Detroit 2014: BMW M3 F80 in Yas Marina Blue - World Debut

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by S3RI35

...explain this to me. I'm clearly out of the loop on this.

Lets say you lease an M4/3 for 36 months with 10K miles your monthly payments would be about 900$ a month (using numbers from e93 M3 w/ 69K MSRP) and at lease end you will have the option of either 1) buying the car out or 2) turn the car in.

1) You finance the residual value of the car ~$40K and don't worry about the dealership charging you for the miles you went over from your agreement.

2) If turning the car in you end up with nothing and will get charged for going over mileage whereas buying the car out is kinda of like buying a 3 years old car that is actually yours (if that makes sense)

if you look at current used 3 year old e93/2 M3s with 30-40k miles most of them are priced around $50K which makes buying your car for ~$40K even more of a bargain

Why not just finance the car from the get go? By leasing your barely paying any interest and payments will be much lower freeing up your cash flow to invest or do whatever you want with your money.

Total money spent on a 3 year lease w/10k miles $2.5K down= $34,864
Total money over 3 years of financing with $2.5K down 2.9% APR= $45,556

Hope this helps

[535DMSport]

Full leather, looking nice. Alcantara headliner or anthrazit like M-sport versions?

[Pure]

Thanks for the pics.

[JoeFromPA]

I have an e60 535xit. 2008 model year (5 years into the run). I bought it CPO from a BMW dealer 12 months ago almost to the day.

I have had a ton of problems with comfort access. They key is frequently unrecognized, takes several tries to fix, etc.

And on top of that, my wife once put the keys on the sunroof. It allowed the car to start. We drove off, keys slid off the car (no scratching thank God). Got to our destination and were stuck. Keys were found but had been run-over.

New key set me back $350-400 with programming.

No thanks. I'll hit my lock and unlock button manually and save the package bundling BMW likes to do.

[Murph335]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'm going to keep my aggressively offset Avant Garde wheels as well, and ditch the OEM F80 wheels.

Car looks sick! N55 in them really makes it easy to go f80 m3. N54 would make it more difficult in the new x35i. Easy candidate when/if my n54 dies. Struggle with the 2x investment. Could mod almost 2x n54 w/ LSD cars for price of m3.

This m3 is so very right though, and tuning market will get pretty crazy. Guessing +100hp/tq can be had for less than $2k within 3yrs of launch.

[Murph335]

Originally Posted by Powaup

Lets say you lease an M4/3 for 36 months with 10K miles your monthly payments would be about 900$ a month (using numbers from e93 M3 w/ 69K MSRP) and at lease end you will have the option of either 1) buying the car out or 2) turn the car in.

1) You finance the residual value of the car ~$40K and don't worry about the dealership charging you for the miles you went over from your agreement.

2) If turning the car in you end up with nothing and will get charged for going over mileage whereas buying the car out is kinda of like buying a 3 years old car that is actually yours (if that makes sense)

if you look at current used 3 year old e93/2 M3s with 30-40k miles most of them are priced around $50K which makes buying your car for ~$40K even more of a bargain

Why not just finance the car from the get go? By leasing your barely paying any interest and payments will be much lower freeing up your cash flow to invest or do whatever you want with your money.

Total money spent on a 3 year lease w/10k miles $2.5K down= $34,864
Total money over 3 years of financing with $2.5K down 2.9% APR= $45,556

Hope this helps

Great post!

Huge fan of acquiring my bmw's right around your step 2. Come to the rescue by saving the lessee the turn in fees, and penalties. All, Hit me up when your close to finished with your f80 lease! (Unless you foolishly ordered pewter/beige)

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by Powaup

Lets say you lease an M4/3 for 36 months with 10K miles your monthly payments would be about 900$ a month (using numbers from e93 M3 w/ 69K MSRP) and at lease end you will have the option of either 1) buying the car out or 2) turn the car in.

1) You finance the residual value of the car ~$40K and don't worry about the dealership charging you for the miles you went over from your agreement.

2) If turning the car in you end up with nothing and will get charged for going over mileage whereas buying the car out is kinda of like buying a 3 years old car that is actually yours (if that makes sense)

if you look at current used 3 year old e93/2 M3s with 30-40k miles most of them are priced around $50K which makes buying your car for ~$40K even more of a bargain

Why not just finance the car from the get go? By leasing your barely paying any interest and payments will be much lower freeing up your cash flow to invest or do whatever you want with your money.

