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      06-21-2014, 09:59 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
The most relevent numbers are that this car makes approximately 50-60 whp more than the highest reading e9x m3s on this same dyno.
Right, believe this is the most important takeaway here. Which means the power (425 hp) is grossly underrated.
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      06-21-2014, 10:15 AM   #46
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Some great info in here, many thanks to Tom and Josh.
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      06-21-2014, 10:21 AM   #47
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That's impressive, thanks for that and all the pictures. As I said before, BMW HP numbers are always underrated. I'd love to know exactly what HP and TQ numbers we're really talking about here....
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      06-21-2014, 10:30 AM   #48
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WOW!!! Just WOW. I'm about to get on an airplane to go get me one of these toys from the mothership.

I think I'm going to like my new toy.
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      06-21-2014, 10:31 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by M4TW
WOW!!! Just WOW. I'm about to get on an airplane to go get me one of these toys from the mothership.

I think I'm going to like my new toy.
When do you leave for ED?
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      06-21-2014, 10:44 AM   #50
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Nice info

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Here's what we've all been waiting for! This being the first F80 at our facility, forum member tightie decided to inspect this Yas Marina Blue M3 on a lift, weigh it on the scales and strap it to our dyno.
Thanks for all the great photos and info. Noticed those extended hubs should really help with wheel changes (no hanger required), but will they cause fit problems with some wheels? Did you happen to notice who made the wheels (mfr's. mark on back)? I think E9X 19s were Fuchs or Ronal?
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      06-21-2014, 10:49 AM   #51
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So F8x has 50HP and 130TQ more to the wheels and weighs 200 lbs less than E9x. That's a serious difference that cannot be ignored no matter what engine is powering it.

What gear was this dyno?
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      06-21-2014, 11:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Thanks for all the great photos and info. Noticed those extended hubs should really help with wheel changes (no hanger required), but will they cause fit problems with some wheels? Did you happen to notice who made the wheels (mfr's. mark on back)? I think E9X 19s were Fuchs or Ronal?
Possibly. Rear hub lip has increased +3mm, but we'll start playing with track wheel fitment as cars start rolling in. We've already had a set of TE37s mounted on another M3, but 18" would not fit over the front calipers with Ceramic brakes.

Not sure on wheel manufacturer, didn't see any obvious markings.
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      06-21-2014, 11:15 AM   #53
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Wow, it took 20mm spacers to get the stock 19s flush? I wonder why BMW chose such high offsets? Seems like it should be rightfully running similar stock offsets to the E9x M3.
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      06-21-2014, 11:16 AM   #54
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Dynojet produces very high horsepower results. If we believe dynojet, then M5 CP makes 665hp crank and 600 ft/lb torque. I mean how likely is that. BMW underrated M5 by 90 horses and 100 torque? Why is there such huge disparity between MAHA dyno and dynojet?
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      06-21-2014, 11:22 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3rStig View Post
Dynojet produces very high horsepower results. If we believe dynojet, then M5 CP makes 665hp crank and 600 ft/lb torque. I mean how likely is that. BMW underrated M5 by 90 horses and 100 torque? Why is there such huge disparity between MAHA dyno and dynojet?
Doesn't sound that far fetched to me, especially if you carry the perspective that BMW produced published HP/TQ figures that could be achieved even on the worst day, thus consistency across the line. Imagine if, on a bad day, this car produced no more power than the outgoing car. People would be pissed!
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      06-21-2014, 11:30 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
412 avg SAE over 3 runs

-20-25 because we all know the EAS dyno reads high

390 + 12% for DT loss = 436.8

Holding out for the more realistic Edmunds dyno.

Thanks for posting pics. Very nice.

Is there a single drain on the oil pan?
I'm a little confused by your math

An e9x makes 350-360 whp on this same dyno. If you subtract 15-20 hp from that, you are at 340 whp.

340 + 12% for dt loss is 380.8.

So, either your drivetrain loss numbers are way off or you are saying the e9x is massively overrated since it's claimed 414 hp.

Either way, I think your numbers and calculations are off.

The most relevent numbers are that this car makes approximately 50-60 whp more than the highest reading e9x m3s on this same dyno.
Just to nitpick, his (and your) math is not correct for drivetrain loss.

The proper calculation is 340/(1-0.12)=386.

I agree that his assumption still seem way off though. On typical inertia dynos, the sum of drivetrain loss, tire loss and inertial impacts are more in the 12%-18% range though. By removing 22hp and then using the lowest "drivetrain loss" number, he is sort of double dipping. And then makes it worse with the wrong math.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-21-2014 at 11:53 AM..
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      06-21-2014, 11:46 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Just to nitpick, his (and your) math is not correct for drivetrain loss.

The proper calculation is 340/0.88=386.

I agree that his assumption still seem way off though. On typical inertia dynos, the sum of drivetrain loss, tire loss and inertial impacts are more in the 15%-18% range though.
Thanks, good correction.

My point is more that trying to correct for drivetrain loss doesn't matter and is irrelevent

It's more relevent to compare the delta of the two cars on the same dyno.

That delta is 50-60 whp and 150 wtq. Big difference
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      06-21-2014, 11:48 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Thanks, good correction.

My point is more that trying to correct for drivetrain loss doesn't matter and is irrelevent

It's more relevent to compare the delta of the two cars on the same dyno.

That delta is 50-60 whp and 150 wtq. Big difference
I completely agree... huge difference really... especially when the weight is taken into account (whether it is a little lighter or a lot lighter, it is, in fact, lighter). We all know that dynos are difficult tools to measure true HP/torque and they better serve as tools for relative comparisons. The bottom line is the F8X is putting significantly more power to the wheels than the F9X regardless what the total number actually is.
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      06-21-2014, 11:49 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
It's more relevent to compare the delta of the two cars on the same dyno.

That delta is 50-60 whp. Big difference
Fully agree
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      06-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #60
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What part numbers are the spacers? I want to buy them now, so I can do this as my first mod. Not sure if it will be different for an M4.
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      06-21-2014, 12:02 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Doesn't sound that far fetched to me, especially if you carry the perspective that BMW produced published HP/TQ figures that could be achieved even on the worst day, thus consistency across the line. Imagine if, on a bad day, this car produced no more power than the outgoing car. People would be pissed!
Wow, I mean if this is true, then I'm amazed. 500 crank on this car and 660 on m5? Unbelievable. BMW did pull one out of their butt again surprised us!
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      06-21-2014, 12:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Except STD is more common and is what is typically used. Assume 10-15 high and we are at 410-415 whp which backs up the 118 traps.
STD is more common among BMW performance shops......before owning my first BMW ~6 years ago I had a number of American cars and none of the American car performance shops or the American car enthusiast crowd used STD unless they were trying to boost dyno numbers......since STD correction adds about 3-4% more power vs. SAE correction factors.

SAE is also how some car manufacturers officially certify their crank horsepower numbers. I wish everyone would use SAE personally for better apples to apples comparisons, even though dynos are meant to be a tuning tool and aren't ideal for comparison purposes anyway.
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      06-21-2014, 12:17 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3rStig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Doesn't sound that far fetched to me, especially if you carry the perspective that BMW produced published HP/TQ figures that could be achieved even on the worst day, thus consistency across the line. Imagine if, on a bad day, this car produced no more power than the outgoing car. People would be pissed!
Wow, I mean if this is true, then I'm amazed. 500 crank on this car and 660 on m5? Unbelievable. BMW did pull one out of their butt again surprised us!
People are estimating 485 crank.....maybe a lil less. I haven't followed all of the calculations, but the dyno results are consistent across multiple cars. Also, the previous turbo cars were underrated as well. The N54 was supremely overbuilt/over engineered too.
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      06-21-2014, 01:12 PM   #64
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As we knew it would, car needs wheels with different offset or spacers. Looks awesome with the spacers for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsongs View Post
As I said before, BMW HP numbers are always underrated.
Normally aspirated cars, like the E9X M3?
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      06-21-2014, 01:37 PM   #65
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With at least 20mm to play with this car should be able clear 295s with the proper wheels, spacing and tire profile, right? That would look awesome. I like wide tires
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      06-21-2014, 01:41 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
With at least 20mm to play with this car should be able clear 295s with the proper wheels, spacing and tire profile, right? That would look awesome. I like wide tires
easily

I would run at least a 10.5 inch wheel on a 295 though
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