EVO UK : RS5 vs M4 CP vs C63 S

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You must be quoting sales worldwide.

Here in the US, Guilia's sold about 5,500 ytd.. lower than the ATS and XE, not in the best of company.

Attachment 1692333

Attachment 1692334


Reliability is objective, it is not like commenting on steering feel, or engine sound. Your good experience does not negate the car's problems with Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Car and Driver, PistonHeads, etc. FCA products have consistently ranked far below average.

That's interesting. Combining coupes and sedan figures, BMW is leading the US sales segment with the 3 and 4 series. I didn't know that.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

You speak like a true jealous, hate-filled individual. And just to be clear, my girl and I each got one. Do you also want a picture of my Ducati 899 Panigale too?

Best of luck with the RS3. The fact that it is ruffling so many BMW M feathers already ought to be consolation in and of itself! Lol

Quick anecdote: My girlfriend and I were out for a nice drive on this past Sunday, and pulled into a local farmstand where there were about 3-4 M3/M4 drivers (out for a cruise and) parked in the lot. We saw them sitting on a bench, glaring at my Quadrifoglio the entire time we were at the farmstand. I bet my girlfriend that not a single one if them would even get up to check it out, yet they stared at it the entire time we pulled up, were shopping, and then driving away. One dude even took a quick cell phone pic. We had a good laugh over their skulking jealous behavior.

Expect to experience more of the same yourself while enjoying your RS.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's interesting. Combining coupes and sedan figures, BMW is leading the US sales segment with the 3 and 4 series. I didn't know that.

I’d imagine that aggressive lease rates may have quite a bit to do with that though, not to mention the littany of variants (320, 330, 340, 430, 440, Gran Coupes, etc...). The 3 series and 4 series alone have more models alone than the entire of Jaguar. I’m fairly positive that is not much of benefit when paying upwards of $70-90k for a top rung models. Doesn’t that kind of dilute the exclusivity and “specialness” of actually owning one? That’s one of the top reasons why Giulia and Jaguar buyers have bolted from BMW.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

No, 3-4 negative comments are subjective, not objective. If there was a global recall for 10s of thousands of defective water pumps, that would be subjective. Did you expect a completely new model from a newly re-launched brand into a country after 28 years absence to immediately be the number one selling model in it’s segment? If so, that would be objectively stupid.

Again, I have not had any if the issues because I got the original software updates done right away during the 2nd week of ownership when they became available. Haven’t been back to the dealership for service since, now over 7k miles later, other than when the GM asked me to show my car to a potential QV buyer. They are only getting 5-6 for the MY2017. I don’t mind because I live about 4 miles from the dealership (which is also a Rolls Royce, Bentley, Lamborghini, and Maserati dealer).

BTW...with the Stelvio launch, Alfa will finish with about 14-15k units. However, the current Giulia run-rate alone normalizes to around 12k/year. The car has only been available in any significant volume since about May.

I get it, you’re a diehard BMW fanboy and there is nothing wrong with that. Just don’t be a jerk towards other manufacturer’s cars, especially those that have garnered exceptional commentaries/reviews for bettering the prior standard of the segment. I’m sure it hurts to hear another car that you don’t own getting really positive reviews for its driving dynamics, but it is what it is. True car guys appreciate all makes, not talk them down like jealous junior high school girls. Just saying, Bro.

While you’re cherry-picking sales data, can you riddle me why 3 Series sales are tanking like a rock since 2015 (well after the introduction of the 4 Series)? Clearly, the BMW 3 Series is being passed over by lots of potential buyers for a reason, and a large percentage of those have chosen Alfa over BMW. Only time will tell how reliable Alfa actually is. It mine cause me problems, I’ll vote with my wallet towards a different brand, but so far, 35% of the time I owned my M3; my Quadrifoglio has been much MORE reliable than the M3 was for me. Perhaps YMMV.

I'm not cherry picking sales data. I posted numbers both sales by category and sales by month, for the entire YEAR. You are posting 12k-14k Guilia's sold by the end of the year which is from where exactly?

The 3/4 series is the #1 sellers in their categories. Plenty of good cars in the mix, with the C class coming in a close 2.

Calm down.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

I’d imagine that aggressive lease rates may have quite a bit to do with that though, not to mention the littany of variants (320, 330, 340, 430, 440, Gran Coupes, etc...). The 3 series and 4 series alone have more models alone than the entire of Jaguar. I’m fairly positive that is not much of benefit when paying upwards of $70-90k for a top rung models. Doesn’t that kind of dilute the exclusivity and “specialness” of actually owning one? That’s one of the top reasons why Giulia and Jaguar buyers have bolted from BMW.

