05-16-2014, 12:20 PM | #89 | |
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And it all comes down to #1 Chassis stiffness combined with wheelbase and track #2 Tires & suspension tuning This to me is more important than the engine and I will be thrilled if BMW hit it spot on. |
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05-16-2014, 12:24 PM | #91 |
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People spend thousands of dollars on aftermarket exhaust systems to improve the engine note.
Chris Harris thinks engine note is not important on a dd. Lol |
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05-16-2014, 12:26 PM | #92 |
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People spend thousands on new wheels that don't add an iota of performance and are just for looks. What's your point?
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05-16-2014, 12:29 PM | #93 |
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Not sure if that's the best way to put it. There are plenty of non-biased journalists out there (that don't get enough credit), but there's always a hint of bias in even the most objective ones. Chris does a great job of looking at things from a realistic perspective, and he's rather self-admitted when it comes to any bias. That transparency is always appreciated.
It's a shame that so many people refuse to listen to other publications and hold their breath until he has his word in. I think it unfairly devalues other journalists' opinions.
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05-16-2014, 12:38 PM | #94 |
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Same reason why some spend hundreds of thousands on old Ferraris, Lambo with NA engines with less performance than even a 335i. Engine note is a big part of the experience to some.
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05-16-2014, 12:43 PM | #95 |
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Nice read, can't wait for the video...I need to stop looking at f80 articles/reviews before I find myself putting a down payment on one
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05-16-2014, 12:49 PM | #97 | |
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Also Not necessarily a V8 sound, but a good sound |
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05-16-2014, 12:51 PM | #98 | |
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05-16-2014, 12:58 PM | #99 | |
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I still think that other journalists can evaluate a car's qualitative properties honestly and accurately, but the context they look at it might be out of touch with the real world. Some mags will focus on a purist approach which I'm not overly fond of. Others focus too much on the numbers - or the safety and practicality on the flipside. Harris does a great job of touching on the numbers but focusing on the actual matter at hand: evaluating the car at face value.
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05-16-2014, 01:01 PM | #100 | |
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05-16-2014, 01:05 PM | #101 |
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05-16-2014, 01:06 PM | #102 | |
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05-16-2014, 01:11 PM | #103 |
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Well aware, that has scared me away from many cars, just bcuz this an m3 does not make it immune.
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05-16-2014, 01:15 PM | #104 | |
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- why is 'high rpm to the detriment of low rpm' better than 'consistent and solid throughout'? - why, in general, would high rpm be a specifically desireable thing? (i mean, yes, it sounds nice and can be fun to redline a car out....but for most driving, it makes it more difficult and for anything that isnt tracking, it just means to get that power you are going to waste a bajillion extra litres of gas....) Curious is all. |
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05-16-2014, 01:16 PM | #105 | ||
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As far as the 1, 2, and 3 points from your post are concerned, though, I think it's almost comical how the interpretations of people are so vastly different depending on whether they want to love or hate the F8X. I'm personally in the "want to love it" crowd, although I have the luxury of not being married to the car given that I haven't put money down yet (this MIGHT be because I don't have an easily expendable 80,000 dollars burning a hole in my pocket right now, but that's neither here nor there!). With that said, though, I think your interpretation of Chris's review is a little optimistic here: On Point 1, he didn't seem "a little" disappointed by the sound, he seemed a LOT disappointed by the sound. He said he literally "laughed out loud" when hearing it, and he described it as sounding like a "mapped 335d"! He also used the term "weird" and stated that it didn't have the classic BMW straight six sound that he enjoyed in the M235i. His final thoughts were that the performance of the engine made the sound a "non-issue" for him and that he "almost liked it" by the end--but that he'd prefer listening to the radio. His overall impression of the engine was positive, but I don't understand how you could read his review of the SOUND specifically as positive or just "a little" disappointed. On Point 2, I think you hit the nail on the head with your description, but your up front conclusion "Maybe you give a LITTLE here" again seems very skewed. When talking about rush to redline, Chris Harris