Audi RS3

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by domino_z

How do the front wheels disengage drive from the engine under power to send 100% to rear

If the front wheels are free spinning, they cannot transmit any torque.

And as I said, this is unlikely in real life. That's where the marketing gimmick lies. It's a far cry from the true 40:60 quattro split in my wife's previous B7 S4. A simple dab of throttle in the snow would send th car in a nice sideways drift.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by domino_z

i owned pre-facelift FL in a sportback

don't be honey dicked by the marketing tricks and ill informed journos, the car cannot send 100% power to the rear, any understanding of how an east west engine and a haldex rear diff works proves this

Is the Haldex is the RS3 sedan and LCI RS3 hatchback mechanically identical (or at least equivalent) to the one in the pre-LCI hatchback? Bear in mind that he drivetrain was updated significantly, with the new higher output, aluminum-block engine being the most obvious change.

If you read reviews of second generation the TT RS, they cover the new Haldex system in that car, and emphasize the improvements. Now, I don't know whether the RS3 was the benefactor of that hardware or not, and if it was, whether it was programmed to behave the same way. But it seems somewhat likely, and seems worthy of investigation before drawing any conclusions about the newer vehicles' behavior based on your experience with the outgoing model.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Is the Haldex is the RS3 sedan and LCI RS3 hatchback mechanically identical (or at least equivalent) to the one in the pre-LCI hatchback? Bear in mind that he drivetrain was updated significantly, with the new higher output, aluminum-block engine being the most obvious change.

If you read reviews of second generation the TT RS, they cover the new Haldex system in that car, and emphasize the improvements. Now, I don't know whether the RS3 was the benefactor of that hardware or not, and if it was, whether it was programmed to behave the same way. But it seems somewhat likely, and seems worthy of investigation before drawing any conclusions about the newer vehicles' behavior based on your experience with the outgoing model.

My understanding is that the main difference between the variants lies in the programming of the Haldex unit. It is quite possible that in the RS versions they have a more robust clutch pack in the Haldex to handle quicker transfers and greater amounts of torque, but the basic principle remains unchanged. The Haldex is a permanent FWD with variable RWD capability.

I often read that a Haldex is limited between a 100:0 to 50:50 F:R torque split because of this. And this is not accurate, simply because torque transfer is dependent on resistance. Less resistance means less torque transfer. When the center Haldex clutch pack is locked, it is the rotational speed that is locked between the axles, not the amount of torque transfered. For instance, on a hard launch, if there is only 30% of weight on the front wheels, they cannot take more than 30% of the torque, otherwise they would spin. Since the rotational speed of the front and rear axles are locked together, the front cannot spin any faster than the rear, hence more torque is transferred to the rear axle. Not through clever electronics nor trick diffs, just through simple physics.

This becomes tricky when the grip between the front right and left wheels is unequal. Since the front axle relies on an open diff, there could be a side-to-side speed difference with one wheel slipping. However, the open diff relies on brake application to prevent this, so the spinning front wheel will be braked to transfer power to the other side. I believe that is what we see in the video of post #118, where the small amout of observed intermitent front wheel slip is the result of the e-diff managing traction between the two front wheels. However, applying the brakes offers an added resistance on the front axle, which in turn robs torque from the rear axle, which is not ideal.

Now, during cornering, when the front wheels have about the same amount of grip than the rears, that is where a Haldex system falls short. It cannot send more than 50% of the torque reward to yield power oversteer. Something a true Torsen Quattro system can.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Long awaited and thanks for the pics Love the color of the RS.

I understand that the staggered setup for the RS3 are wider 255 in front and thinner 235 in rear. I've never experienced a car like this, my old s4 was square. How would this affect the understeer tendencies of the awd system, front biased weight, etc of the car? Also, would be curious as you are driving this car more and more, how the thin tires respond to aggressive driving. 235MM Wow, I have to go back to 1999 for a car I owned with such thin tires!

Does the RS3 have any body roll compared to the m4?

As far as rattles, I have to complain that bmw seems to have the most rattles of the german brands. Although all cars have rattles, the bmw's seem to get theirs quite early.

