GetBMWParts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Wheels | Tires -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-08-2017, 12:01 PM   #23
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
"The PS4S features an aramid/nylon belt that's designed to help the tire maintain its shape under pressure. This stronger belt effectively gives the PS4S a wider contact patch, which is especially helpful in high-speed cornering. A new tread pattern also helps improve grip by distributing pressure more evenly across the contact patch."

To me this would mean as long as the tire is in spec on the rim it should be able to use its contact patch.
The PS4S will most probably be a much better tire than the PSS.

What I am saying is that we still need more date to figure which is the best size/spec to fit on our cars and and what size /spec offers over another.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 12:19 PM   #24
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
yeah, I saw that, but I was hoping for the 295/35 M01 merc one to be available, but looks like it's not.

I'm down to either:
  • MPSS 265/35 MO + 295/35 *spec
  • M P4S 265/35 + 285/35
Check out those MPSS 295/35* in classifieds just 300 miles from you on the other side of Florida
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 12:23 PM   #25
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The PS4S will most probably be a much better tire than the PSS.
Source?

That is not what the review from last week forum members were posting in the other threads on this topic. Said there was no real reason to rush out and buy. Pretty much similar to MPSS.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 01:04 PM   #26
dmk08
Gone Fishin’
dmk08's Avatar
United_States
7315
Rep
12,125
Posts

Drives: Walks
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
Source?

That is not what the review from last week forum members were posting in the other threads on this topic. Said there was no real reason to rush out and buy. Pretty much similar to MPSS.
According to my friend who went and tested them at Thermal in Cali on various high end cars they are a big step up from the MPSS. His family owns the best local tire chain here in the Atlanta area.
Appreciate 1
CanAutM321104.50
      02-08-2017, 01:31 PM   #27
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
According to my friend who went and tested them at Thermal in Cali on various high end cars they are a big step up from the MPSS. His family owns the best local tire chain here in the Atlanta area.
So an unknown friend of a poster who was at the cali event as the named source reviewer who said quite the opposite?

Got it.

Out of curiosity if the tire was so leaps and bounds better than the MPSS as the friend of a friend says, why didn't Michelin chose to release that data? :

Or is the Cult that strong?

Last edited by Kabrich; 02-08-2017 at 01:37 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 01:35 PM   #28
dmk08
Gone Fishin’
dmk08's Avatar
United_States
7315
Rep
12,125
Posts

Drives: Walks
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
So a friend of a poster.

Got it.
Yep a friend of a poster who owns a tire chain and tested them first hand. Butler Tire. Very well respected around Atlanta.

Where is the post you're speaking of that says they are not better?
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #29
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Yep a friend of a poster who owns a tire chain and tested them first hand. Butler Tire. Very well respected around Atlanta.

Where is the post you're speaking of that says they are not better?


Perhaps if there were not so many threads on the same exact subject (speculation with few facts....like this late comer) things would be easier to find, like the thread you posted in right before this link was posted.

http://www.thedrive.com/gear-up/7083...pilot-sport-4s

The Pilot Sport 4S is the replacement for the Pilot Super Sport, and if this is gonna be tl;dr, that is truly all you need to know about it. You can stop now, educated.

On the roads through Joshua Tree and around Palm Springs, I had about 30 minutes in a Ferrari California T and 30 minutes in a 2017 Audi R8. In both cases, at road speeds, the PS4S is indistinguishable from the PSS it replaces. The PS4S demonstrated excellent ride quality, albeit in two cars which I already know ride well. Road noise is minimal, and I honestly feel you would need very sensitive instrumentation to tell the difference from the PSS to the PS4S on your commuting roads.


BTW, if you read the list of swag that was given to everyone, no wonder the friend of a friend is hyping.

As Matt said

If you made it through those last paragraphs, you’re probably asking yourself, “How the hell is this dude, or anyone really, supposed to be objective about a potentially life-saving product when he’s apparently just in some sort of gifting suite marketed as a tire test?” #branding

I honestly don’t know, and that’s a shame. The product is better than that. The people who make the tires are better than that. So I’m going to do my very best to tell you what I think about these tires, and you can believe me, or not, but that’s the deal.



As for comparison

I wanted to try a set of Pilot Super Sports under the same conditions, but there were no Super Sports available to mount. In fact, aside from the “0.18 seconds per lap” comparison shown during the presentation, Michelin made very few public comparisons, and offered no opportunities for direct driving comparisons, to the Pilot Super Sport.

