F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[ASAP]

I really do no believe there is anything to be concerned about. Even if you assume;

1) 100 LB weight saving
2) A quicker dct with better gearing
3) 100 TQ and 10 HP advantage

This car will easily take out an E90/E92 around the track. Not only that, but if someone wishes to have or prefers a faster straightline car; it's merely a tune away. The extra torque will also be a welcome addition for daily drivers. These are all things unavailable in the previous gen. I for one am excited.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I really do no believe there is anything to be concerned about. Even if you assume;

1) 100 LB weight saving
2) A quicker dct with better gearing
3) 100 TQ and 10 HP advantage

This car will easily take out an E90/E92 around the track. Not only that, but if someone wishes to have or prefers a faster straightline car; it's merely a tune away. The extra torque will also be a welcome addition for daily drivers. These are all things unavailable in the previous gen. I for one am excited.

It is going to be a great car, no question. It is going to kill in the magazine tests and reviews.

I guess some of the hate just comes from BMW using questionable advertising tactics. They should just let the car performance speak for itself. Doesn't really matter what its exact weight is, no need for BMW to make false claims.

[Kadema]

What I'm chewing over is that the given DIN weight numbers aren't penned by BMW marketing, but, according to german law, controlled by independent institutions like TÜV (technical surveillance). It isn't like BMW could make up some numbers and see if it gets through with it. If they claim 3300 lbs DIN weight they must have at some point put a production model on a independently controlled scale and that scale must have shown that number.

That's the reason why in the past, if you took the effort to clear up every detail about weight standards, weight of optional equipment etc, there generally weren't such excessive differences to scaled vehicle weight. I'm sure that the impression, there's always a big difference between BMW 'marketing' claims and real world weight numbers, derives from US curb weight / DIN weight confusion.

So, something must be quite wrong. I wonder how all of this evolves from this point and what further scale weight numbers will be. If it turns out that a base M3/4 is really 200~250lbs heavier than claimed, then we're not talking about lying and raising unrealistic expectations, but of fraud (what's the correct legal term?).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Kadema

What I'm chewing over is that the given DIN weight numbers aren't penned by BMW marketing, but, according to german law, controlled by independent institutions like TÜV (technical surveillance). It isn't like BMW could make up some numbers and see if it gets through with it. If they claim 3300 lbs DIN weight they must have at some point put a production model on a independently controlled scale and that scale must have shown that number.

That's the reason why in the past, if you took the effort to clear up every detail about weight standards, weight of optional equipment etc, there generally weren't such excessive differences to scaled vehicle weight. I'm sure that the impression, there's always a big difference between BMW 'marketing' claims and real world weight numbers, derives from US curb weight / DIN weight confusion.

So, something must be quite wrong. I wonder how all of this evolves from this point and what further scale weight numbers will be. If it turns out that a base M3/4 is really 200~250lbs heavier than claimed, then we're not talking about lying and raising unrealistic expectations, but of fraud (what's the correct legal term?).

Exactly.

[Robin_NL]

1615kgs. That's 108kgs more than my so called overweight, satnavved , electric seated and loaded 1M fatty ROFLOL.
About 50kgs less than E90 M3 6MT(I had one)

BMW AG and promises anno domini 2014.

Better keep my little elephant. For sure.



Cheers
Robin

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

If they focused on weight savings, where did all the new weight come from COMPARED to the F30 335i? Chassis strengthening for rigidity and to handle the torque? Some weight of course is also added via the new cooling systems, the 2nd turbo, etc.

Essentially, I think it's the beefier, more robust chassis components and higher performing power train of the M3 offsetting the lightweight countermeasures, yes. In the past the M3 was always the heaviest of the lot, outweighing the highest-end 3 Series by a good 100 lbs. or so. So this is marked improvement from that perspective at least.