You've got an answer for that too.

Clearly, you own a lot of mirrors.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I'm not cherry picking sales data. I posted numbers both sales by category and sales by month. You are posting 12k-14k Guilia's sold by the end of the year which is from where exactly?

The 3/4 series is the #1 sellers in their categories. Plenty of good cars in the mix, with the C class coming in a close 2.

Calm down.

If your spending $70-90K for an M3/M4, is that a good thing??? Maybe it’s just me, but I found that kind of a turn-off.

Based on the current run rates, I believe the Guila will finish the year strong with between 12-14k in sales now that they finally have some competitive lease rates. In the beginning of the year, the cars were positioned for sale, not lease. Hence, why I purchased mine instead of leasing like I usually do. I much prefer leasing because it is much more economical when doing a lease assignment to exit before lease termination than buying and trading/selling.

Swapalease is a frequent car-swapper’s best friend.

[mcc3456]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You've got an answer for that too.

Clearly, you own a lot of mirrors.

Congratulations, Bro. You continue typify the BMW driver stereotype...yet another reason why many more mature folks have abandoned the brand. I think Clarkson hit it right on the head. Damn shame because the cars are pretty darn good, but the attitude is extremely off-putting. Keep up the good work at representing the brand!

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Best of luck with the RS3. The fact that it is ruffling so many BMW M feathers already ought to be consolation in and of itself! Lol

Quick anecdote: My girlfriend and I were out for a nice drive on this past Sunday, and pulled into a local farmstand where there were about 3-4 M3/M4 drivers (out for a cruise and) parked in the lot. We saw them sitting on a bench, glaring at my Quadrifoglio the entire time we were at the farmstand. I bet my girlfriend that not a single one if them would even get up to check it out, yet they stared at it the entire time we pulled up, were shopping, and then driving away. One dude even took a quick cell phone pic. We had a good laugh over their skulking jealous behavior.

Expect to experience more of the same yourself while enjoying your RS.

Funny in your anecdotes you're the one picking your own ass and smelling roses on your fingers.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

If your spending $70-90K for an M3/M4, is that a good thing??? Maybe it’s just me, but I found that kind of a turn-off.

Based on the current run rates, I believe the Guila will finish the year strong with between 12-14k in sales now that they finally have some competitive lease rates. In the beginning of the year, the cars were positioned for sale, not lease. Hence, why I purchased mine instead of leasing like I usually do. I much prefer leasing because it is much more economical when doing a lease assignment to exit before lease termination than buying and trading/selling.

Swapalease is a frequent car-swapper’s best friend.

Here, I bolded the parts where you are picking your own ass and answered nobody's question, but patted your own back.

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Best of luck with the RS3. The fact that it is ruffling so many BMW M feathers already ought to be consolation in and of itself! Lol

Quick anecdote: My girlfriend and I were out for a nice drive on this past Sunday, and pulled into a local farmstand where there were about 3-4 M3/M4 drivers (out for a cruise and) parked in the lot. We saw them sitting on a bench, glaring at my Quadrifoglio the entire time we were at the farmstand. I bet my girlfriend that not a single one if them would even get up to check it out, yet they stared at it the entire time we pulled up, were shopping, and then driving away. One dude even took a quick cell phone pic. We had a good laugh over their skulking jealous behavior.

Expect to experience more of the same yourself while enjoying your RS.

So now you are Kreskin.....you know what people are thinking from afar by the look on their face? And to boot you know that they are jealous of your car. Got it. I think I've heard it all now

[adc]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

You speak like a true jealous, hate-filled individual. And just to be clear, my girl and I each got one. Do you also want a picture of my Ducati 899 Panigale too?

I stand corrected. But it would be quite impossible to be jealous of someone driving an RS3. If I had that kind of doubt, I'd swap my M3 for one, as simple as that.

What about your M4, or 911?

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by adc

I stand corrected. But it would be quite impossible to be jealous of someone driving an RS3. If I had that kind of doubt, I'd swap my M3 for one, as simple as that.

What about your M4, or 911?

Right, LOL. Was you who commented on my post, not the other way around. Otherwise you must just love to eat crow...

What about them?

