alfa C4 is not super car expensive so things are changing in the cost of CF cars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ide-story.html

True. I would say the C4 is a very much stripped down car - and (as a result) will be a small volume production car. Not at all the role to be played by the M3

And the i3 is light, but again, different reason. Who would want skinny low-drag tires on the M3? (would make it fun to drive because it would constantly be on the line of losing control......but would also get tiring fairly quicky

To get the car that will sell (fast, but with at least the refinement of an F30) some weight was gonna happen.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I recall the E46 target too....but, really, did anyone think they would get that exact number?

This car is larger (20 cm, 10 cm wider, 10 cm taller). Unless you go all CF (and the cost increases accordingly, and this car stops being a mad-crazy-3 series and becomes a baby supercar) it was fairly unlikely to slim down all the way there....to get within 100 lbs or so isn't bad.

Our expectations were set by BMW. It's not like anyone put a gun to their head and forced them to make those claims. That's kind of the point. Yes, generally speaking, I expect people to make good on the expectations that they set. If they don't, I keep little mental notes. The person who fails to meet expectations consistently isn't trustworthy.

Whether or not missing the target by 100 lbs is good or bad is a matter of perspective. One way to look at it is that 275 lbs is 175% more than 175 lbs. When you look at it like that, BMW missed the mark, big time. That's not very good at all.

Another way to look at it would be weight savings relative to the vehicle weight. Let's look at weight savings relative to a 3600 lb car:

175 lbs is a 4.9% savings
275 lbs is a 7.6% savings

That sounds less-worse, but I'd much rather have an ~8% savings than a ~5% savings.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Our expectations were set by BMW. It's not like anyone put a gun to their head and forced them to make those claims. That's kind of the point. Yes, generally speaking, I expect people to make good on the expectations that they set. If they don't, I keep little mental notes. The person who fails to meet expectations consistently isn't trustworthy.

Whether or not missing the target by 100 lbs is good or bad is a matter of perspective. One way to look at it is that 275 lbs is 175% more than 175 lbs. When you look at it like that, BMW missed the mark, big time. That's not very good at all.

Another way to look at it would be weight savings relative to the vehicle weight. Let's look at weight savings relative to a 3600 lb car:

175 lbs is a 4.9% savings
275 lbs is a 7.6% savings

That sounds less-worse, but I'd much rather have an ~8% savings than a ~5% savings.

But it wasn't a promise, it was a target, wasn't it? (I have been too lazy to drag back up whatever initial interview that comment came from....). Targets and promises are different. Sure, less is more, but short of CF everything and going all old-school porsche "no door handles, just nylon straps, no AC, no stereo, etc" where was the rest to come?

Edit: ok, found it:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...+weight+target

WEIGHT

We were also glad to learn that all this extra torque will not go to waste. We've been reporting that the F80 M3 / F82 M4 will be lighter than the current M3, but how much lighter is what we all want to know. The great news is that the M engineers have targeted the E46 M3 weight in developing the F80/F82.

The E46 M3's curb weight is 3,415 lb, while the current E90 M3 and E92 M3 weigh 3,726 and 3,704 pounds, respectively. This would represent an approximate 300 pound weight reduction; great news for BMW enthusiasts who bemoan the increasing weight of cars in general. The caveat to keep in mind however, is that curb weight is calculated based on the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, and with the ever growing list of standard equipment and technology in late model cars, don't be surprised or disappointed if you don't see exactly 300 pounds shaved. What's important is that the E46 M3 weight is being used as a target, which in any scenario, should result in significant weight reduction for the new M3 and M4.

so, yeah, a target. reached? no. Hence the 'don't be disappointed if...' caveat from the bimmerpost folks....

But, again, in a world where cars only get bigger and heavier, the diet combined with the new capabilities of this car seems an impressive combo.....