Thanks for the insightful review~!

We just came back from some shopping and I played with the RS3 settings a little. Setting the Quattro in Dynamic and having the DSC system in Sport mode yields a much more neutral handling. The front firmly bites and the rear nicely swings around. And this is still on the square 235 winter tires.

I am pretty sure the wider lower profile 255/30 front summer tires will help even more balance the handling.

235 tires aren't that narrow. My 2001 M3 had 225 front tires. My wife heavy as a pig 2006 S4 had 235 all around.

The RS3 corners pretty flat, but I can't say it rolls any less than my M4 (my M4 does ride on Eibachs though).

[nicknaz]

Do you know if rs3 differentials have enough cooling for track usage? Or will it be like the focus rs that needs aftermarket coolers?

I get that isn't the use case you purchased it for, but I'm always curious for performance street cars how much is marketing vs how much is actual capability

Anyone coming to rs3 from a modified evo or sti?

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Do you know if rs3 differentials have enough cooling for track usage? Or will it be like the focus rs that needs aftermarket coolers?

I get that isn't the use case you purchased it for, but I'm always curious for performance street cars how much is marketing vs how much is actual capability

Anyone coming to rs3 from a modified evo or sti?

There is no diff cooling or even the same approach to over engineering a total cooling system like the f8x, in fact bmw M is unique in this aspect compared to RS and AMG

I built a 300awkw Evo x, fbo inc high flow turbo and full dodson trans on ohlins dfv's

The rs3 has nothing on it, it's laughable to even compare the 2 awd systems and chassis, sorry to offend any Audi fanboys

Where the Audi shines is in build quality, daily comfort and engine sound

Look at the cornering speed difference compared to my rs3 vid above, the evo was a 10/10ths car

[cotmfk]

I used to have Evo 8 and Evo IX MR. (Shouldn't have sold the second one!!) They were fun cars. Much more raw than stuff being put out nowadays.


Thanks for posting that vid. Fun stuff. But man - I'm not used to driving on "the wrong side" of the road (haha). The first time a car passed you going the other way, my heart jumped - oh snap accident coming!! hahaha

[espressoo]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The front end looks pretty aggressive. I just wish the rear fenders better matches with the front ones. Similar to how the older RS models stood out. That's my only compliant in the looks department.

Congrats though! Your wife now has the more badass car!

[neilum]

Originally Posted by espressoo

The front end looks pretty aggressive. I just wish the rear fenders better matches with the front ones. Similar to how the older RS models stood out. That's my only compliant in the looks department.

Congrats though! Your wife now has the more badass car!

Sarcasm?

[espressoo]

Originally Posted by neilum

Sarcasm?

Not really. An aging stock appearance 2015 M4 isn't as cool as the brand new RS3 parked next to it. Plus an RS model is pretty rare. Ask 10 car enthusiasts which of the parked car they want to take for a spin around the block and most would probably pick the RS3.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Not really. An aging stock appearance 2015 M4 isn't as cool as the brand new RS3 parked next to it. Plus an RS model is pretty rare. Ask 10 car enthusiasts which of the parked car they want to take for a spin around the block and most would probably pick the RS3.

Honestly though, despite how much I find the RS3 enjoyable, if I had to pick one of the two, the M4 would be it

[pz619]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Honestly though, despite how much I find the RS3 enjoyable, if I had to pick one of the two, the M4 would be it

Yeah I'll be the second enthusiast to vote. I would go M4 for sure.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Not really. An aging stock appearance 2015 M4 isn't as cool as the brand new RS3 parked next to it. Plus an RS model is pretty rare. Ask 10 car enthusiasts which of the parked car they want to take for a spin around the block and most would probably pick the RS3.

I don't think so. Most would choose the ///M

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Ask 10 car enthusiasts which of the parked car they want to take for a spin around the block and most would probably pick the RS3.

you wished

[neilum]

Originally Posted by espressoo

Not really. An aging stock appearance 2015 M4 isn't as cool as the brand new RS3 parked next to it. Plus an RS model is pretty rare. Ask 10 car enthusiasts which of the parked car they want to take for a spin around the block and most would probably pick the RS3.

