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      01-16-2014, 04:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92pvaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
I've gone too hot into a corner in my ~3900 pound e39 m5 on slick road with DSC off.

It was a mistake. I am very lucky to have not torn up the car - I basically did a 180 and then continued spinning backwards as I slid into thick muddy soil which effectively slowed me down with no damage.
+1 on the m5 is a beast, at the perf driving school in South Carolina I almost went off the track in a bad area with the M5 in MDM mode. Instructor stopped the whole session and brought us in for a talk. Embarrassing for me but you definitely learn to be easy on the pedals! That being said e92 was much easier to handle , most likely due to weight
I did better than you, I did spin out with the M5 right after the corkscrew in our 20 minute full track time at the performance school...have it recorded on my . Those turbo cars need to be driven differently, that's for sure.
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      01-16-2014, 04:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
So far this is none more than hearsay by an enthusiastic guy claiming bragging rights for driving this car before anyone else (also questionable and non-verifiable). Speculation at its best.
Pretty close, I think. When someone wants you to agree with them, they'll say what they think you want to hear. It's a natural human tendency. If you're talking to an automotive enthusiast who prides themselves on driving ability, it makes sense to play up the demanding nature of the car.

It's exciting to hear, IMO. If we can infer anything concrete about the statement, I think it would be that the new M3/M4 would have more oversteer tendencies when compared to the outgoing E9x models. When reviewers and test drivers comment on how much skill is required to drive a car, they're usually referring to two things: 1) how willing the car is to oversteer, and 2) how quickly the oversteer comes on.

Some cars require you to go to great lengths to get oversteer. Some cars, when you do begin to oversteer, they "snap" on you, which results in a spin. We'll have to wait for actual driven reviews to find out for sure, but I hope this car is balanced a little more toward oversteer, as that usually means more driver fun and engagement.
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Last edited by bradleyland; 01-16-2014 at 05:40 PM..
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      01-16-2014, 04:14 PM   #47
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That was some great marketing by the BMW employee

I think the reality is that with electronic aids on, it will make everyone feel like a super star, and with the electronic aids off it will require some attention, like all RWD cars with a decent amount of power

This isn't a 3000lb, 600hp mid engine, RWD car with no electronic assistance... in a lot of ways, this is like a full bolt ons N54 car with a lot of suspension mods and LSD.. those aren't crazily challenging to drive...

it will be ok if everyone experiments with the electronic aids off in an area with some runofff first
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      01-16-2014, 04:40 PM   #48
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I would imagine this car is going to reward a good driver! Can't wait to get behind the wheel.
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      01-16-2014, 04:42 PM   #49
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I'm guessing this quote was missed by all:

“The M3’s turbos are actually smaller than the turbos in the N54HP—the 1 Series M Coupe engine.”


This is going to rain on the parades of many. I guess it comes down to whether its just the compressor sides or both sides. The turbos on the N54 could make a lot more power if the exhaust sides were larger with better turbine wheels.
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      01-16-2014, 04:48 PM   #50
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Lol at "hearsay" and "speculation". Its true with massive power that low that it will take even more refinement to drive. Whats so wrong with this comment??
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      01-16-2014, 04:50 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
This thread got my attention, particularly in light of what my insurance premiums have done over the past 6 years.

I did a little research and found this chart on the IIHS website (look at the best and worst tab):

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/insu...ss-information

The E92 M3 makes the list of the highest collision loss cars on the market - some of the others are no surprise. Maybe we already have our share of clueless owners. Another hundred pounds of torque should keep us on the list we don't want to be on. Including a driver school in the purchase price might not be a bad idea.
I looked at the list (Highest Overall Losses: Collision) and I understand all the cars in the list except:
"Mercedes-Benz S class hybrid 4d"
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      01-16-2014, 04:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
I'm guessing this quote was missed by all:

“The M3’s turbos are actually smaller than the turbos in the N54HP—the 1 Series M Coupe engine.”


This is going to rain on the parades of many. I guess it comes down to whether its just the compressor sides or both sides. The turbos on the N54 could make a lot more power if the exhaust sides were larger with better turbine wheels.

Makes sense. FBO N54s make 400+ to the wheels.

I have driven both an M3 and a FBO 335 on the track and I can honestly say the M3 is easier. The power delivery is A LOT more predictable. I know my 335 like the back of my hand but still I am surprised when it does and doesn't make boost. Like sometimes I will slightly let off the gas in one spot on one lap and not the next. This completely changes when boost comes in because the turbos stop spinning. It's pretty interesting and I am looking forward to seeing how the new Ms feel on the track.

