Turbo Lag and Reviewers...

[Money2536]

I promised myself I would stop agruing on forums. But I can't help myself. Of course you can control lag by changing gears. I could just drive around at 5,000 RPMs at all times and never experience lag. What OP and myself are contenting is that under normal driving conditions, you can notice what most lay people like myself would consider lag.

Reading many of the reviews I assumed that car wouldn't give me that feeling. Like others have said, I don't think it good or bad. I just notice it.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Money2536

I promised myself I would stop agruing on forums. But I can't help myself. Of course you can control lag by changing gears. I could just drive around at 5,000 RPMs at all times and never experience lag. What OP and myself are contenting is that under normal driving conditions, you can notice what most lay people like myself would consider lag.

Reading many of the reviews I assumed that car wouldn't give me that feeling. Like others have said, I don't think it good or bad. I just notice it.

yes, I agree there is definitely situational lag that is noticeable. its far better than other cars I have driven (n54 cars come to mind)

I too don't mind it. in situations where lag is an actual issue to me (on the track), it was not noticeable whatsoever. throttle control was excellent and easy to modulate.

the lag is noticeable to be at low RPM when slowly cruising, but I like the rush of torque and the way the power builds makes for an exciting feeling to me.

[Accel Junky]

Originally Posted by Money2536

I promised myself I would stop agruing on forums. But I can't help myself. Of course you can control lag by changing gears. I could just drive around at 5,000 RPMs at all times and never experience lag. What OP and myself are contenting is that under normal driving conditions, you can notice what most lay people like myself would consider lag.

Reading many of the reviews I assumed that car wouldn't give me that feeling. Like others have said, I don't think it good or bad. I just notice it.

[AMPowerJ]

Originally Posted by Money2536

I promised myself I would stop agruing on forums. But I can't help myself. Of course you can control lag by changing gears. I could just drive around at 5,000 RPMs at all times and never experience lag. What OP and myself are contenting is that under normal driving conditions, you can notice what most lay people like myself would consider lag.

Reading many of the reviews I assumed that car wouldn't give me that feeling. Like others have said, I don't think it good or bad. I just notice it.

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

yes, I agree there is definitely situational lag that is noticeable. its far better than other cars I have driven (n54 cars come to mind)

I too don't mind it. in situations where lag is an actual issue to me (on the track), it was not noticeable whatsoever. throttle control was excellent and easy to modulate.

the lag is noticeable to be at low RPM when slowly cruising, but I like the rush of torque and the way the power builds makes for an exciting feeling to me.

Yes and Yes

BMW has taken great and technologically advanced measures to reduce lag. They themselves never said they eliminated it.

People say a picture is better than a 1000 words. The best way to describe the power delivery in this car is this .... and notice .... yes there is some lag.

[Money2536]

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Money2536

Reading many of the reviews I assumed that car wouldn't give me that feeling. Like others have said, I don't think it good or bad. I just notice it.

And what others are pointing out is that reading "no lag" reviewer comments literally may be an error.

Rather what the professional reviewers may mean to say is: "Relative to other turbo cars the M4 has no lag, but in absolute terms of course it does - any turbo car will"

[ghost34]

Originally Posted by Accel Junky

I LOVE my F80 M3. It combines some great things about most of the 35+ vehicles I have owned. But, I just have to get this off my chest.

I read just about every review from the press and from individuals and watched every video I could. The majority of these outright proclaimed turbo lag was either eliminated or virtually eliminated or greatly reduced or barely present.

I've owned a lot of turbo cars. Some factory, some aftermarket, some small turbos, some big turbos, some singles, some twins, some sequential, some non-sequential.