Strange.....except:

For those of us who want to know if the best sport tire on the market got better, the answer is yes, it did. When your Super Sports wear down, get a set of the PS4S, and you won’t be disappointed. They are the same price as the Super Sport, and they will be phased into production as the Super Sport is phased out, first in 19”, 20”, and 21” sizes this year, then 18” and 17” next year. The tires are good, you will like them, whether you’re a trackday nerd or a guy who just wants a good set of rubber on your performance car. But you do not need to prematurely toss your Super Sports to get them, because you probably won’t notice the difference unless you’re serious about the stopwatch, and then you probably just want Sport Cup 2’s.

And finally about your hyping friend....

Dinners, Champagne, gifting suites, Vice film crews, ride-alongs in Supercars with racing drivers, that’s sexy stuff that mindless “influencers” eat up and regurgitate #branding to their sheep. Watch what these people say about these tires, or any product really, with their #branded moon-boots on, and have a little chuckle to yourself.

Respect for Bulter Tires drops dramatically...BTW, I believe Matt called you sheep.

I'm having a chuckle with Matt.

Last edited by Kabrich; 02-08-2017 at 02:02 PM..
Appreciate 1
VeloF1318.00
      02-08-2017, 01:54 PM   #30
dmk08
Gone Fishin’
dmk08's Avatar
United_States
7315
Rep
12,125
Posts

Drives: Walks
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post


Perhaps if there were not so many threads on the same exact subject (speculation with few facts....like this late comer) things would be easier to find, like the thread you posted in right before this link was posted.

http://www.thedrive.com/gear-up/7083...pilot-sport-4s

The Pilot Sport 4S is the replacement for the Pilot Super Sport, and if this is gonna be tl;dr, that is truly all you need to know about it. You can stop now, educated.

On the roads through Joshua Tree and around Palm Springs, I had about 30 minutes in a Ferrari California T and 30 minutes in a 2017 Audi R8. In both cases, at road speeds, the PS4S is indistinguishable from the PSS it replaces. The PS4S demonstrated excellent ride quality, albeit in two cars which I already know ride well. Road noise is minimal, and I honestly feel you would need very sensitive instrumentation to tell the difference from the PSS to the PS4S on your commuting roads.


BTW, if you read the list of swag that was given to everyone, no wonder the friend of a friend is hyping.

As Matt said

If you made it through those last paragraphs, you’re probably asking yourself, “How the hell is this dude, or anyone really, supposed to be objective about a potentially life-saving product when he’s apparently just in some sort of gifting suite marketed as a tire test?” #branding

I honestly don’t know, and that’s a shame. The product is better than that. The people who make the tires are better than that. So I’m going to do my very best to tell you what I think about these tires, and you can believe me, or not, but that’s the deal.
Ahh so I should trust Matt Farah who always has questionable reviews over my friend. (not a friend of a friend which you said for some reason) Gotcha.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 02:08 PM   #31
dmk08
Gone Fishin’
dmk08's Avatar
United_States
7315
Rep
12,125
Posts

Drives: Walks
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post


Perhaps if there were not so many threads on the same exact subject (speculation with few facts....like this late comer) things would be easier to find, like the thread you posted in right before this link was posted.

http://www.thedrive.com/gear-up/7083...pilot-sport-4s

The Pilot Sport 4S is the replacement for the Pilot Super Sport, and if this is gonna be tl;dr, that is truly all you need to know about it. You can stop now, educated.

On the roads through Joshua Tree and around Palm Springs, I had about 30 minutes in a Ferrari California T and 30 minutes in a 2017 Audi R8. In both cases, at road speeds, the PS4S is indistinguishable from the PSS it replaces. The PS4S demonstrated excellent ride quality, albeit in two cars which I already know ride well. Road noise is minimal, and I honestly feel you would need very sensitive instrumentation to tell the difference from the PSS to the PS4S on your commuting roads.


BTW, if you read the list of swag that was given to everyone, no wonder the friend of a friend is hyping.

As Matt said

If you made it through those last paragraphs, you’re probably asking yourself, “How the hell is this dude, or anyone really, supposed to be objective about a potentially life-saving product when he’s apparently just in some sort of gifting suite marketed as a tire test?” #branding

I honestly don’t know, and that’s a shame. The product is better than that. The people who make the tires are better than that. So I’m going to do my very best to tell you what I think about these tires, and you can believe me, or not, but that’s the deal.



As for comparison

I wanted to try a set of Pilot Super Sports under the same conditions, but there were no Super Sports available to mount. In fact, aside from the “0.18 seconds per lap” comparison shown during the presentation, Michelin made very few public comparisons, and offered no opportunities for direct driving comparisons, to the Pilot Super Sport.

