Video: M3/M4 Review by Steve Sutcliffe (Autocar)

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by RoboM

From all reviews so far there is virtually no way 2015 C63 AMG could beat the new M3.

M3 could only be beaten by its successor.

Really? Interesting way of looking into the future.

The E92 M3 did lose a couple comparos to the LCI W204 C63. It might be the same old conundrum. C63 faster in a straight with the V8tt, but the M3 better in the twisty bits.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by RoboM

From all reviews so far there is virtually no way 2015 C63 AMG could beat the new M3.

M3 could only be beaten by its successor.

Around 2012, when the LCI C63 debuted, it started to beat up on the E9X M3 in some of the comparison tests (as mentioned by the poster below) as the former (i.e., the C63) got some major tweaks - new suspension, new transmission, etc. The E9X M3 received only cosmetic changes.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Really? Interesting way of looking into the future.

The E92 M3 did lose a couple comparos to the LCI W204 C63. It might be the same old conundrum. C63 faster in a straight with the V8tt, but the M3 better in the twisty bits.

And the E9X is 4 seconds slower than the LCI W204 at the 'ring.

The W205 is going to have more power and more torque. And, like the F80/F82, the W205 will be losing weight for the first time. Supposedly, at least 220 lbs are going to be shed. Carbon ceramic brakes will be offered for the first time. Also, for the first time, there will be a C63S model available (500+ horsepower, 490-500 lb-ft).

They're both going to be stellar cars. I don't think one will be "better" than another. The C63 will likely be faster in a straight line and have a more aggressive sound (thanks to the V8), but the M3 will once again be a bit lighter than its rival (my current W204 weighs 3,860 lbs) and it will have the better transmission options (DCT and 6MT).

[ciomas]

thought it was safe to assume people read signatures ;] no, its just catless, but thats enough on a n55

Im pretty sure I'll be one of the first customers for the m4 titanium when it comes out..

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

Why not? Based on the clips we've heard so far, i'm pretty confident an e92 335is (M Performance Exhaust) sounds MUCH better than the stock f80 exhaust. Besides, we don't know what "335i" exhaust he is comparing it to. Maybe he has an Akrapovic system on his 335i, for all we know.

[ron_jeremy]

Well, the new M line up, is giving it's users a more all round vehicle, a better day to day car, you've got more torch, more all round ability, and less hassle.
But the entusiast, the high reving, the uniqe engines, the sound and the special feeling, it might be less so.
Having said that, the M3 looks more special than ever, more aggresive and sporty.
I guess with time shifting, the target of how an M car really is, changes as well, because these days, it's not enthusiast buying them, it's alot more people.
But perhaps the M should be more hardcore, and the M performance models should be closer to the M, as a more subtle model, for those who doesn't bring their car to the track?

[ciomas]

Originally Posted by dtea604

This car is definetly going to be a gem and for the guys saying a 335i sounds or is better then the new m3/m4 how are you not certain if bmw was usjng the n54/n55 as unlabel prototypes in the mass to evaluate the problems that come with turbocharging an engine ? From what I can see seems like they let the civilan population do the testing and they just adjusted and spruced up the engine.

judging on the way bmw has been acting since the introduction of the f30 platform, they clearly follow how heavily we rebuild and stress our cars - hence the m performance line

[claudiumxg]

British reviews are extremely biased lately because they have to push their products forward : like the new jag f type..which from the distance looks apealing but onece you touch it seems to be built in a barn ready to fall apart...now back to buisness: when youre 16-20 years old you may want the thrill of a NA engine sound and that last rpm urge when NA engine enters the intake resonance area for which it was tuned and sudenly increases Volumetric efficiency...but that is just show with no go...this is what all NA cars and M3 including e9x feelt to me..up to 4000 was nada for a 2000kg car with 2 passengers and a full tank..any 3liter diesel would spank me on autobahn up tu the 250km/h speed governor..it only did something betwen 6000 and 8000...wtf?!?!..they fianally adresed the wishes ow european owners..more power down low(aka torque down in rpm band). People make great confusion betwen intake tract pitch and tone change and rpm rate of change when pressing the throttle.. the sound change is mutted with a turbo as explained in the developemend video..m3 has never had a special sound as a 430 460 458 gt3. C63....so for me is not important(it sounds good enough..and can be tailored with a exhaust if needed) i ll take the go instead of sound.to much drift in this video..you can get a gt86 if you want to drift all day long..i want traction, and this is where m3 always lacked..50/50 mass distribuition is not enough for traction..is good for changing direction and balance..so i hope this is something they solved.the last comment is dumb in the video...what do you expect? It is turbo it pulls over a 6000rpm range not just last 1000rpm that is why it doesent feel so at at the topend.who needs a peaky engine?!? To do what with it? Scare kids?..you need poweband to smak the other supercars..and on a trackday...Well done BMW...
ps.is this the "throttle responce" you'll all miss?

