2018 Mustang GT is as fast as an M3/4 in a straight line for $35k

[aBMWfan]

I raced my friend (2015 Shelby GT500) in my m4 (only mods were Akrapovic Evo exhaust, Dinan Stage 2 tune, and VFF 103's with wide tires)

*Mexico Canyons

I decided to push into the wine country, and my friend kept up for a bit. Then I hit buck 45 and it stuck very well around the long right turn. Shelby was nowhere to be seen for 15 seconds.

My point is the gt350's give the 2015 F8x's a bit of run for their money, but the GT's are straight line beasts, freeway cruisers. I would still trust the f82 in the canyons more

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

I raced my friend (2015 Shelby GT500) in my m4 (only mods were Akrapovic Evo exhaust, Dinan Stage 2 tune, and VFF 103's with wide tires)

*Mexico Canyons

I decided to push into the wine country, and my friend kept up for a bit. Then I hit buck 45 and it stuck very well around the long right turn. Shelby was nowhere to be seen for 15 seconds.

My point is the gt350's give the 2015 F8x's a bit of run for their money, but the GT's are straight line beasts, freeway cruisers. I would still trust the f82 in the canyons more

Not EVEN remotely comparable.

The 2015 GT500 is the old live axle platform.

Seriously people, get with the times.

A 2018 GT with PP, IRS, magnetic ride will kill any previous GT500's in the curves.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Not EVEN remotely comparable.

The 2015 GT500 is the old live axle platform.

Seriously people, get with the times.

A 2018 GT with PP, IRS, magnetic ride will kill any previous GT500's in the curves.

The IRS on the new Mustangs has done wonders. You can always find an American car that will run with some of the best from Europe for a fraction of the price given their economies of scale and less refined interiors (which have gotten better). The GT350/R, the Z06/ZR1, ZL1/1LE are all very great on track most of those also cost less than an M3, M4 or C63 yet will ready wreak havoc on them on track or on a curvy road. These days you don’t even need more than a GT or 1LE to match the 80-90k M/AMG. Even in last year’s Lightening Lap didn’t the 38K Camaro 1LE beat the M4 GTS (which really isn’t a great performer especially at the price) despite the 100K difference. That says it all.

[nicknaz]

Those m4 gts comparo results have done so much damage to the rep of m3 in my opinion. $100+ "all out factory track car" that isn't that fast is such a let down

[86merc]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

I raced my friend (2015 Shelby GT500)

There is no 2015 GT500. Was it the 2014 and older, solid axle, nose heavy, GT500? I doubt it was a 2015 GT350 as only a handful were made. A 2016-17 GT350 maybe?

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

Then I hit buck 45 and it stuck very well around the long right turn. Shelby was nowhere to be seen for 15 seconds.

That probably has a lot to do with your willingness to drive like that versus the car's capabilities.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Those m4 gts comparo results have done so much damage to the rep of m3 in my opinion. $100+ "all out factory track car" that isn't that fast is such a let down

It seems people expected a lot more from that car considering the limited production and price.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Those m4 gts comparo results have done so much damage to the rep of m3 in my opinion. $100+ "all out factory track car" that isn't that fast is such a let down

I wouldn't just look at the worst lap times from American car mags.

If you look at fastestlaps.com body of work of all lap times of the GTS, you will see quite an extensive amount of lap times. Here are at least 3 tracks that the GTS showed amazing times:

Hockenheim Short:



Sacshenring:



Circuit de Nevers:



GTS is in the company of the GT-R, 458, AMG GT S.

I am not sure what you are expecting for a sedan based luxury sports coupe, but it's in good company to me.

Taking a more than cursory approach to cars oftentimes reveal much more than what Motortrend sells us, whether it's about BMW or any other brand of cars.

http://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4-gts

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

On the other side of the coin I am thinking about the new raptor to replace my x5m.

But then the interior is full of hard plastics, leather is not close to the nappa I have and the new 10 speed tranny doesn't like to shift manually, shift speeds are slow and the experience sucks compared to the zf. Kind of have to compromise for the off road performance, but still rather disappointed for almost 70k and no discounts.

Yeah the 10speed is a slush box compared to the ZF

[F80Moe]

No..

