For those who are thinking about a 991.1, here is an insider review

[mbiondo]

Originally Posted by Rambler

Sure – a little long and irrational (as often is the case with fanatical car enthusiasts) but here goes!

I started off with a CPO 2015 GTS 7MT after trading in my E92 M3 for it a little over a year ago. There was no logical reason for that decision other than I longed to own a 911. I loved the GTS but after about 8 months with it, my wife and I discussed consolidating from 3 vehicles to 2. She would keep one of the two SUVs we had and I would still have a fun, sporty car that could also be used as a daily driver. But it had to be a dct or pdk as my wife cannot drive manual and we would need to swap vehicles frequently. So I traded the GTS for a 2015 Turbo S after confirming that she would be ok driving that. I felt the 991 TTS was kind of like a light weight Panamera, making for an amazing, sporty daily driver that would fulfill my wants of an all-in-one car.

But after about 2 months with the Turbo, she still hadn’t driven it and finally confessed that she was afraid to drive it being afraid that she might damage it on her watch. So I shook my head and smiled and debated whether to keep it that point. We still had both SUVs so for a second car, I was left wanting for something else as the 991 Turbo didn’t excite me enough as a weekend, fun kind of car. I considered going back to a 991 GTS again but at that point, the used prices had shot up about $10k from what I paid the previous year and I just didn’t want one bad enough again to pay that much more. My local dealer had both a 2007 GT3 and 2011 Turbo 6mt for sale so I went and checked them both out and fell in love with the Turbo (the GT3 seemed a little worn and was priced a little too high for my liking so I passed on that).

The 997 is more raucous and makes a lot more mechanical noises compared to the 991 Turbo, all in exciting, good ways that I really enjoy. Also, the 997.2 has essentially the same interior and infotainment as the 991.1. I think many who say the 997 looks dated inside often mean the 997.1 but overlook the updates to the .2.

I also love the driving dynamics of the 997’s shorter wheelbase. It just looks, drives, and feels smaller, even though the weight and dimensions are not significantly different. With the 991 generations, I was guilty of chasing magazine and Ring times and never gave the 997 a fair chance. That was mistake on my part as the 997 driving experience is fantastic and for the roads and tracks I drive on, the shorter wheelbase base is well suited to my driving preferences.

In fact, something about my 997 actually feels faster than my 991 TTS, not sure if it’s the gearing or just having a manual and the sensation of in-gear acceleration ripping you forward. On paper, I’m sure it’s not as fast but my physical senses tell me otherwise. The drivetrain has more of a machine-driven feel to it too; whereas the 991 TTS has that floaty jet plane type thrust. In the long run, a PDK 991 will be much easier to find if I ever decide to move back again but in the meantime, I feel the 997T manual offers a more unique experience.

Anyway, they are all awesome cars/gens but I love the blend of old and new in the 997.2.

A funny little side note on styling…my wife and friends could not tell any difference from the 991 other than the 997 is red vs. black in the 991. Most even thought I traded the 991 TTS for a brand new red one! I’m sure this misperception is pretty common among the general population too.

Thanks! Reason I asked is because I almost traded in my 997.2 C4S for a 991.1 and then almost again for a 991.2, but didn't have the heart to do it. Nothing wrong with the 991, and if I didn't have the current, I would definitely have gone straight to the latest and greatest. Something about my 997 that makes it tough to part with.

Side note: every time my dealer calls me to trade up, he offers more for my 997 than before. If this continues, he may reach a point where he gives me my full money back from what I paid new in 2010! We're almost there.

[Rambler]

^ You bet - As you can imagine, I’ve been asked that question a few times! It’s hard not to answer it in a way that seems like I’m being down on the 991 since I made a conscious choice to move from that gen to a 997. But I have nothing but love for the 991 which is amazing and aesthetically beautiful. There’s no wrong choice and it all comes down to personal preferences. If you haven’t driven one yet, you may want to give it a shot just to fully confirm for yourself whether the 4S is a keeper. Otherwise, the seed will always be growing in your mind. It’s easy to get 911 envy even as a 911 owner since every gen offers something different that makes you want it... same thing when you see them in different colors. I was even on the 964 warpath for a while earlier this year!

[TheStanman]

Thanks for the review. I'm in a similar situation - my F80 lease is ending in July and am strongly considering a 991.1 C2S. I drove one and really enjoyed the driving experience, ride (found to be better than F80), and powertrain.

How do you feel about the car for commute duty? I want an NA sports car but the reality is I spend 2 hours a day in stop-and-go Atlanta traffic.

I agree on the paddle shifters. I prefer the authoritative snap of the F80s. I also noticed an annoying soft spot at the top of the brake pedal. Does yours have that? I'm thinking mine was a specific issue with that car.

[Mike991M4]

Originally Posted by Rambler

Sure – a little long and irrational (as often is the case with fanatical car enthusiasts) but here goes!