[Fuman]

Sound for a straight 6 turbo doesn't really differ that much - exhaust setup, tune, others and what else.

I've always been a fan of straight 6 plus turbos, as I do think its one of the best setups. I don't care much about V8s. But absolutely love the V10 note.

[Fuman]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

British reviews are extremely biased lately because they have to push their products forward : like the new jag f type..which from the distance looks apealing but onece you touch it seems to be built in a barn ready to fall apart...now back to buisness: when youre 16 20 years old you may want the thrill of a NA engine sound and that last rpm urge when NA engine enters the intake resonance area fir which it was tuned an sudennly increases Volumetric efficiency...but that is just show with no go...this is what all NA cars and M3 including e9x feelt to me..up to 4000 was nada for a 2000kg car with 2 passengers and a full tank..any 3liter diesel would spank me on autobahn up tu the 250km/h speed governor..it only did something betwen 6000 and 8000...wtf?!?!..they fianally adresed the wishes ow european owners..more power down low(aka torke down in rpm band). People make great confusion betwen intake trakt pitck and tone change and rpm rate of change whenn presing the throttle.. the sond change is mutted whit a turbo as explained in the developemend video..m3 has never nad a special sound as a 430 460 450.gt3. C63....so for me is not important(it sounds good enoug..and can be tailored wiht a exhaust if needed) i ll take the go instead of sound.to much drift in this video..you can get a gt86 if you want to drift all day long..i want traction, abd this is where m3 alway lacked..50/50 mass distribuition is not enough for traction..is good for changing direction and balance..so i hope this is something they solved.the last comment is dumb in the video...what do you expect? It is turbo it pulls over 6000rpm range not just last 1000rpm tget is why it doesent feell so at athe topend.who needs a peaky engine?!? To do what with it? Scare kids?..you need poweband to smak the other supercars..Well done BMW...
ps.is this the "throttle responce" you'll all miss?

+1

[bemami]

Car is an all around achievement. Not concerned about the exhaust note as a previous member said that can be improved upon. The fundamentals are there and they are Strong. Acceleration, handeling, aesthetics, cabin, etc..I suspect this car will go down as a legend and has potential to get to e46 M status (one of the greatest cars ever built). All that and I've never even turned on the engine...them M boys and girls know what they are doing.

[ake]

Originally Posted by claudiumxg

British reviews are extremely biased lately because they have to push their products forward : like the new jag f type..which from the distance looks apealing but onece you touch it seems to be built in a barn ready to fall apart...now back to buisness: when youre 16-20 years old you may want the thrill of a NA engine sound and that last rpm urge when NA engine enters the intake resonance area fir which it was tuned an sudennly increases Volumetric efficiency...but that is just show with no go...this is what all NA cars and M3 including e9x feelt to me..up to 4000 was nada for a 2000kg car with 2 passengers and a full tank..any 3liter diesel would spank me on autobahn up tu the 250km/h speed governor..it only did something betwen 6000 and 8000...wtf?!?!..they fianally adresed the wishes ow european owners..more power down low(aka torque down in rpm band). People make great confusion betwen intake tract pitch and tone change and rpm rate of change when pressing the throttle.. the sound change is mutted with a turbo as explained in the developemend video..m3 has never had a special sound as a 430 460 458 gt3. C63....so for me is not important(it sounds good enough..and can be tailored with a exhaust if needed) i ll take the go instead of sound.to much drift in this video..you can get a gt86 if you want to drift all day long..i want traction, and this is where m3 always lacked..50/50 mass distribuition is not enough for traction..is good for changing direction and balance..so i hope this is something they solved.the last comment is dumb in the video...what do you expect? It is turbo it pulls over a 6000rpm range not just last 1000rpm that is why it doesent feel so at at the topend.who needs a peaky engine?!? To do what with it? Scare kids?..you need poweband to smak the other supercars..and on a trackday...Well done BMW...

I agree with you - it is going to be the overall better and that clearly is more than acceptable for me!

OT: It is a pain to read a continuous text like that with only dots inbetween. I hope for the next post you could use some line breaks inbetween

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ake

I agree with you - it is going to be the overall better and that clearly is more than acceptable for me!

OT: It is a pain to read a continuous text like that with only dots inbetween. I hope for the next post you could use some line breaks inbetween

Great, it's not just I who is hopeless. Still, it's really hard to read long paragraphs with no commas. Oh well, this is the price you pay for not being able to communicate in your own language. You could probably easily find a forum auf Deutsch, but there is probably 3 M cars in the whole of my home country, and the language is not spoken anywhere else, so

[spool twice]

probably my next car...engine sound and all. im sure with a proper X-pipe (versus the oem H-pipe) will balance the sound to make it more smooth and howlier (is that even a word? lol). im more interested in whats in store for inexpensive piggyback systems (JB4), I miss the ease of tunability when I had my N54 thats lacking with my S65.