Strange.....except:

For those of us who want to know if the best sport tire on the market got better, the answer is yes, it did. When your Super Sports wear down, get a set of the PS4S, and you won’t be disappointed. They are the same price as the Super Sport, and they will be phased into production as the Super Sport is phased out, first in 19”, 20”, and 21” sizes this year, then 18” and 17” next year. The tires are good, you will like them, whether you’re a trackday nerd or a guy who just wants a good set of rubber on your performance car. But you do not need to prematurely toss your Super Sports to get them, because you probably won’t notice the difference unless you’re serious about the stopwatch, and then you probably just want Sport Cup 2’s.

And finally about your hyping friend....

Dinners, Champagne, gifting suites, Vice film crews, ride-alongs in Supercars with racing drivers, that’s sexy stuff that mindless “influencers” eat up and regurgitate #branding to their sheep. Watch what these people say about these tires, or any product really, with their #branded moon-boots on, and have a little chuckle to yourself.

Respect for Bulter Tires drops dramatically...BTW, I believe Matt called you sheep.

I'm having a chuckle with Matt.
Luckily I'm not selling my tires prematurely for them I just you know need a new set of tires because I got new wheels that are a different size.

I'm having a chuckle that you rely so deeply in Matt Farah.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 03:58 PM   #32
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Luckily I'm not selling my tires prematurely for them I just you know need a new set of tires because I got new wheels that are a different size.

I'm having a chuckle that you rely so deeply in Matt Farah.
Yes, the sheep will now attack Matt Farrah (the one who could not be bought off).

Predictable.

BTW, considering your opinion of Matt, you have to then disregard all the Good things he said about the MPSS/Michelin.

Cannot have it both ways!

Last edited by Kabrich; 02-08-2017 at 07:18 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2017, 09:12 PM   #33
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
United_States
1125
Rep
2,564
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

This site is planning an upcoming review comparing the Conti 6, 4S, and MPSS on an M3 so ideal comparison for us.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...irst-Drive.htm
Appreciate 1
CanAutM321104.50
      02-08-2017, 09:23 PM   #34
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
This site is planning an upcoming review comparing the Conti 6, 4S, and MPSS on an M3 so ideal comparison for us.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article...irst-Drive.htm
Will be interesting after all the swag they got in Califonia.

Wonder if Continental will beat in all the test data again, but they will still chose the tyre that loses all the tests?

Swag, Michelin Chefs, Ritz Carltons, luxury cars and free trips are good!

Nothing like announcing the winner before the test, lol.
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2017, 12:16 AM   #35
longkid
Private
19
Rep
65
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 F82
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabrich View Post
295/35/19 was never listed as a launch size, fwiw.
yeah, I saw that, but I was hoping for the 295/35 M01 merc one to be available, but looks like it's not.

I'm down to either:
  • MPSS 265/35 MO + 295/35 *spec
  • M P4S 265/35 + 285/35
I'm debating between these two sizes, too. If it is too hard to tell the difference when driving brtween pss and 4s, i would probably go with 295 pss.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2017, 08:50 AM   #36
ssabripo
HALA MADRID!
ssabripo's Avatar
United_States
937
Rep
2,877
Posts

Drives: camels & donkeys
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plantation, Fl

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by longkid View Post
I'm debating between these two sizes, too. If it is too hard to tell the difference when driving brtween pss and 4s, i would probably go with 295 pss.
P4S price:
265/35 @ $319.70/ea + 285/35 @ $340.38/ea = $1320.16



PSS price:
265/35 @ $273.35/ea + 295/35 @ $347.70/ea = $1242.10

Dunno, the PSS is cheaper and has more thread contact in the rear.... I'm not sure if the P4S will be that much better to command higher price and less contact patch in rear
__________________

F87 M2 Competition, Sunset Orange, Exc, DCT.
**SOLD** F80 M3 Mineral Grey/Sakir Orange, Exc, DCT... ED 6/2015
**SOLD**E90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2017, 10:33 AM   #37
EALm4
Colonel
EALm4's Avatar
United_States
3347
Rep
2,009
Posts

Drives: SO 16' M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Yep a friend of a poster who owns a tire chain and tested them first hand. Butler Tire. Very well respected around Atlanta.

