OBD unlock and bootmod3

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Commando

So I'm assuming that special OBD adapter is needed, the one that costs 1900 euros at magicmotorsports?

So either the end consumer buys that adapter, or a tuning shop buys one...but flashing the f-series without that adapter isn't possible?

No way they’d do 1900 euros for anything that’d be insane.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Commando

So I'm assuming that special OBD adapter is needed, the one that costs 1900 euros at magicmotorsports?

So either the end consumer buys that adapter, or a tuning shop buys one...but flashing the f-series without that adapter isn't possible?

No you wouldn't need a 1900 euro adapter/cable.

[Mountain_Commando]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

No you wouldn't need a 1900 euro adapter/cable.

But that adapter is mandatory as I understand it. Meaning the only way you can unlock is by taking the car to a tuning shop which does have the adapter (probably one of PTF's associate shops).

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Commando

But that adapter is mandatory as I understand it. Meaning the only way you can unlock is by taking the car to a tuning shop which does have the adapter (probably one of PTF's associate shops).

The adapter needed and currently being sold for the end user by all the other tuners is a fraction of this cost. Not sure what PTF has in the works exactly, but I assume it will be a cost effective solution.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

The adapter needed and currently being sold for the end user by all the other tuners is a fraction of this cost. Not sure what PTF has in the works exactly, but I assume it will be a cost effective solution.

Is it Frieling cables that those other guys use you mean? Their website shows them at like $175-185 not 1900.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

Is it Frieling cables that those other guys use you mean? Their website shows them at like $175-185 not 1900.

Yep. Hence why I said it won't be 1900 and it will be a fraction of that cost

[Mountain_Commando]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Yep. Hence why I said it won't be 1900 and it will be a fraction of that cost

There have been many different kinds of cables that fit the OBD port. For example, Frieling themselves have a $1,300 cable...whilst you can do non-DME coding with a $30 cable.

It was generally believed that the F-series DME simply couldn't be unlocked via a purely software (i.e. non-invasive, no hardware/bench involved) route.

Thus, when magicmotorsport released their proprietary KDCAN cable costing 1900 euros, it seemed that theirs was a sort of 'hybrid' solution...involving a specialized cable (hence the extreme cost) combined with a software unlock.

However, with the release of a certain competitor's (name withheld since this is PTF's thread) pure OBD only unlock and flash, the game has potentially changed. PTF haven't release complete details of their F-series flash yet, but it would be interesting to see how they compete against the former's solution which has no hardware dependency.

[wjjkoevoets]

I am a bit confused at the moment with regards to ODB vs bench flashing.

The initial post mentions:

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Unlocking over OBD does not perform a full readout like unlocking on bench does. Currently the only way to fully restore any given DME back to full stock software including flash counters is still via open/bench flash and for that reason we'll be offering both options still to end users depending on their needs.

Then in a later post:

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Current tools/cables released that have OBD unlock support already such as Magic Motorsports, Frieling (many vendors that announced OBD unlock on this forum use this tool provider), CMD, can produce full 4MB readout files that can be used to activate and run with BM3. BM3's DME read feature that has been expanded recently will provide those already unlocked by some tuner out there (regardless of method) an easy way to activate without pulling the DME again as well which will make it super easy to get on board with it, get custom tuned and use anything in BM3 you'd like.

More to follow very soon...

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what is being said here, but does this mean OBD unlocking will soon no longer have any disadvantages as compared to bench unlocking?

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

I am a bit confused at the moment with regards to ODB vs bench flashing.

The initial post mentions:


Then in a later post:


Maybe I'm misinterpreting what is being said here, but does this mean OBD unlocking will soon no longer have any disadvantages as compared to bench unlocking?

1. Regarding the two statements you highlighted in bold: What is meant is that although the readout file obtained from those companies using the new Frieling tool can be used to activate BM3 (BM3 requires a 4MB readout file and not a 2MB partial readout file that some companies used in the past), it is not considered a "full" DME readout as it still doesn't capture some essential data such as flash counter and other "environmental" data that some tuners have vaguely eluded to (which to my understanding have to do with recorded data in the DME memory about max RPM, vehicle speed?).

2. Some companies have announced that they have found a way to "freeze" the flash counter using the Frieling tools unlock method, however, I do not believe any of them have pushed this new patch to customers as of yet. To my knowledge even the Frieling software used by all those companies up til version 843 that all of them were using till Dec 31st did not accept modified bootloaders (which needs to be modified to "freeze" the flash counter). I expect it to become available soon, but I do not believe it has been implemented yet.

3. To answer your last question, yes I believe soon there will be no benefit to bench flashing.

[aboulfad]

^^^
1. It seems, but not entirely sure, the new OBD2 unlock method in one flavour reads at a minimum the 512Kb swfl 260* (which I suspect is “tuning/calibration” maps) and maybe re-flashes a modified bootloader and SWFL 260*

As mentioned by two different vendors across the Internet, they reconstitute the remaining stock DME software (BTLD 1A83, SWFL 1A83) from a database of psdZs to arrive to a 4Mb file (PMU0/1: BTLD, swfl 260*,swfl 1A84) which could be flashed back just as Esys does.

The “special” area, aka 64kb DFLASH, seems to be a mystery, that no one shed any light on - wether it can be read and written back, and/or erased thru OBD, and it’s contents.