I can absolutely detect the turbo lag in this car. It is plain as day to me. I do not think there is anything remarkable about the lag reduction. That's OK. I bought a turbo car...I knew that going in. But let's not kid ourselves...

dct or man? I'm coming out of a 550 with the Dinan stage 2 tune and the lag killed me. this f82 with the dct has only a hint to me in certain situations and only if I'm in D with the tranny and throttle in the softest settings. but I'm probably not as sensitive to it coming out of my last ride

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by ghost34

dct or man? I'm coming out of a 550 with the Dinan stage 2 tune and the lag killed me. this f82 with the dct has only a hint to me in certain situations and only if I'm in D with the tranny and throttle in the softest settings. but I'm probably not as sensitive to it coming out of my last ride

Kudos to Acceljunky for an entertaining thread!

I've noticed about the same as you - barely there and in certain situations. So what has me interested is whose opinions to listen to:

a.) People with lots of Turbo car experience, or

b.) People with little or no turbo car experience.

Seems like if you've never had to deal with lag you're in a better position to detect when it's there. Further, if you've dealt with a LOT of lag, you're going to be much more forgiving to the lag rather than notice it more.

Anyway, it would be nice to hear from people who have little or no turbo experience.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Kudos to Acceljunky for an entertaining thread!

I've noticed about the same as you - barely there and in certain situations. So what has me interested is whose opinions to listen to:

a.) People with lots of Turbo car experience, or

b.) People with little or no turbo car experience.

Seems like if you've never had to deal with lag you're in a better position to detect when it's there. Further, if you've dealt with a LOT of lag, you're going to be much more forgiving to the lag rather than notice it more.

Anyway, it would be nice to hear from people who have little or no turbo experience.

Although I have test driven quite a few turbo cars, the F8X is the first turbo car I have owned. I have always liked sharp throttle response, my first car was a modded VW GTI on twin Webber carbs, talk about sharp throttle response .

See my take on the F8X lag here

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have to agree with the OP. I have posted it myself on a few occasions, the S55 has turbo lag. There is no denying it.

When you run at constant Speed/RPM and mash the throttle, there is a delay before full power comes on. This is true regardless of mode (Efficient or Sport+) or RPM (2000 or 5000RPM). I have tried it in all modes and at different RPM, the lag is there, period.

With the S54 or S65 in my previous M3s, doing the same test would result in almost instant response from the engine in providing the available power for that engine speed.

Now, that being said, does the lag bother me on my M4? No, not one iota. The test mentioned above does not apply to the response I need or expect in either my DD or use at the track. In Sport or Sport+, the engine reacts to perfection to throttle modulation while cornering. The power delivery is very linear and predictable. The anti-lag wizardry does work its magic and allows the engine to precisely respond to the inputs of my right foot in the conditions I need it to. (Note: while I enjoy Efficient mode for the DD, I find the throttle response sluggish and the power delivery unpredictable for track use is this mode). Despite my early apprehensions, I am perfectly happy with the throttle response of the S55.

I think this says it all. The reason that reviewers aren't mentioning lag is that it is not crossing over the threshold of annoyance in daily driving or upsetting a a run around the track. I am really not sure what the point of this thread is.

The anti-lag measures extend beyond the pre-spooling feature. The water-cooled TMIC v an air-cooled FMIC also helps.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by M4TW

The reason that reviewers aren't mentioning lag is that it is not crossing over the threshold of annoyance in daily driving or upsetting a a run around the track. I am really not sure what the point of this thread is.

The the point of thread is that some people are taking the reviewer comments literally, i.e., they believe the reviewers are saying there's zero lag in absolute terms.

Advice to reviewers: tack on "relatively speaking" when mentioning attributes of the car.

For example, one reviewer said 0-60 took "no time at all". I don't think he meant that the M4 now exceeds the speed of light thus breaking Einstonian Relativity.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by M4TW

I think this says it all. The reason that reviewers aren't mentioning lag is that it is not crossing over the threshold of annoyance in daily driving or upsetting a a run around the track. I am really not sure what the point of this thread is.

The anti-lag measures extend beyond the pre-spooling feature. The water-cooled TMIC v an air-cooled FMIC also helps.