Where is the post you're speaking of that says they are not better?
Butler Tire is LEGIT

When I lived in the ATL I always went to them for recommendations and tires
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2017, 11:21 AM   #38
longkid
Private
19
Rep
65
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 F82
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by longkid View Post
I'm debating between these two sizes, too. If it is too hard to tell the difference when driving brtween pss and 4s, i would probably go with 295 pss.
P4S price:
265/35 @ $319.70/ea + 285/35 @ $340.38/ea = $1320.16



PSS price:
265/35 @ $273.35/ea + 295/35 @ $347.70/ea = $1242.10

Dunno, the PSS is cheaper and has more thread contact in the rear.... I'm not sure if the P4S will be that much better to command higher price and less contact patch in rear
I dont think the 285 4s can dominate the 295 pss especially if you done some power mods on your f8x. Anyway i will wait until some professional test results are out before I make the decision.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2017, 02:53 PM   #39
dmk08
Gone Fishin’
dmk08's Avatar
United_States
7315
Rep
12,125
Posts

Drives: Walks
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by longkid View Post
I dont think the 285 4s can dominate the 295 pss especially if you done some power mods on your f8x. Anyway i will wait until some professional test results are out before I make the decision.
I think an upgrade in compound and design goes further than 10mm.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2017, 03:39 PM   #40
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I think an upgrade in compound and design goes further than 10mm.
There is no direct correlation between tread width and section width. So we cannot yet conclude how the different size PS4S will compare to each other. But I fundamentally agree that the overall technological improvements offered by the PS4S will likely overcome any tread width advantage from different size PSS.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2017, 08:31 AM   #41
ssabripo
HALA MADRID!
ssabripo's Avatar
United_States
937
Rep
2,877
Posts

Drives: camels & donkeys
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plantation, Fl

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
There is no direct correlation between tread width and section width. So we cannot yet conclude how the different size PS4S will compare to each other. But I fundamentally agree that the overall technological improvements offered by the PS4S will likely overcome any tread width advantage from different size PSS.
I may just order the P4S and try it... I doubt the 285 will be "that" much smaller than the 295*, so hope the new compound will make up for the difference in performance
__________________

F87 M2 Competition, Sunset Orange, Exc, DCT.
**SOLD** F80 M3 Mineral Grey/Sakir Orange, Exc, DCT... ED 6/2015
**SOLD**E90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2017, 09:15 AM   #42
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I doubt the 285 will be "that" much smaller than the 295*
The tread of the generic 285/35R19 PSS is whopping 1.1" narrower than the tread of the 295/35R19(*) (10" vs 11.1"). The fact that the later is so wide and deigned around a 10" wide wheel is what made it so appealing for the M3/4 .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
, so hope the new compound will make up for the difference in [tread width]
From what I read, I certainly think it will
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I may just order the P4S and try it...
Looking forward to read your feedback, the more real world data the better
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2017, 10:21 AM   #43
Kabrich
Banned
United_States
354
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: '13 AH3 (335IH) 3F93 MSport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The tread of the generic 285/35R19 PSS is whopping 1.1" narrower than the tread of the 295/35R19(*) (10" vs 11.1"). The fact that the later is so wide and deigned around a 10" wide wheel is what made it so appealing for the M3/4 .
Exactly. Just another one of the differences in the Generic and Star Versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
I may just order the P4S and try it... I doubt the 285 will be "that" much smaller than the 295*, so hope the new compound will make up for the difference in performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
From what I read, I certainly think it
What you read? Why didn't Michelin release wet and dry grip data (which are areas where the MPSS lost to SC6 in Independent tests) with their other data points?

Not saying it won't, but the absence of that data is suspicious.

Last edited by Kabrich; 02-13-2017 at 10:26 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2017, 02:40 PM   #44
ssabripo
HALA MADRID!
ssabripo's Avatar
United_States
937
Rep
2,877
Posts

Drives: camels & donkeys
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plantation, Fl

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The tread of the generic 285/35R19 PSS is whopping 1.1" narrower than the tread of the 295/35R19(*) (10" vs 11.1"). The fact that the later is so wide and deigned around a 10" wide wheel is what made it so appealing for the M3/4 .
wait what? I didn't think there was a 285/35 R19 PSS

I looked at tirerack and others, and no sign of a 285/35.... you sure you didn't mean the 275/35 or 275/40?

If truly a 285/35, any links to the specs? if verified, then that makes my decision easy: stick with the star spec BMW 295/35R19
__________________

F87 M2 Competition, Sunset Orange, Exc, DCT.
**SOLD** F80 M3 Mineral Grey/Sakir Orange, Exc, DCT... ED 6/2015
**SOLD**E90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST