Sportauto supertest Nurburgring and Hockenheim laptimes: 7.52 / 1:12.18 min

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Andy Priaulx (former WTC champion and current BMW DTM driver)... said "Every year the Ring is being constantly resurfaced, and it has got faster and faster because of this".

Sounds quite reasonable. It sure would be great to have an estimate, even a crude one, of how much faster...

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Tony B

A couple of days ago I mentioned that comparing times from 2007 with times from 2014 was not comparing like with like, as the Ring is constantly being re-surfaced, with several sections becoming much smoother.

Some rude sarcastic laughter was heard from the other side of the pond.

Well....strangely, today I was at Brands Hatch (driving the F80 M3 amongst several other cars) and one of our hosts was Andy Priaulx (former WTC champion and current BMW DTM driver).

He was talking about driving on the Ring.

He said "Every year the Ring is being constantly resurfaced, and it has got faster and faster because of this".

I did not put words in his mouth.

Just sayin.....as you chaps would say

So then every car that has been driven at the Ring since they started resurfacing it is, in actuality, no faster than cars from years ago. And I'm sure that the subject just popped up in the course of conversation, without any input from you. And I'm sure that Andy wasn't just being polite.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So then every car that has been driven at the Ring since they started resurfacing it is, in actuality, no faster than cars from years ago. And I'm sure that the subject just popped up in the course of conversation, without any input from you. And I'm sure that Andy wasn't just being polite.

It is near impossible to determine what impact, if any, the resurfacing had anyway other than anecdotal stuff. Unless you drove a car prior to and then the exact same car, same driver, after how can anyone tell? I wonder if anyone has actually timed the same car before and after?

This discussion is like a merry-go-round... it never ends

[BimmerBoomer]

When the E46 M3 broke in late 2000 - I got one of the first ones in Canada - it was quicker than the current 996 Carrera S. Oh how the times have changed.

[Tony B]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So then every car that has been driven at the Ring since they started resurfacing it is, in actuality, no faster than cars from years ago. And I'm sure that the subject just popped up in the course of conversation, without any input from you. And I'm sure that Andy wasn't just being polite.

The usual illogical leaps from the over emotional. Is your reasoning on everything else in life so illogical?

No, I did not put any words in Andy's mouth.

It was a lunchtime chat by Andy (plus another BMW works driver) about a whole load of stuff. Audience of about 60 people, MC with a microphone.

I said nothing, but had a little inward chuckle at the timing of his statement.

No, instead all your sarcastic sniping, why don't you just see the logic of my statement - the only meaningful comparison is - same driver/same day.

And end of the old line, versus start of the new line.

Don't obfuscate with the M3GTS stuff either, as it is irrelevant in the context of series production cars. Likewise the crap about the next improved version of F8x M3.

Best of the old series production v best of the new series production.

Simple.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Tony B

The usual illogical leaps from the over emotional. Is your reasoning on everything else in life so illogical?

No, I did not put any words in Andy's mouth.

It was a lunchtime chat by Andy (plus another BMW works driver) about a whole load of stuff. Audience of about 60 people, MC with a microphone.

I said nothing, but had a little inward chuckle at the timing of his statement.

No, instead all your sarcastic sniping, why don't you just see the logic of my statement - the only meaningful comparison is - same driver/same day.

And end of the old line, versus start of the new line.

Don't obfuscate with the M3GTS stuff either, as it is irrelevant in the context of series production cars. Likewise the crap about the next improved version of F8x M3.

Best of the old series production v best of the new series production.

Simple.

Best of old series vs best of (current) new series on the same day and same driver would definitely be the best comparison we could hope for

The M3 GTS only served as an example on how much effort it took for the E92 platform to go 4s faster than the F82 (and the GTS was tested in 2010 on a track that is closer to the 2014 "tarmac spec" than the E92 M3 supertest from 2007 ).

[FogCityM3]

I think we should start a campaign to write SportAuto to do this comparo, would be great for magazine sales and would be a very informative comparison, no matter what the ultimate outcome.

Originally Posted by Boss330

Best of old series vs best of (current) new series on the same day and same driver would definitely be the best comparison we could hope for

The M3 GTS only served as an example on how much effort it took for the E92 platform to go 4s faster than the F82 (and the GTS was tested in 2010 on a track that is closer to the 2014 "tarmac spec" than the E92 M3 supertest from 2007 ).