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Best of luck with the RS3. The fact that it is ruffling so many BMW M feathers already ought to be consolation in and of itself! Lol

Quick anecdote: My girlfriend and I were out for a nice drive on this past Sunday, and pulled into a local farmstand where there were about 3-4 M3/M4 drivers (out for a cruise and) parked in the lot. We saw them sitting on a bench, glaring at my Quadrifoglio the entire time we were at the farmstand. I bet my girlfriend that not a single one if them would even get up to check it out, yet they stared at it the entire time we pulled up, were shopping, and then driving away. One dude even took a quick cell phone pic. We had a good laugh over their skulking jealous behavior.

Expect to experience more of the same yourself while enjoying your RS.

Thank you! You too on the QV. I had one in my sights, but ended up going to try something just a bit different in the RS3, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it! Funny because I brought it to Caffeine & Carburetors in New Canaan this past weekend and couldn't even walk away from the car the first 10 mins because so many people came up to ask about it...

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Thank you! You too on the QV. I had one in my sights, but ended up going to try something just a bit different in the RS3, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it! Funny because I brought it to Caffeine & Carburetors in New Canaan this past weekend and couldn't even walk away from the car the first 10 mins because so many people came up to ask about it...

go back a few pages, same guy, different day. You've been trolled.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Attachment 1692524

go back a few pages, same guy, different day. You've been trolled.

Hadn't read that post, but makes no difference to me as it isn't reflective of reality.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Best of luck with the RS3. The fact that it is ruffling so many BMW M feathers already ought to be consolation in and of itself! Lol

Quick anecdote: My girlfriend and I were out for a nice drive on this past Sunday, and pulled into a local farmstand where there were about 3-4 M3/M4 drivers (out for a cruise and) parked in the lot. We saw them sitting on a bench, glaring at my Quadrifoglio the entire time we were at the farmstand. I bet my girlfriend that not a single one if them would even get up to check it out, yet they stared at it the entire time we pulled up, were shopping, and then driving away. One dude even took a quick cell phone pic. We had a good laugh over their skulking jealous behavior.

Expect to experience more of the same yourself while enjoying your RS.

I've been posting on various car boards since the 1990's and it's always the same. If you're BMW guy bragging about BMW's on MB or Audi boards, don't expect to make friends there. If you come here boasting about how much your Audi or Alfa is better than BMW, then expect to get challenged. If you can't take it, maybe go find a Alfa Gulia chat board for you to have kumbaya moments with like-minded owners.

And re your anecdote, I have one too. I saw the other day a Civic Type R and I stared and took a cell phone pic too. And stared again for a while because it was rare to see one, not because I want one (I don't). And if I were to see an Alfa Gulia (QV or not), I would stare too. Again, not because I want one (I don't), but because like a Honda Type R, it's a rare sight. Don't interpret anything more to it than that.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by mcc3456

Why the hate and negativity, Dude? I'm simply sharing my own good experience with the totally-re-engineered brand which is counter to all the negativity and ignorance spread by inexperienced people like youself. My ownership experience in the first 7 months has actually been easier with the Alfa than it was with my M3 during the same period of time. Perhaps some other people's experiences have been different, but I know several people with Quadrifoglios and base Giulia that have not experienced any of the mechanical issues written about in the magazines, other than software updates early on just after the car was launched, and even those were only for Auto Start/Stop, Remote Start, revising Infotainment system functions...which BTW, are not 10 years behind. I find they work really well once you've actually read the manual and get familiar with it...unlike the Nav in my M3 which sucked regarding routing accuracy, often routing you in circles, until you ignored it, and then it finally re-calculated the route. The only meaningfully good thing was it was easier zoom-in and out, but don't see much difference regarding overall usage.

Sorry to disappoint your clear desire for the Alfa ownership experience to be anything less than with a BMW. I love BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches and have owned about 20 during my driving lifetime, but have found the Alfa QV to be one of the best driving and most engaging cars so far. The car is a beast power/handling-wise and the (real) engine sound is just intoxicating. I'm definitely not alone in that assessment...providing a person has actually driven the car for any reasonable distance firsthand...unlike the insecure douches who haven't and tend to shit on anything threatening to their own car from the safety of their parent's basement.

Regarding AlfaCares aftermarket support, it has been awesome. I've called them with a few questions, and they almost always can answer it on the same call, but if they can't regarding a certain feature, or new accessories that is not yet carried at dealerships, they actually call me back with the answer. Perhaps they treat Quadrifoglio owners slightly differently than base Giulia owners in that regard, but I highly doubt it. They will end up selling about 12-14k Guilias this year, with only a small fraction of those being Quadrifoglios.