Not that I am siding against your basic point, mind you. Intuitively, it feels like you could take the premium the M3 commands and engineer something not just more powerful and better handling than a 335i, but lighter too. I think that part of this feeling comes from what we know about race cars - much, much faster than a street car and also much, much lighter. I am not saying that we believe an M3 is a factory race car, or that a race car could be built for an M3 price, or even that a race car would make for something remotely streetable to begin with. I'm just saying that we tend to think of performance cars as lightweight, pared-down versions of the ordinary car. Unfortunately, while I'm sure BMW could deliver something more along those lines, the market for it isn't nearly as big as the car that puts luxury first, performance second.

[M4TW]

Before filing that class action against BMW for its LIES and FALSE ADVERTISING please be mindful that this is a pre-production model being weighed.

Also, (as important as the US market is) BMW is still an European manufacturer and is entitled to have its car weighed and measured using the same weigh-in rules under which it made its claim. I'm not claiming that that is where the difference lies, I'm saying we need a weigh-in using Euro standards and with an actual production car before screaming bloody murder.

I'm also all for saving weight. On the other hand, I'm not interested in buying a fragile death trap, with razor thin windows, straps for door handles and no radio. The car is light for its size, features, safety, and usability along with its ///M prowess.

If I wanted a smaller model, I'd be holding out for a 1 or 2 M or, more likely, just getting a Cayman S.

[jaay11]

I have mixed feelings about this thread : Not sure we'll get the answer we're looking for regarding the 200+ lbs difference. Will just wait and see. I hope the 0-60 numbers don't change.

[stressdoc]

I have had my hopes up for a truly revolutionary lightweight car from BMW -- the Z2M, at around 1000 kilos. Might be a ways off, but collaboration w/ Toyota may be helpful. I wonder if the 3cyl turbo would work in this?

[Kuwen]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Bolded portion is subjective, for myself and many others the new one is the perfect size

Agree on the new model being the perfect size.

[Sedan_Clan]

The silliness here is profound.

[solstice]

Looking at this again and assuming the scale is correct a fully loaded E90 M3 is 40 lbs heavier than a presumably fully loaded F80 when adding 89 lbs for DCT and 45 lbs for sunroof.

Maybe the difference between a euro stripper F80 and fully loaded US car is 211 lbs. ( 3351 vs. 3562 ). And maybe a loaded F80 has 136 lbs new equipment over a loaded E90 ( 136 + 40 = 176 lbs / 80 kg )

I.e it's still possible I guess that all numbers given and the weights here are all correct. We need more details but it's not necessarily as bad as it first look.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The silliness here is profound.

Agreed. There are innumerable factors that have not been explored yet - everyone just take a chill pill and wait until we have more information (especially since we don't know exact weight differences between euro spec and us spec). We also don't know the full list of options in the two cars that were weighed - so no "lie" has been proven yet.

And besides - is still LIGHTER FASTER AND MORE ROOMY either way - geez.....

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by solstice

Looking at this again and assuming the scale is correct a fully loaded E90 M3 is 40 lbs heavier than a presumably fully loaded F80 when adding 89 lbs for DCT and 45 lbs for sunroof.

Maybe the difference between a euro stripper F80 and fully loaded US car is 211 lbs. ( 3351 vs. 3562 ). And maybe a loaded F80 has 136 lbs new equipment over a loaded E90 ( 136 + 40 = 176 lbs / 80 kg )

I.e it's still possible I guess that all numbers given and the weights here are all correct. We need more details but it's not necessarily as bad as it first look.

Excellent points - which is all the more reason all the chicken littles on here need more data before prematurely concluding that all these lies and conspiracies have come forth from Munich...

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Excellent points - which is all the more reason all the chicken littles on here need more data before prematurely concluding that all these lies and conspiracies have come forth from Munich...

I agree that it's too early to scream bloody murder but I also think the people who shrug their shoulders at the 211 lbs difference might not have done so if the hp numbers were potentially off with 6%. It would put it at 400 hp. I'm sure the outrage would have been even worse if that was measured while weight is as said before more important for most aspects of sporty driving. I'm sure we get this clarified soon enough though and that it won't be such bad of difference of what is specified and reality.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Seriously, think the best use of incremental dollars is to enhance what I already have vs looking to buy the new model. For $12k, can get a light bbk and lightweight wheels which save close to ~70 lbs in unsprung weight (with multiplicative effects on weight and feel). The E9x gen are keepers!