[Robin_NL]

So it's much about the tyres, we knew that already. And logically the tarmac/asphalt composition as well as we found out.
What about the driver

Edit I see that's what we re discussing already. Let it be then

Afaik it was Christian in the M4(?) and it was Horst back then in the E92 M3.

Fwiw

Cheers
Robin

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

So it's much about the tyres, we knew that already. And logically the tarmac/asphalt composition as well as we found out.
What about the driver

Edit I see that's what we re discussing already. Let it be then

Afaik it was Christian in the M4(?) and it was Horst back then in the E92 M3.

Fwiw

Cheers
Robin

It's still HvS doing the Supertest laps for Sport Auto, so same driver.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Boss330

It's still HvS doing the Supertest laps for Sport Auto, so same driver.

You're right.

Finally bought the mag today

Anyway, probably brought up here a few pages ago but talking about some dynamic capabilities of the M4 shown in Sportauto's test from 'worst' to 'best':

36 meter slalom:
C63PP AMG Coupé 133kmh
M4 Coupé 136kmh
1M Coupé 137kmh
M3 E92(Sporttyres) 138kmh
991 Carrera S 139kmh

G forces:
C63PP AMG Coupé 1.25G
M3 E92 1.25G
M4 Coupé 1.3G
1M Coupé 1.3G
RS5 1.3G
Carrera S 1.4G

Elktest(so to speak)
RS5 145kmh
M3 E92 146kmh
C63 PP AMG Coupé 147kmh
Alpina B3 147kmh
1M Coupé 149kmh
M4 Coupé 151kmh
Carrera S 156kmh

Aerodynamics/lift/downforce @ 200kmh:
RS5 40kg lift front/ rear 3kg lift
M4 24 lift front/ 12 lift rear
M3 E92 10kg lift front/ 23 rear
1M Coupé 5kg downforce front/ 37 kg lift rear (need to buy the rearspoiler)
Alpina B3 6 lift front/ 3 lift rear
Carrera S 2 downforce front/ 0 (ZERO) lift/downforce rear.


For what it's worth

Cheers
Robin

[stressdoc]

Interesting that SA has the P 911s faster in 36m slalom; in Auto Motor und Sport (June 2014) the M4 faster (151.7 vs. 147.8 kph) in their slalom dodge test.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=998419

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Interesting that SA has the P 911s faster in 36m slalom; in Auto Motor und Sport (June 2014) the M4 faster (151.7 vs. 147.8 kph) in their slalom dodge test.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=998419

Not too interesting to me... Slalom is just like all other test, depends on driver and conditions.

[Robin_NL]

Two different cars and drivers yes. AMS used a black (?) 6MT and Sportauto a ymb 7DKG.

BTW topictitle says Hockenheim Short 1:12.18. Too much credit for the M4. It's 1:12.8

They also stated: A E92 M3 6MT did 1608kgs back then, that's only just 15kgs difference with the M4 6MT.


Cheers
Robin

[delvek]

Wow, how the heck did this M4 do so poorly on the ring? Official lap time of 7:52!

The 2013 Shelby GT500 which is insane in straight line managed to do it in 7:39.

Maybe this isnt the place for this, for years I owned BMW and modified them through Hartge and ran them often on the Ring, I moved back to the USA this year and was checking up on the new M's and was just suprised.

I think they look very nice although the exhaust sound doesnt not sound throaty like a M should.

[04RC51]

You shouldn't get one then.

[MaynardZed]

7:52 is terrible, don't know why BMW even bothers.

[SakhirM4]

I can't believe I bought such a CRAPPY, SLOW car!!!

[m3incorp]

Really? You do understand that just because someone finds flaws in the car doesn't mean they shouldn't get it. If that was the case, we would all be walking. All the OP said was he thought it would do better on the "Ring". Some cars do great on the "Ring" and some not quiet as great. I thought the Stingray forum was bad for people automatically jumping on someone that finds a flaw in the car, let's not let this forum go in the same direction.

Originally Posted by 04RC51

You shouldn't get one then.

[Wah]

I demand a refund!

[FogCityM3]

For a car that was supposed to match the GTS in performance and that the B3 Alpina GT had a faster time with lower bhp, would have thought that ~470 bhp should have cracked the 7:4x mark. 7:52 is nonetheless a great time for a sedan.

[ES_TRADER]

Wasn't it only a few seconds faster than e9x?

[Doctor///M]

try the M3, it's better