In that one picture which cuts off half the very dirty BMW with his winter tire setup? Sure the Audi looks nicer in that one isolated picture but in the real world an F80 looks way more aggressive and sharper. Not even close in fact.

The Audi doesn't even have fender flares and looks like every other Audi on the road which isn't a new design by any means.

I would also disagree with that hypothetical. R8 sure, hell even an older RS4 carries more respect/desire than a new RS3.


Besides rarity how is the Rs3 more badass? If anything the F80 is way more badass in that its advantages are primarily on the track for serious hardcore enthusiasts (better cooling, chassis balance, better brakes, handling etc). The things the Audi does better are for 6th/10th's driving, more for the casual driver. Doesn't make any sense.

Calling a FWD based haldex car "badass" without fender flares, no real styling cues to look special, and not a superstar on the track seems odd to me. Hell its not even that fast in the big picture. Sorry I don't see how its badass exactly. Cool, yeah, very capable sure...

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by neilum

Hell its not even that fast in the big picture. Sorry I don't see how its badass exactly. Cool, yeah, very capable sure...

It's pretty damn fast in my book. It'll beat us til we get close to 100 mph.

Nevermind off the line awd punch.

[cotmfk]

The RS3 is a cool, capable car. But there's no way that I would trade/sell the M4 to get the RS3. So... that tells you my perspective.

Granted, a buyer of a new RS3 can afford an M4 (at least used), so the two cars are competing with each other, even if they are very different.

[Baylorguy]

So I had a stage 2 S3 and had an RS3 on order, which I then cancelled, and picked up a ZCP M3. I would choose the M3. It feels more special and has an aggressiveness that the Audis do not have. Audi is understated whereas M is "get out of my way or I will swallow you whole."

The RS3 is an amazing car, and I am personally very envious that CanAut has both in his household! Although, he is missing an RS7

[Champagne_Reign]

rs3 is a way smaller car. a3 and 3 series cars are NOT the same. The audi's awd system is NOT light, so the rs3 isn't as light as it should be for a car that size. A4's and s4's are in line with the 3 series, but audi does not sell the m3 equivalent in the US (assuming you live here) which is the RS4 avant or the RS5 coupe. Those cars also weigh more than the m3 and m4

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Champagne_Reign

rs3 is a way smaller car. a3 and 3 series cars are NOT the same. The audi's awd system is NOT light, so the rs3 isn't as light as it should be for a car that size. A4's and s4's are in line with the 3 series, but audi does not sell the m3 equivalent in the US (assuming you live here) which is the RS4 avant or the RS5 coupe. Those cars also weigh more than the m3 and m4

I agree, the RS3 and M3 do not compete in the same market segment at all. They are not in the same price, size, luxury nor performance bracket.

However, the RS3 is not that heavy. At ~3550lb, it weighs about the same as an M2 or CLA45, which are in the same performance segment. Further, it is about the same size as our now gone B7 S4 that weighed 3800lb+. The Haldex AWD system in the RS3 is not as performance oriented as the true Torsen Quattro system, but it does weigh quite a bit less.

[dmboone25]

So I was finally able to see the RS3 in the flesh, and to compare the visual aspects with my F80.

The RS3 really does look nice on its own, and surrounded by other Audis. But in comparison to the F80, it does come across as much more tame and potentially boring. I still like many of the visual aspects, but not enough to buy the car.

We added an M2 to the stable instead.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I agree, the RS3 and M3 do not compete in the same market segment at all. They are not in the same price, size, luxury nor performance bracket.

However, the RS3 is not that heavy. At ~3550lb, it weighs about the same as an M2 or CLA45, which are in the same performance segment. Further, it is about the same size as our now gone B7 S4 that weighed 3800lb+. The Haldex AWD system in the RS3 is not as performance oriented as the true Torsen Quattro system, but it does weigh quite a bit less.

Any idea on the haldex differences between an S3 and Rs3? I cannot get any sort of clear answers on this.