6MT or DCT?

[tomwac]

Originally Posted by cipri

in EU everybody drives stick?
are you serious?

No, I said that here everybody KNOWS how to drive stick...subtle difference... And the reason is that when you do the drivers licence exams with an automatic, it's on the drivers licence and you're not allowed to drive a stick... and, young people usually start driving in old, shitty cars and these come in 99.99999% manual versions... I don't know anybody here who doesn't know how to drive a stick or thinks he/she is a race driver because he/she knows how to...
But, this as said very off topic...

[AYF80]

Originally Posted by left123

Another thing to consider about manual transmissions is long term maintenance (not to mention it is $3k cheaper, hello!). It is a lot easier to service BMW manual transmission than the DCT (fluid changes predominantly). Even though BMW may state the fluid is "lifetime" if you are going to keep it past the warranty (or maintain it for people like me who can only afford it after you take the depreciation hit!) changing the fluid is an easy maintenance task.

I hear changing the DCT fluid is not so simple/cheap.

I'm obviously a hard core manual person and don't particularly care about speed of shifts, as it's really about having fun driving. The one comment above about not being concentrated is a little silly to me, as driving a car like an M3 should always take concentration (or any car for that matter). Perhaps I'm old fashioned.

To each their own, but I'll take the manual (and save the $3k!!!) all day.

I also have a good feeling that this motor will put out very large horse power in the future… with that in mind, i don't want to miss the train because i have a Auto that can't handle the power. We already went through this with the 335i. This S54 is far more capable from looking at the general construction.

[Imola3]

Originally Posted by neverbeentoofast

i assume it is a psychological thing of what is considered "sporty" or "new tech".
In germany where 95% of the cars are manual and every kid starts with manual in drivers school, dct is simply "cool, new tech" nobody ... Or at least very, very few...would consider manual to be very sporty and buy an M with it.

Its the complete opposite here in America. Virtually NO cars have manuals. A car with a MT in the US is immediately considered sporty just because it has a manual. I always peer into nice cars windows to see if they've got a manual because its almost like this mutual respect between people who love cars, like oh this guy is obviously a gear head, he's got a manual!
Car and Driver set this up awhile ago: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-headquarters

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by Imola3

Its the complete opposite here in America. Virtually NO cars have manuals. A car with a MT in the US is immediately considered sporty just because it has a manual. I always peer into nice cars windows to see if they've got a manual because its almost like this mutual respect between people who love cars, like oh this guy is obviously a gear head, he's got a manual!
Car and Driver set this up awhile ago: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-headquarters

oohhh.. they have t-shirts!
/imobviouslyamerican

but the sentiment here is so true, driving a manual is definitely seen as being a "cool" thing to be able to do. at least in the areas I've lived in. I wonder if there is a correlation between being a bad driver and not driving manual... it would explain the majority of people in my area

Or maybe most people these days really just see the car only as a thing where they push the pedal and miraculously happen to show up somewhere else in one piece, even with all the texting and calling they're doing. Perhaps seeing someone with MT jogs a sense of "wait, there's.... something more??"

[AYF80]

^ lol, I like that.

I'll never buy another Auto sports car. Unless I'm 65.

[Drift Master]

Originally Posted by uae247

I like the DCT in this car cause the whole car is more involving than the M6.

Also,
All my other cars are manuals.

I thought that I would be disappointed with the DCT but so far am liking it.

The only gripe with DCT is moving from a start. It always feels like a person riding the clutch.

I test drove the DCT on a M5 and that felt boring as helllll. I drive now a Z4 35is and its an AT. I drive it in manual mode almost all the time and that felt much more engaging and fun than that M5 with much more power. I am not sure it seems that M5 and M6 with all that weight with a DCT is a boredom death trap. That's what made me feel that ill regret a DCT M4 what do u think is it the transmission or the car to blame??? Thanks

[Audio Fan]

I wonder how many of those that fear the DCT also feared a smartphone or a phone without out a keyboard eight years ago. I drove a manual for 20 years until I bought an E92 M3 in 2011. A manual is fun, but the future is DCT. It is clearly a superior technology and fun in a new way. There is no more need to look like you are having a fit, massive body twitches, or a seizure to get a good 60 time. The problem with the BMW DCTs has been being matched to engines with little low end torque and needing very high revs to really shine. The new cars are fixing this issue and should really shine during everyday use as well as track use. The prior versions were beauty queens primarily at a track or just before jail.

