04-28-2012, 04:45 AM | #23 |
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04-28-2012, 05:22 AM | #24 |
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if you're just looking for HP numbers, get an american muscle car.
The muscle cars have bigger engines (usually V8), burn more petrol, and come with impressive HP numbers. big, bigger, biggest... that's american philosophy. An M3 is more about refinement, balance, involvement... for connoisseurs. |
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04-28-2012, 07:34 AM | #25 | |
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04-28-2012, 08:00 AM | #26 |
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IMHO
1) The M3 has always been improved with every new generation. 2) From a handling point the comparison cars you listed are no where near the qualety and handling capabileties of the M3. 3) HP is not always the answer, unless your only objective is the track. In the end I would wait until the new M3/M4 is out as you know there are several factors that decide who crosses the finish line first. The BMW Engineering Team is one of the best in the world others follow them so all I can say is wait and see.
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04-28-2012, 08:13 AM | #27 |
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I don't have a fixed hp requirement for the next M3. The M3 isn't about hp bragging rights. If your goal is to be able to say you have more hp than the next guy, then get one of those American cars.
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04-28-2012, 08:31 AM | #28 | |
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04-28-2012, 08:42 AM | #29 | |
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I don't necessarily need too much of a "faster" M3. The reason I like the M3 over the Vette or GT500 also has to do with the interior. I would like a little more low-end torque, but that's not make-or-break for me. When I'm in the market between a C63 and an M3, I would just like the carsto at least be enjoyable and nice to be in, not just to drive. |
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04-28-2012, 08:46 AM | #30 | |
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I would be very happy if the new lighter F80M3 gets only 420 to 440hp if they keey the great S65 in the car. |
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04-28-2012, 09:19 AM | #31 |
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I've also thought about this a lot. There is no way the new m3 will have more that 460hp from the factory. I imagine its 1/4 times to be dead even with the e60m5. The new m3 can't be faster than the new m5, never has and never will. However, the fact that it will be turbo will make it a tuners dream and in modified form it will be a monster. In stock form I don't see it being much faster than the e90/92, nothing like the jump from the e46 to the e9x.
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04-28-2012, 11:20 AM | #32 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't BMW understate the actual horsepower on their M cars? I thought I read a test somewhere that showed actual WHP to be even higher than the stated BHP from BMW. If that's the case, then doesn't it make any numbers discussion kind of irrelevant?
Like I said, I might be wrong here, but window stickers aren't always that accurate. |
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04-28-2012, 11:41 AM | #33 | |
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That is the case with the N54/N55 engines. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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04-28-2012, 11:46 AM | #34 | |
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04-28-2012, 11:55 AM | #35 |
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This is correct ^^^ the engines are basically maxed out. Different story with our V8 there is plenty of room to increase performance here, however, BMW has to follow the pack and come out with a more efficient engine in order to keep up with the Josses so to speak (the competishion like Porsche, Audi etc etc). Too sad really ... then that is what some say is progress.
I look forward what the BMW ///M Team will come up with for the new Generation ///M3's it always has been great in the past and it will continue to be so. As one fellow told me a few weeks ago in the gas station while filling my toy with fuel ... "Nice car" he said "It is the car that sets the bench mark for all the others" anyway that is what he said and he drove a Jaguar
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04-28-2012, 12:16 PM | #36 |
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Your logic is on with the e39 and e60, but no way @ 500; now you'd be getting into M5/M6 territory. There wasn't that much of an increase with the f10 in HP compared to e60, as there was from the e39 ---> e60. More realistic is 450-475
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04-28-2012, 12:34 PM | #37 |
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The people that recognize that the M3 shouldn't be cross-shopped against a high hp american car have it right.
Also bear in mind that forced induction cars are easy to add significant amounts of power to if that's your thing. 335's can be tuned to 400hp fairly easily, I'd imagine the new M3 can be tuned to 500+ safely because BMW is not going to release the car on the limits of safety boost-wise. 600hp is still totally usable BTW, maybe not so much on small city streets, but definitely either a highway or track environment. I've driven cars with that much or more on roads and on track and you just have to realize the throttle is not an on/off switch... My 2 cents. |
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04-28-2012, 03:47 PM | #38 | |
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04-28-2012, 05:53 PM | #39 |
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The M3 has always been about balance and in my opinion having owned all generations of M3 the E92 is close to being on the limit for public roads. I always felt this car would be dangerous with more hp. Too me it's the chassis engineering that makes or breaks the relationship between car and powerplant. Interestingly BMW always hits it spot on every 2nd generation.
My E30 obviously was amazing but could have handle slightly more power although this probably would have ruined the car (the 3.5 conversions on some cars showed this). My E36 (euro-spec 321hp) was always a little ragged as if more time was spent on the fabulous engine than the chassis and the car never quite felt 'together'. My E46 was perfectly balanced in terms of chassis/power output. My E92 was all about the amazing engine, chassis was great but never had the same balance feeling that the E46 had in abundance. It felt big and heavy when pushed round a twisty Scottish road. My E82 1M is more like it but it takes a while to get used to the sudden shove of torque that you get when the turbos come on boost, the chassis is so forgiving though and its much closer to the feel of the E30 & E46 These are of course my experience of these cars on UK public roads and tracks. You may have your own experiences. So simply the M3 is in danger of becoming the junior M6 GT type of car with too much power that will move it out of the class it created in the first place. The M3 was never meant to be a big HP car - it never was - there have always been more powerful rivals - the M3 was always all about FEEL and BALANCE. Sadly having seen the new F30 - which is HUGE - I think the purists will have to turn to the next gen M2 for this type of experience as the M3 will move up to a different slot in the market. Sad times.... |
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04-29-2012, 12:36 AM | #40 |
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Well E92 M3 was 414hp vs E60 M5 507hp. That is appx. 91hp difference between the two. I think the new M3 should then at minimum be a 467hp car at least to maintain the gap.
So in conclusion I would be happy with superb a driving dynamics and great steering feel in a 450hp new M3. However, I think I might be a little tiny bit more happy in an M3 that offers everything above but in a 470hp package
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04-29-2012, 06:31 AM | #41 | |
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I think though these other cars are getting much better, you don't buy a M3 or Mustang for the same reasons. Also, I think even with "only" 450bhp we must remember the next M3 will be lighter and have much more torque. The bottom line is no M3 has disappointed and I dont think the next one will let people down.
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04-29-2012, 10:59 AM | #42 |
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If its lighter i am game. But if not i really don't see it out doing any real sport cars. The Mustang GT even hangs with the current M3 in a striaght line and turns.
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04-29-2012, 12:35 PM | #43 | |
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