No reviewers have mentioned lag ( in a negative way ) ?

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

No reviewers have mentioned lag ( in a negative way ) ?

No they haven't because if it's noticeable at all, it isn't noteworthy. You really need to try the car yourself. It's not the same as the N54 (which I also used to own).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by M4TW

No they haven't because if it's noticeable at all, it isn't noteworthy. You really need to try the car yourself. It's not the same as the N54 (which I also used to own).

Yup, the N54 was a great engine in 2006, I had a 2008 E60 535i and it was a wonderful car and the N54 did not shame the superb chassis and steering of the E60. The S55 is almost a decade newer and it's an M engine and you can really feel the advances in technology and BMW's turbo knowledge over this time and that it's an M engine. It's a lot more responsive, A LOT and sooo much more powerful and it has more of a racy character. Not nearly as refined and silky, much more serious feeling. And did I mention the power? It's a gutsy engine, on a totally different level than the N54. I think it's also the highest revving BMW prodiction engine of all time and will likely remain so, forever. It's no doubt a huge loss BUT the S55 has that power that makes up for a lot. Luckily for me I really like turbo engines even if I love NA engines. Add finally I really think you are losing out if you leap frog this model of M3. It's flawed but it's also a hooligan, so much fun.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I think that you only really see it if you are looking hard for it. My experience in this forum is that the "F8X crowd" has NOT continually bashed the preceding M car. In fact, as I said earlier, many F8X guys have come from the E9X. I never owned an E9X so I can't compare. I came straight from an E46 M3. As much as I loved my E46, I would say that my M4 is more than a credible successor to that legacy!!

Which is one of the reasons I can't understand where you are coming from and why you even come into this forum in the first place.

^ THIS

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I think that you only really see it if you are looking hard for it. My experience in this forum is that the "F8X crowd" has NOT continually bashed the preceding M car. In fact, as I said earlier, many F8X guys have come from the E9X. I never owned an E9X so I can't compare. I came straight from an E46 M3. As much as I loved my E46, I would say that my M4 is more than a credible successor to that legacy!!

Which is one of the reasons I can't understand where you are coming from and why you even come into this forum in the first place.

The link to this thread is in the E90 M3 forum.

As I said, I want to like the new M3. Unfortunately I haven't been able to, yet.

[nicksm3]

Coming from 1 stock STI, a heavily modded STI and EVO, I test drove the F80....lag is certainly there but hey..I still like it. Not enough to sell my E92 for it ..yet

[dmk08]

I feel the lag like Accel. Is it horrible? No. Is it there? Yes.

Who knows maybe it is a 6mt thing.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Accel Junky

I would say with great certainty that you have owned more forced induction vehicles than 99.9% of the population given that the average number of total vehicles owned in one American's lifetime is 12 and is less internationally.

In any case, my intention is not to sound pompous or to brag but I'm just conveying a message to the guy coming in here with his 2 Subarus accusing me of not having a valid opinion on this matter.

According to this article, the average number of NEW cars bought per lifetime was 13 pre recession and 9,4 after recession. Average number of cars OWNED should therefore be a bit higher...

Just sayin

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49504504

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I feel the lag like Accel. Is it horrible? No. Is it there? Yes.

Who knows maybe it is a 6mt thing.

It's not. My car is DCT and the lag is there too.

Does it bother me? No.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by Accel Junky

You just said "non-existent" and "I feel it" in the same sentence. So what is it? For whatever it is worth, I met 5 other F8X owners this weekend and they all agreed with my assessment on the lag.

Anyways, this thread has been a true popcorn-fest...

Correction, should have said ALMOST non existent (typing fast from the office).. I understand the reason you started the post and yes there is lag but very minimal to a point its hard to feel it if you only have driven NA cars or come from N54/N55 platform. I dont like popcorn, rather have a bear fest thread instead

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by /// M sa

I dont like popcorn, rather have a bear fest thread instead