Yup

Like I said, the debate should really be squashed. The new car is lighter, however, stripper e9x's really can be setup with little money to be 35xx lbs with full fuel.

But, I reserve my final judgement until we see a 6mt m3/m4 with no options get on scales. Might be a surprise!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Looking at this again and assuming the scale is correct a fully loaded E90 M3 is 40 lbs heavier than a presumably fully loaded F80 when adding 89 lbs for DCT and 45 lbs for sunroof.

Maybe the difference between a euro stripper F80 and fully loaded US car is 211 lbs. ( 3351 vs. 3562 ). And maybe a loaded F80 has 136 lbs new equipment over a loaded E90 ( 136 + 40 = 176 lbs / 80 kg )

I.e it's still possible I guess that all numbers given and the weights here are all correct. We need more details but it's not necessarily as bad as it first look.

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Agreed. There are innumerable factors that have not been explored yet - everyone just take a chill pill and wait until we have more information (especially since we don't know exact weight differences between euro spec and us spec). We also don't know the full list of options in the two cars that were weighed - so no "lie" has been proven yet.

And besides - is still LIGHTER FASTER AND MORE ROOMY either way - geez.....

I'm sure you guys have seen the comment made by the mods over at Axis of O:

that's with a 6 speed, steel brakes, CF roof, and a bunch of other options like HUD, Premium stereo, big wheels...
Stee's e92 6 speed on the same scales weighed 3582 before it was put to "Axis spec"

A "bunch of other options" includes the premium stereo and HUD. Add navigation and some other electronic gadgets that adds a ECU or two and the weight increases incrementally Leather adds a few kilos etc.

As has been said by others before. The 3300lbs curb weight is not something BMW just can make up. To get a EU type approval the car has to be presented to a technical service (like TÜV) that tests all aspects of the vehicle, including fuel consumption, CO2 emissions and curb weight. At some time BMW clearly must have presented a car that has showed 3300lbs on that technical service's scales...

In the German brochure it also says very clearly that the DIN and EU weights are for a car with standard equipment and that options will increase the weight.

I guess we will have to wait for the first "stripper" M4, bought by a customer, is put on the scales before we can know for certain...

[Black Gold]

Boss, do you have a link to the axis of oversteer discussion?

It appears to me that I would say there is a *shot* for a base model USA spec f80 to weigh somewhere close to 3400-3450 lbs without exec, audio, etc. this is still notably lighter than a comparable e9x m3.

It definitely appears that upgrades sound with bigger speakers, amps and processors can add weight. As do the rear heated seats, HUD, heated steering wheel, extra cameras and lane departure tech. Plus full leather. Realistically anywhere from 35-75 lbs would be possible, but it's all speculation at this point.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

It definitely appears that upgrades sound with bigger speakers, amps and processors can add weight. As do the rear heated seats, HUD, heated steering wheel, extra cameras and lane departure tech. Plus full leather. Realistically anywhere from 35-75 lbs would be possible, but it's all speculation at this point.

Just added another option to the F80 M3's list. It had HK Audio.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Jason

Just added another option to the F80 M3's list. It had HK Audio.

What about exec? Or the drivers assistance etc?

[Kadema]

Just for clarification: I'm not saying that I believe that BMW committed some kind of willful deceit. Rather not. Actually I say by insisting on the assumption that the 3300lbs DIN weight figure is a marketing lie one is implying so, deliberately or not. I think we should better look for other explanations for this 3562lbs scale weight.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Boss, do you have a link to the axis of oversteer discussion?

It appears to me that I would say there is a *shot* for a base model USA spec f80 to weigh somewhere close to 3400-3450 lbs without exec, audio, etc. this is still notably lighter than a comparable e9x m3.

It definitely appears that upgrades sound with bigger speakers, amps and processors can add weight. As do the rear heated seats, HUD, heated steering wheel, extra cameras and lane departure tech. Plus full leather. Realistically anywhere from 35-75 lbs would be possible, but it's all speculation at this point.

The link is in the OP, just go to the A of O link and then scroll down to the comments below the post