Total money spent on a 3 year lease w/10k miles $2.5K down= $34,864
Total money over 3 years of financing with $2.5K down 2.9% APR= $45,556

Hope this helps

I don't think it's that simple.

Sure, total money spent leasing is lower, but you get less for it. (Now, obviously, all of the numbers are rough here, but I'll read through it the best I can). Sure, after 3 years on a lease you can buy the car for say, 40k and it's worth 50k, but if you finance, after 3 years you OWN the car worth 50k, and will still owe about 28k on it. (your numbers suggest a 5 year financing deal on a 70k car). So while you can flip our of your lease and pocket 10k, you can flip our of your financing and pocket 22k. Is that worth paying an extra 11k for? Pretty much a push as far as I can tell.

Big caveat here is the exact interest rates involved etc. The interest rate involved in a lease is often obfuscated using terms like 'money factor' etc, but basically you pay a discounted payment stream and continual interest on the residual - a lot like balloon financing.

Assuming the payments work out roughly equivalent (as above), the real value to the lease is twofold.

1) lower cash flow requirements. Yes, you can just pay less every month. You're not in as good of shape at the end, but hey - no such thing as a free lunch, right? Assuming you can earn more than 2.9% in another investment (pretty likely), you're better off just reinvesting the difference.

2) The big benefit to me is the free option. If these cars magically hold a ton of value, there's no real benefit. Buy out the lease and flip it. BUT, if something happens and the values totally crater, leasing gives you a free out. (However, again, there's no such thing as a free lunch and BMWFS aren't idiots. They'll probably cover themselves with a low residual and/or the implicit interest rate in the leasing deal will be higher than the financing rate).

YMMV.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Murph335

Great post!

Huge fan of acquiring my bmw's right around your step 2. Come to the rescue by saving the lessee the turn in fees, and penalties. All, Hit me up when your close to finished with your f80 lease! (Unless you foolishly ordered pewter/beige)

My uncle is actually about to do a lease takeover then buyout at lease end on an e92 M3 for the same reasons. another advantage is that since he owns a company he will be able to write off the lease payments on his taxes. Same thing my mom is doing with her 428i, writing off the lease payments.

[w3rkn]

You can always lease your car, then buy it outright. (best method imo)

That way you make sure you absolutely like it, & also, that you don't happen to have a lemon, etc. Very little cost difference in Leasing to buy, than buying outright. Doing so offers a lot of protection.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

I don't think it's that simple.

Sure, total money spent leasing is lower, but you get less for it. (Now, obviously, all of the numbers are rough here, but I'll read through it the best I can). Sure, after 3 years on a lease you can buy the car for say, 40k and it's worth 50k, but if you finance, after 3 years you OWN the car worth 50k, and will still owe about 28k on it. (your numbers suggest a 5 year financing deal on a 70k car). So while you can flip our of your lease and pocket 10k, you can flip our of your financing and pocket 22k. Is that worth paying an extra 11k for? Pretty much a push as far as I can tell.

Big caveat here is the exact interest rates involved etc. The interest rate involved in a lease is often obfuscated using terms like 'money factor' etc, but basically you pay a discounted payment stream and continual interest on the residual - a lot like balloon financing.

Assuming the payments work out roughly equivalent (as above), the real value to the lease is twofold.

1) lower cash flow requirements. Yes, you can just pay less every month. You're not in as good of shape at the end, but hey - no such thing as a free lunch, right? Assuming you can earn more than 2.9% in another investment (pretty likely), you're better off just reinvesting the difference.

2) The big benefit to me is the free option. If these cars magically hold a ton of value, there's no real benefit. Buy out the lease and flip it. BUT, if something happens and the values totally crater, leasing gives you a free out. (However, again, there's no such thing as a free lunch and BMWFS aren't idiots. They'll probably cover themselves with a low residual and/or the implicit interest rate in the leasing deal will be higher than the financing rate).

YMMV.

Yes, everything you said is true. By going into a lease with a buyout strategy I am very optimistic in the future market value of the F8x. Looking at the used market for M cars it's easy to see they hold up their value very well. I will also be investing the money saved from not financing the first 3 years (Fingers crossed S&P500 can keep going at 30% a year)

Another advantage of buying your car out is that you wont have to worry about getting any extra warranty associated with lease turn in procedures and you be charged penalties or turn in fees

P.S: Although pricing is unavailable for the F8x an M6 for 36 months with 10k miles has a residual of 60% with MF of 0.00121. Pretty good numbers in my opinion

[Kyu]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's no different than it has always been.

Is it ? didn't the m3s previously come standard in m suspension ? I don't remember it being optional,

Now the base m models are essentially a slightly tuned 335 w/ m package ( also no m suspension) but with a sportier hood and slight weight reduction from motor, aluminum parts.. Pistons.. Etc (not always a good thing for a high boosted block) explains why they're limiting the rev limiter to be less
And exterior lighter parts

I put my money on a base M3 vs a piggy back 335i will perform about on par, while saving money

It's not like before where the M3's came in a entirely different motor to give that M the bigger advantage (By a big margin) that excludes M3's reinforced chassis , better braking, differences in tires etc..

If u really want an base model with no options, probably be better to get a fully equipped 335

this time it looks like BMW made whatever made this car an "M" become Optional other than the bodykit/hood which is standard

Upcoming BMW's lost me on their best bang for buck price/performance ratio,
Their 5 Series look even worse

I'm an ///M at heart but I'm skipping this generation and see how their next generation will be like.

it's good to see they're looking at the market to make their tiers more affordable but with an M I find it odd.

Originally Posted by Powaup

Lets say you lease an M4/3 for 36 months with 10K miles your monthly payments would be about 900$ a month (using numbers from e93 M3 w/ 69K MSRP) and at lease end you will have the option of either 1) buying the car out or 2) turn the car in.

1) You finance the residual value of the car ~$40K and don't worry about the dealership charging you for the miles you went over from your agreement.

2) If turning the car in you end up with nothing and will get charged for going over mileage whereas buying the car out is kinda of like buying a 3 years old car that is actually yours (if that makes sense)

if you look at current used 3 year old e93/2 M3s with 30-40k miles most of them are priced around $50K which makes buying your car for ~$40K even more of a bargain

Why not just finance the car from the get go? By leasing your barely paying any interest and payments will be much lower freeing up your cash flow to invest or do whatever you want with your money.

Total money spent on a 3 year lease w/10k miles $2.5K down= $34,864
Total money over 3 years of financing with $2.5K down 2.9% APR= $45,556

Hope this helps

This is pretty close and should give a good idea,
the numbers won't be accurate but fairly close from what I saw at the dealers and how they broke it down for me.

For me it wasnt much of a difference, 1,100 a month for lease and 1,300-1360 for finance I forgot,
only advantage I had was I pay basically 2 years less of payments
so i put 20 and bought the car, with M's they hold their value pretty well, so I'd at least have a trade in for my next car, vs. Lease I am back to 0

Buy out after the difference was about the same I would've spent.
Made me feel like Lease to buyout was about the same just less monthly payments but a bigger payment at the end.

I think it'll vary by the person and his/her location

I hate our sales tax increase

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Kyu

Is it ? didn't the m3s previously come standard in m suspension ? I don't remember it being optional,

Dude, you're one confused guy. Base suspension is non-EDC; EDC is the 'upgrade'.

Originally Posted by Kyu

Now the base m models are essentially a slightly tuned 335 w/ m package ( also no m suspension) but with a sportier hood and slight weight reduction from motor, aluminum parts.. Pistons.. Etc (not always a good thing for a high boosted block) explains why they're limiting the rev limiter to be less
And exterior lighter parts

How on God's green and polluted Earth did you come up with this nonsense?

Originally Posted by Kyu

I put my money on a base M3 vs a piggy back 335i will perform about on par, while saving money

A base M3 is no different in terms of performance potential than a fully loaded M3.

Originally Posted by Kyu

It's not like before where the M3's came in a entirely different motor to give that M the bigger advantage (By a big margin) that excludes M3's reinforced chassis , better braking, differences in tires etc..

You're caught up in S65 hype. The S55 will show an E9X M3 a few car lengths (..maybe more) in stock configuration. Having an 'entirely different motor' is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Kyu

If u really want an base model with no options, probably be better to get a fully equipped 335

Again.....WHAT???

Originally Posted by Kyu

this time it looks like BMW made whatever made this car an "M" become Optional other than the bodykit/hood which is standard

??????

Originally Posted by Kyu

I'm an ///M at heart but I'm skipping this generation and see how their next generation will be like.

That's probably a good idea..........for you. You seem lost!

Originally Posted by Kyu

it's good to see they're looking at the market to make their tiers more affordable but with an M I find it odd.

BMW does what it needs to in order to make their cars 'affordable' (..be it highly subsidized residuals, crazy low interest rates, etc.). If you find it odd, then you should also find it odd that BMW was basically giving away E90 M3 sedans in 2008 (..I got mine for 0.9% interest because BMW made too many and they weren't selling; I purchased my coupe with 1.9% interest) or basically highly discounting ///M3's in '04 and '05 (..BMW gave me $5000 to buy my '05 ZCP, and that was before any dealer discounts and/or negotiations; it was available to previous ///M3 owners.....some of you may have remember receiving that $5000 postcard from BMW).

[Kyu]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's probably a good idea..........for you. You seem lost!

There's no need to start being offensive,
I was putting out my opinion, Not bashing on the new m4/m3.. I was just expecting a lot more for that price range, compared to the other tiers in it's class

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Dude, you're one confused guy. Base suspension is non-EDC; EDC is the 'upgrade'.

From my understanding the suspension settings will be same as it is on the 335i's Sport/M package
springs and etc (M and Sport share the same dampeners / Springs /anti roll bars)

the M Adaptive will not be included as standard, if that is the EDC then

so I took it as the base m3 will handle like an 335i on sports package/m package
since it'll be coming with the same settings as the 335i on sports/m package
I apologize if i took that wrong

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You're caught up in S65 hype. The S55 will show an E9X M3 a few car lengths (..maybe more) in stock configuration. Having an 'entirely different motor' is irrelevant.

I'm not caught up on any hype, if anything you seemed more on the hype as we haven't seen dyno'd results and the power curve lines of the new m4/m3
I dont fall for marketing hype from manufacturers, I'd like to see real results from legitimate reviews.

Like I said before, I'm sure the new M4/M3's will show a progress in their engineering but to state it'll take on the e9x by few car lengths "Maybe more" is just.. , no offense.. but that is just biased

Once official released , on track it'll probably show a better difference between the two. the e9x's really start to shine revving 7k+ in x crosses

[/QUOTE]'entirely different motor' is irrelevant. [/QUOTE]

Really ?

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

BMW does what it needs to in order to make their cars 'affordable' (..be it highly subsidized residuals, crazy low interest rates, etc.). If you find it odd, then you should also find it odd that BMW was basically giving away E90 M3 sedans in 2008 (..I got mine for 0.9% interest because BMW made too many and they weren't selling; I purchased my coupe with 1.9% interest) or basically highly discounting ///M3's in '04 and '05 (..BMW gave me $5000 to buy my '05 ZCP, and that was before any dealer discounts and/or negotiations; it was available to previous ///M3 owners.....some of you may have remember receiving that $5000 postcard from BMW).

That isnt making it affordable, i think you miss understood my comment

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Kyu

There's no need to start being offensive,
I was putting out my opinion, Not bashing on the new m4/m3.. I was just expecting a lot more for that price range, compared to the other tiers in it's class

I'm not being offensive. I'm just stating the obvious. Your comments are over the place and I can't quite discern what your argument is exactly.

Originally Posted by Kyu

From my understanding the suspension settings will be same as it is on the 335i's Sport/M package

the M Adaptive will not be included as standard, if that is the EDC then

Where are you drawing this conclusion? The suspensions are completely different. 'Settings' - i.e adjustability - does not mean that the suspension are the same. The new ///M will definitely NOT get the lame ass OEM suspension of the 335i ///M sport in base form.

Originally Posted by Kyu

I'm not caught up on any hype, if anything you seemed more on the hype as we haven't seen dyno'd results and the power curve lines of the new m4/m3
I dont fall for marketing hype from manufacturers, I'd like to see real results from legitimate reviews.

At what point have you seen ME comment on dyno curves and shit? That's not my game, and I rarely even read those threads. Sorry, try again! I leave that to swamp2 and the other guys who like to argue graph plots and such.

Originally Posted by Kyu

Like I said before, I'm sure the new M4/M3's will show a progress in their engineering but to state it'll take on the e9x by few car lengths "Maybe more" is just.. , no offense.. but that is just biased

How is it biased? The new M5 - making not much more horsepower than the outgoing E60 - easily pulls 3 or 4 car lengths on the E60. It is not biased to extrapolate that performance to the F8X M3/M4. It will pull car lengths on an E9X.

Originally Posted by Kyu

Really ?

Yes, the individuality of the motor is irrelevant when we're discussing pure performance numbers. 'Individuality', and it's perceived value is purely emotional, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Kyu

That isnt making it affordable, i think you miss understood my comment

How are subsidized lease rates, reduced interest rates to help move stock, etc. NOT considered making a car affordable? Try leasing ANY other car priced similarly to an ///M car (..with all cap cost reduction on your behalf being equal), and tell me what you come up with. It is no secret that BMW's lease better than just about ANY other higher end car in its segment. Does GUESS discounting a pair of jeans from $100 down to $50 NOT make it more affordable? Geez!

[Black Gold]

KYU you are out of your element here and are lost (big lebowski reference )

M3 suspension is not the same in any way as any normal 3 series

-LSD in m3
-wider track
-all aluminum suspension components
-solid mounted subframe, no bushings
-stiffer materials

IE EXACTLY the same differences as in the prior two m3 generations, except this time there is more electronic LSD tech and a solid mounted subframe which has never been used before.

M3 Engine is not the same

-2 turbos vs one (larger turbos as well)
-different cooling system
-more robust cooling system
-closed deck vs open deck
-forged internals
-lightweight internals and design
-tuning tech to keep turbos spooled off throttle
-oh yea, 130 more HP and 100+ ft/lbs of torque vs 3 series

M3 performance vs old m3

BMW themselves quoted a .5 second difference in zero to 60 in the f80 vs e92 m3. these are official numbers.

as far as dynos go, see this dyno plot to see the difference in power under the curve for the f80 vs e92. the massive power under the curve difference is the reason that the f80 will be quicker in every RPM, every gear, every situation. at lower RPMs, it would be a massive beatdown.

if the s55 is actually under-rated compared to the s65, (which definitely wasn't under-rated), the performance gap will be even larger.

the second graph is a real world same dyno comparison of a n54 in the 1m vs the s65 in the m3. the s55 should make much more power than the 1m, and hold power stronger to redline by a large margin per BMW and as expected from larger turbos. notice the huge difference in power under the curve in the midrange. that is how the 1m is basically just as quick as the m3, and is faster when tuned. its also why cars like the 911 turbo and gtr are so damn fast, even from a roll. huge average power under the curve.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

KYU you are out of your element here and are lost (big lebowski reference )

M3 suspension is not the same in any way as any normal 3 series

-LSD in m3
-wider track
-all aluminum suspension components
-solid mounted subframe, no bushings
-stiffer materials

IE EXACTLY the same differences as in the prior two m3 generations, except this time there is more electronic LSD tech and a solid mounted subframe which has never been used before.

M3 Engine is not the same

-2 turbos vs one (larger turbos as well)
-different cooling system
-more robust cooling system
-closed deck vs open deck
-forged internals
-lightweight internals and design
-tuning tech to keep turbos spooled off throttle
-oh yea, 130 more HP and 100+ ft/lbs of torque vs 3 series

M3 performance vs old m3

BMW themselves quoted a .5 second difference in zero to 60 in the f80 vs e92 m3. these are official numbers.

as far as dynos go, see this dyno plot to see the difference in power under the curve for the f80 vs e92. the massive power under the curve difference is the reason that the f80 will be quicker in every RPM, every gear, every situation. at lower RPMs, it would be a massive beatdown.

if the s55 is actually under-rated compared to the s65, (which definitely wasn't under-rated), the performance gap will be even larger.

the second graph is a real world same dyno comparison of a n54 in the 1m vs the s65 in the m3. the s55 should make much more power than the 1m, and hold power stronger to redline by a large margin per BMW and as expected from larger turbos. notice the huge difference in power under the curve in the midrange. that is how the 1m is basically just as quick as the m3, and is faster when tuned. its also why cars like the 911 turbo and gtr are so damn fast, even from a roll. huge average power under the curve.

Thanks for that. HOPEFULLY he will understand. I'm hedging my bets in favor of the contrary however.

[Golfgeek]

Are there seat belts for 3 pax in the back?
Seems like there is (lock mechs) but I didn't see the middle shoulder strap.