[sor]

It seems somewhat surprising to me that there are Americans saying that manuals are rare. At least growing up, it seemed to me that it was 50/50. Auto trannies were always an extra 10% or so more on the purchase price of the vehicle. Most of my highschool and college friends in the 90s had manuals, and it had nothing to do with being viewed as sporty.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by HPF 335i #1

^ lol, I like that.

I'll never buy another Auto sports car. Unless I'm 65.

I' be 66 when I get my 6MT!

[ss134]

Originally Posted by cipri

in EU everybody drives stick?
are you serious?

Everybody learns to drive manual in EU. It is not a big deal as it seems to be in the US - it is normal.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ss134

Everybody learns to drive manual in EU. It is not a big deal as it seems to be in the US - it is normal.

In my home country, they don't even give a normal license to a person trained with automatic. this may be the reason why Europeans build the cars we want to drive, and win with the cars we want to drive.

Oh well, I still get my arse handed to me till Hornet arrives.

[Velon]

Originally Posted by Lups

In my home country, they don't even give a normal license to a person trained with automatic. this may be the reason why Europeans build the cars we want to drive, and win with the cars we want to drive.

Oh well, I still get my arse handed to me till Hornet arrives.

Same here!

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ss134

Everybody learns to drive manual in EU. It is not a big deal as it seems to be in the US - it is normal.

Originally Posted by Velon

Same here!

Well, you really want to go to a normal winter day there in with an automatic? I can't understand this rwd being the bad thing, it's the fun thing in snow, but what kills me is the fwd. Okay, we have snow. we have hills, but really, does one need an Audi Mountains are small to deal with a bit of snow... And again, you in sweden must have better tax policy, we only drive shitty cars back home.

[darmstadt]

Originally Posted by ss134

Everybody learns to drive manual in EU. It is not a big deal as it seems to be in the US - it is normal.

I didn't (*) but did it in a ford Cortina 1600 automatic and my license states that I can only drive automatics) My last 2 cars, an AMG and an Alpina were both autos and really rather impressive. One plus point is that when driving in cities, traffic jams, etc. you're not constantly pressing down a third pedal, moving your arm all the time but just sitting, relaxing

The Alpina has little buttons behind the steering wheel so that you can shift manually but I've hardly ever used them and with the AMG you could move the gearstick left to right to change semi-manually. I'm quite looking forward to the M3 and DCT, should be interesting although I think I'll probably just leave it in D most of the time and only use the paddles when playing up in the hills


(* only due to a gammy right leg so I can't drive manuals)

[neverbeentoofast]

Originally Posted by IMrMark

oohhh.. they have t-shirts!
/imobviouslyamerican

but the sentiment here is so true, driving a manual is definitely seen as being a "cool" thing to be able to do. at least in the areas I've lived in. I wonder if there is a correlation between being a bad driver and not driving manual... it would explain the majority of people in my area

Or maybe most people these days really just see the car only as a thing where they push the pedal and miraculously happen to show up somewhere else in one piece, even with all the texting and calling they're doing. Perhaps seeing someone with MT jogs a sense of "wait, there's.... something more??"

Yes. Thats what i meant with psychologically " feeling cool and fast". Maybe my 70year old mother can handle a stick better than most US "sport" guys, just because she has 50years and 100 types of cars experience. Starting with a volkswagen beetle and 30hp in 1962.

Ok...i ll take that back. That was mean

[kevinlevrone]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

I wonder how many of those that fear the DCT also feared a smartphone or a phone without out a keyboard eight years ago. I drove a manual for 20 years until I bought an E92 M3 in 2011. A manual is fun, but the future is DCT. It is clearly a superior technology and fun in a new way. There is no more need to look like you are having a fit, massive body twitches, or a seizure to get a good 60 time. The problem with the BMW DCTs has been being matched to engines with little low end torque and needing very high revs to really shine. The new cars are fixing this issue and should really shine during everyday use as well as track use. The prior versions were beauty queens primarily at a track or just before jail.

