Supercharged M3 VS M4

[RingMeister01]

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[Diver]

Wicked numbers, but I have heard stories of drivers removing their superchargers because they could not manage the car at the track.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Diver

Wicked numbers, but I have heard stories of drivers removing their superchargers because they could not manage the car at the track.

Manage what, the power?! I'd be surprised of that cause the power comes in a very linear way, it should be much easier to manage then the power delevery of the S55!

The only story I've eard of someone taking off its supercharger for the track was Radiant and it was mostly because of the heat that the blower produced, the problem was that he had a non-intercooled kit, I'm sure if he had put a VT2-585 instead of a VT1, he would still have in on his car. Many people track their VT2 cars and absolutly love it!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Manage what, the power?! I'd be surprised of that cause the power comes in a very linear way, it should be much easier to manage then the power delevery of the S55!

The only story I've eard of someone taking off its supercharger for the track was Radiant and it was mostly because of the heat that the blower produced, the problem was that he had a non-intercooled kit, I'm sure if he had put a VT2-585 instead of a VT1, he would still have in on his car. Many people track their VT2 cars and absolutly love it!

Multiple track guys removed inter cooled kits here in Houston.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Multiple track guys removed inter cooled kits here in Houston.

Do you have any idea why they did that?

[Fuman]

Originally Posted by jackkk

I think that the FBO+meth M4 will be something close or the same like VT-625 M3.
As Terry showed us, that the car on sport gas can reach 530whp with the stock exhaust...
So the potential is very nice! Like 335i RB turbos + meth with the DCT.

Finally someone who knows what he's talking about!

[Brosef]

I tracked my VT2 575 hard in the dog days of summer here in Chicago, which is hitter than you might guess (and way more humid). there were a few days where it dipped over 100 with high humidity, but never much more than that. still, many cars couldn't come close to handling that heat with 25 minute sessions, let alone with that kind of added power under the hood. no question - the S65 has a tremendous cooling infrastructure.

[WERKE]

Looks like our friends at ESS trying consever their goodwill …! Fair enough

[Wes Howell]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Multiple track guys removed inter cooled kits here in Houston.

I'd be interested to hear more about that.

My E92 with Vt-2 625 / intercooled kit ran 20 degrees hotter on average than my buddies VF540. (non intercooler) In Utah (4500 feet elevation) it went into limp mode more than I would have liked and ran pretty hot overall. It barely pulled on the VF Kit.

One of the few guys with an ESS SC kit out here also blew his motor. (spun bearing)

FWIW - Roman did recommend a non-intercooled kit to me- but I didn't take his advice.

[RingMeister01]

I had a 585 kit that I tracked multiple times without any problems what so ever. It's such an amazing kit. The e9x are very forgiving cars and I doubt anyone took off a kit not being able to handle the power, unless it scared them!

[K20A2_S]

Internet hypothetical bench racing.

So hot.

What else would I read on slow monday mornings??...lol...

If I was a track whore, didn't care about MPG and warranty. SC E92 for sure.

I'm not a track whore, I do care about having a warranty and peace of mind (I actually have other hobbies and family obligations than dealing with broken down cars). Hence I ordered new M3 vs getting used and putting saved money towards mods.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I had a 585 kit that I tracked multiple times without any problems what so ever. It's such an amazing kit. The e9x are very forgiving cars and I doubt anyone took off a kit not being able to handle the power, unless it scared them!

I have never had issues with my supercharged M3's on the track over the years and that includes my VT1 non-intercooled kit. The worst scenario I ever had was simply having a little less power when it was hot out but that is a given. We have many customers that run our supercharger systems at the track without heat issues but I have talked to some that have. The reality is that even a stock E9X M3 can run hot on track days given the correct conditions. The type of track you run, the quality of fuel used and the way one drives his or her car will often determine how reliable the car will be during track use. My suggestion for serious track guys and gals is to upgrade the stock cooling system, be mindful of how much time you are spending at the RPM limit and always run race gas. These will help keep temps in check supercharged or not.

We will have to see how the F8X cooling system holds up stock and with additional power during track use in the coming months. The early reports seem to be pretty positive.

[tom @ eas]

Ran the VT2-625 system for a number of track events (HPDE, Airstrip and drags) with little to no different in heating than typical NA setups:



Any S65 will heat up with heavy track use, supercharged or not. Upgrading the oil cooler and utilizing a misting system definitely helps on hot track days.