Now BMW is giving me both, an M car, with an M widebody, with an M suspension feel, with hopefully the tunability of a turbo motor. its a win win in my book.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by bemami

Car is an all around achievement. Not concerned about the exhaust note as a previous member said that can be improved upon. The fundamentals are there and they are Strong. Acceleration, handeling, aesthetics, cabin, etc..I suspect this car will go down as a legend and has potential to get to e46 M status (one of the greatest cars ever built). All that and I've never even turned on the engine...them M boys and girls know what they are doing.

I expect you're right

[YungDro]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

Pretty much anyone who drives a 335i M Sport can spring to an M3.My 335i xDrive M Sport stickered at $62k. M3 money. But if believing otherwise makes you feel better, then by all means.


Infact, I sold my e92 M3 because I prefer to have an xDrive car. An xDrive e90/92 would have been a no brainer for me. As things stand now, I might still have hard time justifying an f80 M3, even if it were xDrive. It's a glorified 335i.Especially since BMW has since reprogrammed the f30 steering to be awesome. I'm sure the M3 will prove to be the better car overall, but the delta between the series cars and M cars seems to be ever shrinking, with the n55 i6 engine being utilized in both.


It just doesn't move me. I don't desire it yet, or "want" it. Hopefully a test drive will change my mind. And if you haven't been in a 335i M Sport, you truly have a weak point of reference. But marketing can be very powerful to convince you otherwise.

All nice cars but I have driven a 335i and a 435i i love them but theres no way it will be the same as an M3 / M4. its the M division and what would happen if you did an ECU tune on the M3 M4 it will be even faster........ just test drive it im sure it wont dissapoint you as many have said

[gulshan]

I have a e92 N54 335i with the oem perf exhaust. New m3 sounds similar but not necessarily better. The prev gen e9x s65 M3 with the perf exhaust sounds better than any 335/435/new m3/m4 with or without perf exhaust.. just my 2 cents

[AYEDEE]

Greatest review out

[Koldun]

My initially very strong dislike of this car's appearance is mellowing out. I still hate the color palette, but the four-door sibling doesn't look that bad. I'd be looking VERY HARD at aftermarker diffuser and hood options, but I could see myself in that. I hope LCI brings something interesting to the table.

The turbo's lack of "rip", or whatever ephemeral metaphysical term you want to use for engine feel, plus long-term reliability concerns with the turbo and all the electric parts make this car something I would love to lease, but wouldn't buy.

Goal is to keep the E92, supercharge it (maybe?), and do a ED lease for the F80 along LCI time.

[Thurman Murch]

I think the cla45 amg w perf pack sounds pretty good for a turbo

Apply that to the new c63 and it should sound good for a turbo

Looks are subjective and I'm not a season ticket fan of the look of the new Mercedes design language

The only way the current c63 was fast was in sport mode... And so she was brutal fast but I felt it was more of a bahnstormer and handled long slight curves better... I did not like the transmission compared to dct and the interior felt cheap and plasticky and rattled. Well the hood would open all the way vertical and the exhaust was very nice but couldn't hear if much from the interior.. It seems like the new one will have more luxury and more sport with the S?

I like the looks and the room of the f8x but having driven the F30 335i perf ed for 6.500 clicks it was still missing something from the previous generation. It's that soul connection that I'm applying to the new one. Yes I'm being negative but I haven't driven it yet so I'm just being cautious and approaching with eyes wide open. I'm sure it is still a blast and new michelins aren't very sticky to control power.

[farishat]

what's wrong with you people, why can you drive in a straight line!! seems stupid to burn tires at every turn.

[ake]

Originally Posted by farishat

what's wrong with you people, why can you drive in a straight line!! seems stupid to burn tires at every turn.

but it is soooo much fun


BTT: I really like that he praises the DCT. Maybe that's just what I wanted to hear. Sad that he did not drive a manual (and compare both of these). Really waiting on a comparison review of the transmissions... hopefully soon enough before I cannot adjust my order any more.

[georgere]

so, the reviewer mentions the sound of an M engine is lacking, which I agree is important criteria for an M car, but I am wondering what he will have to say when the world goes electric....

[Thurman Murch]

Hmmm from the post above will the F8x be able to beat a new Porsche gt2 in a straight line?

Just remember the throttle will be more linear and there will be audible feedback telling you where you are in the rev range. So roll down the windows and downshift as much as possible. I wonder what the S55 sounds like from the vert.

I'll prob just wait until someone trades or returns their F80 from lease after LCI... There are so many cars coming on the horizon.