A GT350 yes better matched with the edge going to the M in a straight line

Standard GT no way.. Took a 2017 GT Exhaust/Headers/Intake/Manifold/Tune to keep up with my 6M/T M3 with exhaust only

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by F80Moe

No..

A GT350 yes better matched with the edge going to the M in a straight line

Standard GT no way.. Took a 2017 GT Exhaust/Headers/Intake/Manifold/Tune to keep up with my 6M/T M3 with exhaust only

2018 is a different GT than the 2017...not to mention the 25/25 bump in HP and TQ

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

2018 is a different GT than the 2017...not to mention the 25/25 bump in HP and TQ

Also the 2018 has better sounding exhaust. The NA V8 sounds awesome, better than an M4 or M5. And fast in a straight line for half the price. Car will potentially turn more heads and get more thumbs up.

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Also the 2018 has better sounding exhaust. The NA V8 sounds awesome, better than an M4 or M5. And fast in a straight line for half the price. Car will potentially turn more heads and get more thumbs up.

Haven't heard one as of yet but they sure are good looking cars with great performance at half the cost. Granted the interior isn't as nice as the BMW but I could get over that very easily for something that would not be my daily driver. The GT350 is on my radar for next summer......or could save alot of $$$ and pick up a GT with the PP. Hats off to Ford on the Mustang!

[DinoDan]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

lol you guys keep dismissing the muscle cars as poor handling cars that will fall behind on a track.. the truth is not only have they caught up but arguably build better handling cars for half the price

save for some of the refinement the only reason you'll buy the M4 is for the name/status

[m4282]

Originally Posted by Z K

I think the GT350 is awesome... regular GT just doesn't look the part.

Straight line is one thing, I'm more interested in a track beast.

I also ran a new Mustang GT... past 100, the M3 pulls away - The mustang doesn't have power in the high rpm range. In Mexico of course.

I love Mexico

[F80Moe]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

2018 is a different GT than the 2017...not to mention the 25/25 bump in HP and TQ

Yes I know.. Revised Coyote gen 3

Still I dont think its going to be faster than a fully bolted 17.

18 dyno showed 415whp
17 fully bolted I have seen 430-440whp

Only one way to find out then

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I am not sure what you are expecting for a sedan based luxury sports coupe, but it's in good company to me.

Taking a more than cursory approach to cars oftentimes reveal much more than what Motortrend sells us, whether it's about BMW or any other brand of cars.

I think it depends on how you eval the car.. You're looking at it as sedan based luxury car, and by that yardstick, you're right.. It's great..

I would argue that applies to base M3/M4..

and I think the $130k+ GTS is meant to be a factory track star (because it comes with a half cage, semi stripped interior, full coilovers, adjustable aero).. by that yardstick.. I think you're being overly generous

Most of us know better than to take magazines at face value, but the press does play a role in building the reputation of a brand, and having the base M3 sedan at launch being tested with cup 2 tires and even just front camber plates would have done wonders (IMHO) from a reputation standpoint

[allinon72]

This might be a bit snobby, but I don't like driving cars that I see at every stoplight. I don't dispute that American muscle cars have made great strides, but in the midwest Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, and Challengers are driven by literally everyone. It gets worse as the model ages and the resale value drops like a rock, then you have teenagers driving the same car around. It doesn't help that they'll lease or finance them to anyone with a pulse.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by allinon72

This might be a bit snobby, but I don't like driving cars that I see at every stoplight. I don't dispute that American muscle cars have made great strides, but in the midwest Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, and Challengers are driven by literally everyone. It gets worse as the model ages and the resale value drops like a rock, then you have teenagers driving the same car around. It doesn't help that they'll lease or finance them to anyone with a pulse.

If you lived in CA you might be better off with a gt350 then if you are going for "rarity"

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I think it depends on how you eval the car.. You're looking at it as sedan based luxury car, and by that yardstick, you're right.. It's great..