[Wes Howell]

Which one is it? Car runs just as cool as OEM or you need to to upgrade oil cooler, misting system, etc? That post seems a bit contradictory don't you think?

I had mine installed twice - both times by master BMW techs and I had heat issues. I'm sure higher elevation didn't help me. My car definitely ran better at sea level.

The F82 is much happier.

[Kriston]

Roman congrats on the M4!

To me the E9X M's are no competition to the M4. The real test is to see how the M4 stands up to the Mighty C63. BMW owners are only catching up now to the TQ #'s the MB guys have been enjoying for years.

From what I see a FBO M4 vs. FBO C63 look pretty damn close. Im curious to see how they stack up against each other.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

I have never had issues with my supercharged M3's on the track over the years and that includes my VT1 non-intercooled kit. The worst scenario I ever had was simply having a little less power when it was hot out but that is a given. We have many customers that run our supercharger systems at the track without heat issues but I have talked to some that have. The reality is that even a stock E9X M3 can run hot on track days given the correct conditions. The type of track you run, the quality of fuel used and the way one drives his or her car will often determine how reliable the car will be during track use. My suggestion for serious track guys and gals is to upgrade the stock cooling system, be mindful of how much time you are spending at the RPM limit and always run race gas. These will help keep temps in check supercharged or not.

We will have to see how the F8X cooling system holds up stock and with additional power during track use in the coming months. The early reports seem to be pretty positive.

Yes. I always compared temps with fellow M3 track junkies that were not sc'd and my M always was on par with their temps during the day. I was even running slightly cooler on the higher speed tracks than they were.

And thanks Roman for answering all my questions when I first got the kit. Izzy and Aleks are to blame!!

[tom @ eas]

Not really. A NA M3 will heat up just about as quickly if pushed on the track. The biggest issue is placement of the front mounted heat exchanger, which is directly in front of the factory oil cooler. Power steering takes a beating also as the stock cooler can't keep up.

S54 (E46M3/Z4M) even has their share of cooling limits.

Upgrading cooling components is a must if looking to really get aggressive, whether it be NA or S/C. Looking forward to getting our M4 on the track to see some real-world comparisons, but from appearance - it seems the F82 is better equipped on the cooling side.

Originally Posted by Wes Howell

Which one is it? Car runs just as cool as OEM or you need to to upgrade oil cooler, misting system, etc? That post seems a bit contradictory don't you think?

I had mine installed twice - both times by master BMW techs and I had heat issues. I'm sure higher elevation didn't help me. My car definitely ran better at sea level.

The F82 is much happier.

[surewin]

Originally Posted by Boss330

And you are basing that claim on exactly what?

I meant to say c63, but same difference. I'm basing my opinion on numerous track battle tests:

Happy viewing

[surewin]

Originally Posted by //M sa

Lmao good one so a stock e92 will eat the new m? Good one glad that you can back that shit up.

When did I say anything about a new M? I was referring to AMG cars, and comparing lap times on a circuit. Sorry if you're confused. Maybe I can make things simpler for you. This is how lap times will compare with these cars. Since you brought up the M4, I'll include that:

M4 > E92 M3 > C63 AMG > S55 AMG

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by surewin

When did I say anything about a new M? I was referring to AMG cars, and comparing lap times on a circuit. Sorry if you're confused. Maybe I can make things simpler for you. This is how lap times will compare with these cars. Since you brought up the M4, I'll include that:

M4 > E92 M3 > C63 AMG > S55 AMG

I think everyone thought you were saying S55- as in the M3/4 with S55 engine...

[Kriston]

If you are going to make a post about lap times, you better be sure you are right.

Just a FYI the Face Lift C63's are quicker around the ring compared to the E9X M's.

Originally Posted by surewin

When did I say anything about a new M? I was referring to AMG cars, and comparing lap times on a circuit. Sorry if you're confused. Maybe I can make things simpler for you. This is how lap times will compare with these cars. Since you brought up the M4, I'll include that:

M4 > E92 M3 > C63 AMG > S55 AMG

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by surewin

When did I say anything about a new M? I was referring to AMG cars, and comparing lap times on a circuit. Sorry if you're confused. Maybe I can make things simpler for you. This is how lap times will compare with these cars. Since you brought up the M4, I'll include that:

M4 > E92 M3 > C63 AMG > S55 AMG

S55 engine...