Personally, I'm very happy about that as I'm not too keen to see a ton of them on the road. I felt the M3/M4 were a little too dime a dozen in that regard. The specialness wore off pretty quickly...likely the reason why a lot of M owners tend to mod cars to differentiate them from the herd. Since getting the Quadrifoglio, I've felt very little desire to do things like a ECU flash, sprintbooster, exhaust, springs, wheels, aero kits, etc. For me, it's virtually perfect stock, and that's after having about $10k+ of mods on my M3 to make it how I felt it should have been from the factory. Stock, it was kind of lacking, but really great once modded. It's a shame customers have to complete the car that BMW should have built from the beginning...but then if they had, they wouldn't be able to charge gullible suckers more $$$ for less equipment on the littany of "special editions", right?

Anyway, good luck with your car. I'm very happy with mine. People really seem to respond to it based on the number of people chatting me up at gas stations, the thumbs ups received, rubber-necking on the highway, and even the number of people whipping out cell phones while driving their own cars to take a picture of it. My own M3 definitely never garnered that type of attention...except from other M3 owners. There is something very exotic about the Alfa, which sort of makes the ownership experience more fun. I'd usually already be planning my next purchase at this point, but have not even felt the need at this point. Guess I'm well pretty satisfied this time around.

Well by the sound of your rant, you continue to reinforce everyone's opinion here so there's not much that needs to be said. It's late and I've had a few, so here I go.

Perhaps your words are more welcomed on another forum. Hate from me? More like reality. I also get to track a lot of cars and have formed my own opinion on the Alfa. This is right along side a number of others who got the chance to drive one at a local track, albeit briefly, which was owned by a good friend of mine and we all formed a very similar opinion. Take away the stock tires, or wear them a bit and the grip is gone along with the fun initially experienced with the car. Did we experience limp mode and drivability issues? Yes. 4 times in less than 2 hours actually, so the car was beached and the reliable cars were driven, some of which were BMWs.

As far as the comments to me living in my parents basement, you really got me there. Aside from owning 4 houses currently and having children of my own, you nailed it on the head. I've also been privileged enough to own many cars as well, as you claim to have, and have a great deal of friends with cars much more expensive and/or rare than anything here in this forum.

So rather than deflecting, perhaps you should look in the mirror at your own insecurities and address them. I'll worry about mine.
Cheers

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Wasn't that test of the old RS3?

Unless the weight I saw of just over 3300 lbs was materially wrong... Part of it likely comes down to the slightly small dimensions and that fact that it actually is lighter (whether only 100 lbs or in fact 200 lbs).

Nope, have a look at link I posted. It's the sedan being tested by AM&S and there was no sedan version of the previous RS3.

To be fair though, the RS3 was tested on a very hot day and they said the track was quite dirty. That is why the new RS3 was actually ~1 second slower than the outdoing RS3 they tested previously. Just shows how ambient conditions can affect lap time (hint-hint) .

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Nope, have a look at link I posted. It's the sedan being tested by AM&S and there was no sedan version of the previous RS3.

To be fair though, the RS3 was tested on a very hot day and they said the track was quite dirty. That is why the new RS3 was actually ~1 second slower than the outdoing RS3 they tested previously. Just shows how ambient conditions can affect lap time (hint-hint) .

Don't disagree on the latter. I do think when one thinks a couple small aero changes all of a sudden add 1000% more downforce and equate to material deltas is a bit out of the realm of reasonableness (hint hint).

Did find this interesting. The old RS3 with a tune, (410 hp as stated) is neck and neck with an M4 from a roll. I'd imagine the new 8V is as quick or quicker and it certainly feels it. And from a dig, not close, which is certainly in line with expectations.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx559j7NyqQ

When do you take delivery of yours?

[REDEV217342]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Attachment 1692524

go back a few pages, same guy, different day. You've been trolled.

Ahhh haaaa. Fantastic. Wonder how often the 'ol boy will check back into this thread? Nice work

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by REDEV217342

Ahhh haaaa. Fantastic. Wonder how often the 'ol boy will check back into this thread? Nice work

Does this sound like someone you know?

Begin a post and then delete it.
Begin a lease and then break it.
Start something and never finishing it.
Love the shiniest, brightest new object you see.
Enjoy it, then throw it away.
Criticize others to inflate himself.
20 years from now, he'll still be beginning.