3. So based on the contents of that “special” area, OBD unlock could still be a lesser full read than bench method. And we may never will know...unless someone speaks out with such details and wether it is ever relevant to anything!

[M3anPower]

So you guys are saying bm3 will have more readout and advanced hardware than the current obd tune?

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by ///M1990

So you guys are saying bm3 will have more readout and advanced hardware than the current obd tune?

What led you to make that assumption? no one knows publicly what PTF OBD unlock method will offer. I think the limitations (DFLASH R/W) I elude to above are most likely common to all vendors offering OBD unlock.

[Vectors2final]

I just came here for the week of Jan 2nd update, if any.

[swifty]

Same here. Lots of ppl waiting to hear FM these guys.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

^^^
1. It seems, but not entirely sure, the new OBD2 unlock method in one flavour reads at a minimum the 512Kb swfl 260* (which I suspect is “tuning/calibration” maps) and maybe re-flashes a modified bootloader and SWFL 260*

As mentioned by two different vendors across the Internet, they reconstitute the remaining stock DME software (BTLD 1A83, SWFL 1A83) from a database of psdZs to arrive to a 4Mb file (PMU0/1: BTLD, swfl 260*,swfl 1A84) which could be flashed back just as Esys does.

The “special” area, aka 64kb DFLASH, seems to be a mystery, that no one shed any light on - wether it can be read and written back, and/or erased thru OBD, and it’s contents.

3. So based on the contents of that “special” area, OBD unlock could still be a lesser full read than bench method. And we may never will know...unless someone speaks out with such details and wether it is ever relevant to anything!

1. Yes you are correct on this one. The way the Frieling tool works is it does a partial read and then the tuners construct a full 4MB readout file using the database of psdZs. But what I mean is the end result is you will have a full 4MB readout file regardless of how it is obtained to avoid confusion for others.

Regarding the DFLASH part of the DME, to my knowledge that this area is NOT readable via OBD. The only way to read it is via the bench method.

3. The OBD unlock method does in fact read less parts (such as DFLASH) of the DME that are only possible via the bench method. But are those areas of any use/benefit to most end users? Plus even if a customer for whatever reason wanted to restore those "special parts" of the DME such as DFLASH or any other memory areas, they'd need to do by bench flashing as well.

Assuming this flash counter freeze hack that is floating around is true, for most end users this is what they'll mostly care about when comparing to the bench method and hence why I said that the bench method would no longer offer any benefits over OBD method.

[aboulfad]

Flash counter is the least of concerns if some are aiming for "tune invisibility" but does not hurt to have it.... as to what and if the 64Kb DFLASH is important, the jury is still out and I wish someone can educate us.

Also, I think flash counter bypass/freeze/reset has nothing to do with the readout, I believe some very smart people found out how to deal with it from the bootloader so this hack isn't related to a full/partial DME read.

PS: BuLoOoSki something just dawned on me, if tuners/hackers can only read that area using a bench method, then what use is it also for BMW !!! or does BMW yet has another trick up their sleeve that hasn't been hacked yet. Our cars have an EDR, I wonder if it stored in that 64Kb DFLASH...

[Brasko]

In it to win it.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Flash counter is the least of concerns if some are aiming for "tune invisibility" but does not hurt to have it.... as to what and if the 64Kb DFLASH is important, the jury is still out and I wish someone can educate us.

I agree.

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Also, I think flash counter bypass/freeze/reset has nothing to do with the readout, I believe some very smart people found out how to deal with it from the bootloader so this hack isn't related to a full/partial DME read.

If you know someone who has flash counter reset figured out and applied let me know, I'd love to use his services I'm not joking, I'd really want to be able to reset my counter. I know of one person who seems to be a legitimate source that he actually figured a way to freeze the flash counter via a hack using the bootloader, but don't believe that has been implemented yet. Regarding flash counter bypass, I believe PTF have already done that a long time ago. You are able to bypass the flash counter limit and flash more than 60 flashes. The only problem with that is if you pass 60 flashes I'd assume you can only keeping flashing with BM3 until the others figure out a way to bypass that as well.

Originally Posted by aboulfad

PS: BuLoOoSki something just dawned on me, if tuners/hackers can only read that area using a bench method, then what use is it also for BMW !!! or does BMW yet has another trick up their sleeve that hasn't been hacked yet. Our cars have an EDR, I wonder if it stored in that 64Kb DFLASH...

Well let me rephrase, not readable for those without BMW tools and software I could be wrong though. This is all based on my understanding since as you know a lot of this information is offered vaguely.

[aboulfad]

BuLoOoSki , it was claimed by two vendors that flash counter manipulation has been done...and is available now.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

BuLoOoSki , it was claimed by two vendors that flash counter manipulation has been done...and is available now.

I'm aware of that But I've asked and neither of them have yet had this patch done to a customer as of a few days ago, and that's why I say it has not been implemented yet. Not sure of the exact details to why that is the case....but although its announced it hasn't been done yet. Don't you get cheeky with me with you search button mister

[hatepotholez]

any updates proTUNING Freaks

[swifty]

Originally Posted by hatepotholez

any updates proTUNING Freaks

They msgd. Working on OBD but trying different method to get as much data out while flashing.