doesn't seem to think the F8X lags just a little behind. At least to me, it seems--when talking "rush to redline" and nothing else--he finds it to be a big difference. He lauds the "deranged V8 model's zap and DTM blare beyond 7,500rpm" and can only say the S55 is "worth revving out to 7,500rpm." Ultimately, he views the S55 as a big improvement over the S65--but not in terms of this rush to redline. He states that opportunities to enjoy the S65 above 7,000 RPMs are limited in daily driving and that "for everyday use, the torque, the sheer speed and the range make the new gizzards--for me--far more appealing." I fully agree that Chris Harris ultimately finds the new engine better, but I don't think we can interpret what he wrote as refuting E9X fanboy's claims that the S55 has been a step backwards in rush to redline from the S65. (However, I think we CAN safely interpret that he ultimately views the virtues of the new engine as a daily driver as far outweighing this drawback). On Point 3, I personally feel very good about the car's throttle response from Chris Harris's review. I especially liked hearing that "the response was always there" mid-corner, which was a particular concern of mine. For you to write, "None that he could tell" though when discussing potential loss of throttle response is a little slanted. He even directly stated that "Compared to, say, an E46 you lose a tiny amount of instant zap." Now, to me, this seems to be a STELLAR review, considering that the new car is turbocharged (read: prone to losing throttle response in the form of turbo lag) and he states "I didn't have any problem" with it overall. Still, though, I prefer to be upfront and honest about its throttle response being NEARLY as good as naturally aspirated, instead of being off the mark and stating there's no difference (which just leaves room for the fanboys to attack). By the end of this post, I'm sure the F8X knights templar will have branded me an E9X apologist, but I promise you that I am not. I enjoy my E92, but it is not a perfect car, and I am certainly not clinging to it. I am interested in the F8X as my potential next car in 18-24 months (although I'm leaning towards something lighter possibly), and I think this review by Chris Harris was OVERWHELMINGLY positive. If people bring up those three points though as flaws of the F8X (sound, rush to redline, and throttle response), I don't think I'll be using Chris Harris's review to prove them wrong. His review seems to indicate that these things are not necessarily important (or at least not deal breakers) in a high performance street car/DD--and not that they are somehow equal or better than previous generations of M3. |
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05-16-2014, 01:18 PM | #106 |
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LOL...last night you were saying where's the Chris Harris review so we can get the true story, and now you say that Sutcliffe is his equal, because he picked another car for the sound it makes. Maybe they should sumo wrestle so you can pick?
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05-16-2014, 01:19 PM | #107 | |
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To me, there are only two guys who can truly articulate the essence of what it means to drive a particular car into words. Chris Harris and Harry Catchpole. There are other guys who are close (like Jethro Bovington) and then there are most of the rest, who are either hacks, press-whores, or buffoons. The thing that does it for me is exactly what Chris did in this article - give you perspective. Compare it to cars to give you an idea of what it's like, as well as what it's not like. Compare it to cars that you SHOULD compare it to for perspective, not ones you shouldn't compare it to because they are "market rivals". Face it, despite the E92 and the C63 AMG both being C-class sized coupes with V8's and DCT's, their mission and driving sensations couldn't be more different. One is not going to drive those two and say, "I'm buying car XX because it's executed it's mission 'better'." You buy it because those things that you value higher than others are better represented in that car you chose. Like with a Macca 650S vs. a Speciale. You can't tell me that one of those cars is BETTER. They are DIFFERENT and what's better for you is not necessarily better for me. Chris and Harry don't fall into that trap. Sutcliffe did. |
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05-16-2014, 01:23 PM | #108 | |
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Anyway, while saying a review is 'positive' or 'negative' is always a bit of an interpretive thing (the review speaks for itself, afterall) I would tend to agree with @sapper_m3's assessment. I think we can conclude the sound is only a bit of a disappointment and that the high rpm performace (which I don't see him as saying is bad, just different/less of a rush than E90) is also minor because of his overall conclusions. It is clear (as you later note) he loves the car. He says he would buy one. So, if you want guidance on whether those are 'minor' or 'major', the fact they don't push him off the 'I would get this and I love it and it fixes the problems with the E90' conclusion tell you they are minor. By contrast, the Sutcliffe video review where he calls the sound a "major caveat" show a much bigger reservation. For him, the sound is a major problem. For Harris, as he says, he almost likes it by the end of some spirited driving. |
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05-16-2014, 01:23 PM | #109 | ||
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