-Mike
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      01-16-2014, 05:03 PM   #53
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PR bullshit. The car isn't much faster than the E92 (10sec/lap faster on the Nordschleife), and I'm sure that's with the ridiculous $9k CCB pack (which is stupid). The engine has a lot more torque, which would probably break traction a bit more easily. That's all that probably means. But that really is stupid, because I'm sure the nanny systems step in the instant that happens.
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      01-16-2014, 05:06 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Lol at "hearsay" and "speculation". Its true with massive power that low that it will take even more refinement to drive. Whats so wrong with this comment??
In this day in age, 425HP is not "massive." 600HP+ is massive.
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      01-16-2014, 05:22 PM   #55
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What it sounds like to me is that BMW might have dialed in some Porsche (997) 911 type tendencies which if you ask Porsche enthusiasts, makes the 911 more endearing, different and challenging. It's a stretch but who knows since they won't let anyone drive the damn thing. Before I have to put on a flame suit on, I'm NOT SAYING IT'S GONNA BE A 911 but the comment is interesting. Especially when you consider all the torque this thing is gonna have on tap. Of all the things that I find wrong with the rollout of these cars, THAT comment has me intrigued the most.
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      01-16-2014, 05:36 PM   #56
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If more than just show babbling I can see two very different reasons:

1: The throttle is touchy with an immediate very powerful response. ( Awesome )
2: Throttle lag making it hard to modulate. I.e due to no/delayed response you push the throttle deeper than required for the power you intend ( Not awesome ).
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      01-16-2014, 05:41 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
This is one random guy at BMW stating this but im not really surprised since the car does have way more torque. Wasnt this the same feedback from the E36 M3 to the E46 M3. According to Chris Harris, the Ferrari F40 is harder to drive than the F50 because of the turbo's sudden power delivery. Some may find this more fun lol. But yea inspiring confidence behind the wheel is something the E9X M3 is known for so thats interesting. We will just have to wait for more un-bias opinions.
I think you hit the nail on the head. More power = less forgiving, to a certain extend. I remember going from the e36 to the e46 M3. Never had an issue hanging the tail out on the e36M3, but lost it once early on with the e46 M3. I did tribute that a bit to the tires also. Always had Bridgestone Potenza's and Michelin's on the e36 and the e46 came with Continentals, which "let go" rather suddenly.
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      01-16-2014, 05:43 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian///M View Post
I am sure it will be safer than a 1M.
Lil torque devil it is!
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      01-16-2014, 05:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sparkle View Post
If they want to give me a free 2-day session @ BMW Performance Driving School before buying the car, that would be great too!
It would be really cool if BMW offered the free 2-day driving school to ///M3 owners like they did in '08/09. That was such a fun trip!
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      01-16-2014, 05:56 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It would be really cool if BMW offered the free 2-day driving school to ///M3 owners like they did in '08/09. That was such a fun trip!
Yeah I wish BMW did something similar to what AMG does. Whenever you purchase or lease a new AMG, you get one free trip to an AMG Driving Academy track session of your choosing. Laguna Seca and the Circuit of the Americas are just a few of the track choices available.
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      01-16-2014, 06:02 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sparkle View Post
they did?! Ahh buying a luxury car during a recession!
They sure did. Between that, and the 0.9%/1.9% interest rates, BMW really made the E9X easy to acquire.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Yeah I wish BMW did something similar to what AMG does. Whenever you purchase or lease a new AMG, you get one free trip to an AMG Driving Academy track session of your choosing. Laguna Seca and the Circuit of the Americas are just a few of the track choices available.
That would be awesome. BMW needs to get on it.
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      01-16-2014, 06:16 PM   #62
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In sports+ the instant rush of torque due to the turbines constantly spinning could lead to trouble. Disable dsc and DTc and u might find a few f8x at the bottom of cliffs
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      01-16-2014, 06:16 PM   #63
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I sort of suspected this to be the case and I definitely planned on taking some driving courses before buying one.
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      01-16-2014, 06:17 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
Recall that part of that number (one would suspect the greater part, given what it purports to calculate) relates to average loss per claim.

The cars on that "worst list" are all pricey, hence part of the reason for their placement there. My guess is there isnt a lot of racing in the S-class segment, but every dented bumper is going to cost the equivalent of 3 F-150's to replace

By contrast, the "best" cars are not terribly expensive and, it seems, are all 'working vehicles' (trucks) where drivers arent going to bother getting many cosmetic things fixed.

BUT, agreed, there are all sorts of jackasses driving their M3s (or Californias, or A8s, or whatever) like jackasses which means that, even if an M3 is cheaper to repair than a Ferrari or R8, there are enough accidents to drive the other part of the equation and keep the M3 on the list.

Cars today are ridiculously fast. The new M3 with all its torque will surely be a tail happy treat for most of us, but in the wrong hands will wind up wrapped around a tree.

I think all companies that sell performance cars today should include a complimentary driving school. From a safety standpoint, to help the customers gain some skill and understanding of what you don't want to do on the street, and from a marketing standpoint to develop deeper, longer lasting more profitable relationships with their customers. Hell, even make it a low cost option for CPO buyers.
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      01-16-2014, 06:17 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It would be really cool if BMW offered the free 2-day driving school to ///M3 owners like they did in '08/09. That was such a fun trip!
Yeah I wish BMW did something similar to what AMG does. Whenever you purchase or lease a new AMG, you get one free trip to an AMG Driving Academy track session of your choosing. Laguna Seca and the Circuit of the Americas are just a few of the track choices available.
They need to open a driving school on the west coast I know Porsche is doing so
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      01-16-2014, 06:18 PM   #66
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I think us n54 owners that have tracked our cars will have a smooth transition. Lack of LSD , soft bushings especially in the rear are what stand out to me at higher boost levels.

M cars, f80 have some nice tech, lighter, etc, etc. Might even be easier to handle at the limit for this crowd.
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