These days everybody can draw their own conclusions regarding the DCT vs manual. Just go to a BMW dealership and drive a DCT BMW, then drive a manual and draw your own conclusion. There is not really a need for someone to tell you which is better and more fun.

As for my own conclusion after driving every M car to date (minus the 1M), all with DCT, is that they become boring very quickly, in a matter of hours, and this a problem when buying such an expensive car. They are undoubtedly faster and more consistent to drive, and great to show good times to friends, but - at least for me - if I want to just enjoy driving for myself I need a manual gearbox.

I'm not sure if my next car will have a DCT or not, still debating it, but if I will get the DCT I will surely be aware that I would get it for the extra performance and to compensate my average driving skills at the expense of less driving enjoyment.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Rockette

Even in heavy traffic? I've experienced it in both cars.

Never

[ake]

I'd like to come back to the (maintenance) costs of the DCT vs MT.
I still haven't decided on that... I'd say that I'm a pretty good driver with manual transmission (as stated in Germany/Europe pretty much anybody knows how to drive MT, but I'd state I'm above average using it).

Is it for certain, that it is the same fun (and maybe improved) MT as in the M135i? If I was going manual, I'd like to have short and direct shift paths (I think my 120d with M package shifts pretty cool).

What does either cost for maintenance? Liquid (oil?) changes even though it is a closed system? Which one is likely to fail sooner (well, hopefully it'll anyway be after I got the next car then)? Which will be using less fuel (not believing in the EU cycle figures...)?

I won't take my car on the track, so I guess that I don't have to squeeze out the last fraction of the second.

[neverbeentoofast]

if you are not taking the car to track, I assume it will be your DD. So beeing 40 and having driven MT for 15 years before turning to AT (535) and now to DCT (335i) I can only tell you, that I do 100% agree that AT is boring, but that I love the DCT in manual mode and that I am happy to have DCT automode everytime i am stuck in traffic jams. only you know how often you are in a jam.
My last car with MT was an audi S3. fun car - but terribly getting on my nerves as a DD.

Me personal would only advise MT in a sportscar to someone who is perfektly fit with heel/toe technique to give extra throttle when downshifting. Can YOU do that? Yes - I know - the new M does this automatically - but hwy then get the MT?

I have driven a Z4M MT. THAT car is crazy fun. hard breaking and downshifting means the rear wheels loose grip and the rear end starts dancing before going into the bend... haha... great - but very risky if you wanna be very fast.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by neverbeentoofast

if you are not taking the car to track, I assume it will be your DD. So beeing 40 and having driven MT for 15 years before turning to AT (535) and now to DCT (335i) I can only tell you, that I do 100% agree that AT is boring, but that I love the DCT in manual mode and that I am happy to have DCT automode everytime i am stuck in traffic jams. only you know how often you are in a jam.

If you liked the DCT on your 335i, you will absolutely love it on the M3/4 .

Having driven a 335is with DCT, even if the hardware is the same as in my E92 M3, the programming is very different. The DCT does not behave the same in 335/135 application and the M3 application. On the 335/135, the overall behaviour is more akin to a standard automatic transmission. However, the way it is programmed in the M3 is much closer to the feeling of a manual and feels more directly connected.

Originally Posted by neverbeentoofast

I have driven a Z4M MT. THAT car is crazy fun. hard breaking and downshifting means the rear wheels loose grip and the rear end starts dancing before going into the bend... haha... great - but very risky if you wanna be very fast.

Seems like you need to learn how to heel-and-toe

[neverbeentoofast]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Seems like you need to learn how to heel-and-toe

Absolutely! Never found anybody who could show it to me. Tried with video - didnt work out.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Drift Master

I test drove the DCT on a M5 and that felt boring as helllll. I drive now a Z4 35is and its an AT. I drive it in manual mode almost all the time and that felt much more engaging and fun than that M5 with much more power. I am not sure it seems that M5 and M6 with all that weight with a DCT is a boredom death trap. That's what made me feel that ill regret a DCT M4 what do u think is it the transmission or the car to blame??? Thanks

Doesn't seem this guy agrees with your view on the M5 DCT being a "boredom death trap". Neither does it look like he is bored

With your username, his driving style seems to be just what you look for in a car