I would argue that applies to base M3/M4..

and I think the $130k+ GTS is meant to be a factory track star (because it comes with a half cage, semi stripped interior, full coilovers, adjustable aero).. by that yardstick.. I think you're being overly generous

Most of us know better than to take magazines at face value, but the press does play a role in building the reputation of a brand, and having the base M3 sedan at launch being tested with cup 2 tires and even just front camber plates would have done wonders (IMHO) from a reputation standpoint

I understand what you are saying, but even the base M3/M4 track numbers are at or above the same level as its competitors, if you look at the entire body of work on all tracks. In my younger years, I've bought cars based on reviews (S4) and acceleration numbers (C63), but the actual driving experiences were not good, and I learned to be more discriminating.

As far as the new Mustang GT, option the car with comparable equipment- I spec'd one myself at 51k. Certainly cheaper than an M4 msrp but a higher spec'd Mustang will depreciate more than its 35k start price. Much like a 90k+ spec'd M4 depreciates more than a 70k+ spec'd one. Moreover, the 10 speed auto that it shares with the Raptor as well as GM products (co developed) shifts fast in auto, but in manual, the shift logic does not compare to the dct or even the zf. I need an auto, and it won't work for me.

Factor in great lease rates and free maintenance on the bmw, what is the real spread of owning the 2 cars for the first 3-4 years? Is it going to be a 35k vs 80k car like some on this thread are comparing?

Don't get me wrong, I've owned domestic brands, I'm looking at a new Raptor myself, and I applaud their performance numbers, but let's get beyond the cursory overview.

As far as the M4 GTS, certainly it could be better, and cheaper, I'm not going to argue with that. BMW marketing decided to make it limited and expensive, greatly increasing expectations and hype.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by allinon72

This might be a bit snobby, but I don't like driving cars that I see at every stoplight. I don't dispute that American muscle cars have made great strides, but in the midwest Mustangs, Camaros, Chargers, and Challengers are driven by literally everyone. It gets worse as the model ages and the resale value drops like a rock, then you have teenagers driving the same car around. It doesn't help that they'll lease or finance them to anyone with a pulse.

Sounds like BMW

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

As far as the new Mustang GT, option the car with comparable equipment- I spec'd one myself at 51k. Certainly cheaper than an M4 msrp but a higher spec'd Mustang will depreciate more than its 35k start price. Much like a 90k+ spec'd M4 depreciates more than a 70k+ spec'd one.

How is your M4 spec'd? Maybe that's the difference in our point of view.

My M3 was cloth seats, no exec package. A comparable Mustang GT for me would be pretty much a base car.

PP2 would give a level of performance that I think will require M4 CS to match from the factory (305 wide cup tires in PP2 is pretty amazing)

Amazing value and performance coming from Ford and GM. I would argue these current cars are the best performance cars they are making in the last 30 years.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

How is your M4 spec'd? Maybe that's the difference in our point of view.

My M3 was cloth seats, no exec package. A comparable Mustang GT for me would be pretty much a base car.

PP2 would give a level of performance that I think will require M4 CS to match from the factory (305 wide cup tires in PP2 is pretty amazing)

Amazing value and performance coming from Ford and GM. I would argue these current cars are the best performance cars they are making in the last 30 years.

If you just add the GT performance package- with a proper diff, and larger cooling, better brakes, sway bars, upgraded springs, you will be at 40k, which is the average car price transaction at Ford Dealers (all cars).

That's with a manual tranny, no active exhaust, no mag ride, non metallic paint, cloth interior, no alarm, no dual zone climate, no nav, basic audio, etc.

My spec GT would include metallic paint, auto box, premium plus pack, enhanced security pack, Performance pack, magneride dampers, active exhaust= $51,165.00, i didn't go for the driver aids, recaros, carbon fiber pack, etc

My M3 is rather loaded and upgraded with full leather interior.

And after 3 years of ownership, the m3 is now worth about 54k-56k used, and the same mustang will be worth 34k-36k? A difference of less than 5k of depreciation, or a <20% premium for owning an M3.

[nicknaz]

Are you using a discounted purchase price for your m3 vs sticker price for mustang in that calculation?

I wouldn't be surprised if people will be able to get a new $40k mustang for $30k-$35k given how much cash gets put on the hood of the non Shelby mustangs.

I get your point and agree the spread isn't that much in terms of cost to own as the thread title suggests.