I started off with a CPO 2015 GTS 7MT after trading in my E92 M3 for it a little over a year ago. There was no logical reason for that decision other than I longed to own a 911. I loved the GTS but after about 8 months with it, my wife and I discussed consolidating from 3 vehicles to 2. She would keep one of the two SUVs we had and I would still have a fun, sporty car that could also be used as a daily driver. But it had to be a dct or pdk as my wife cannot drive manual and we would need to swap vehicles frequently. So I traded the GTS for a 2015 Turbo S after confirming that she would be ok driving that. I felt the 991 TTS was kind of like a light weight Panamera, making for an amazing, sporty daily driver that would fulfill my wants of an all-in-one car.

But after about 2 months with the Turbo, she still hadn’t driven it and finally confessed that she was afraid to drive it being afraid that she might damage it on her watch. So I shook my head and smiled and debated whether to keep it that point. We still had both SUVs so for a second car, I was left wanting for something else as the 991 Turbo didn’t excite me enough as a weekend, fun kind of car. I considered going back to a 991 GTS again but at that point, the used prices had shot up about $10k from what I paid the previous year and I just didn’t want one bad enough again to pay that much more. My local dealer had both a 2007 GT3 and 2011 Turbo 6mt for sale so I went and checked them both out and fell in love with the Turbo (the GT3 seemed a little worn and was priced a little too high for my liking so I passed on that).

The 997 is more raucous and makes a lot more mechanical noises compared to the 991 Turbo, all in exciting, good ways that I really enjoy. Also, the 997.2 has essentially the same interior and infotainment as the 991.1. I think many who say the 997 looks dated inside often mean the 997.1 but overlook the updates to the .2.

I also love the driving dynamics of the 997’s shorter wheelbase. It just looks, drives, and feels smaller, even though the weight and dimensions are not significantly different. With the 991 generations, I was guilty of chasing magazine and Ring times and never gave the 997 a fair chance. That was mistake on my part as the 997 driving experience is fantastic and for the roads and tracks I drive on, the shorter wheelbase base is well suited to my driving preferences.

In fact, something about my 997 actually feels faster than my 991 TTS, not sure if it’s the gearing or just having a manual and the sensation of in-gear acceleration ripping you forward. On paper, I’m sure it’s not as fast but my physical senses tell me otherwise. The drivetrain has more of a machine-driven feel to it too; whereas the 991 TTS has that floaty jet plane type thrust. In the long run, a PDK 991 will be much easier to find if I ever decide to move back again but in the meantime, I feel the 997T manual offers a more unique experience.

Anyway, they are all awesome cars/gens but I love the blend of old and new in the 997.2.

A funny little side note on styling…my wife and friends could not tell any difference from the 991 other than the 997 is red vs. black in the 991. Most even thought I traded the 991 TTS for a brand new red one! I’m sure this misperception is pretty common among the general population too.

Good to know. Was thinking of trading my 991.1 C2S 7 speed in on a TTS. I had a C2S with PDK before and it wasn't as exciting but I was thinking the extra power and goodies would make up for it. Think I'll stick with my NA 7 speed.

[sameh]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

Thanks for the review. I'm in a similar situation - my F80 lease is ending in July and am strongly considering a 991.1 C2S. I drove one and really enjoyed the driving experience, ride (found to be better than F80), and powertrain.

How do you feel about the car for commute duty? I want an NA sports car but the reality is I spend 2 hours a day in stop-and-go Atlanta traffic.

I agree on the paddle shifters. I prefer the authoritative snap of the F80s. I also noticed an annoying soft spot at the top of the brake pedal. Does yours have that? I'm thinking mine was a specific issue with that car.

Originally Posted by TheStanman

Thanks for the review. I'm in a similar situation - my F80 lease is ending in July and am strongly considering a 991.1 C2S. I drove one and really enjoyed the driving experience, ride (found to be better than F80), and powertrain.

How do you feel about the car for commute duty? I want an NA sports car but the reality is I spend 2 hours a day in stop-and-go Atlanta traffic.

I agree on the paddle shifters. I prefer the authoritative snap of the F80s. I also noticed an annoying soft spot at the top of the brake pedal. Does yours have that? I'm thinking mine was a specific issue with that car.

My commute is short, about 7 miles each way however I've driven the car for as long as 3 hours at a time and comfort is not an issue at all. The F80 seat is wider but that's about it. Also there is no big space for your left foot once you close the door because of the speaker but I got used to it and only remembered this fact as I'm writing this reply. Driving it on the stiffest suspension setting is something else of course, but who'd do that anyway for a stop and go traffic.
As for the break, you're correct. The 911s break feels softer than F80 but with no loss of breaking power at all. If anything that softness is the fix for how F80 was jerky and difficult to drive smoothly shifting between throttle and break if you had the same experience. Overall, break power and feel will become a positive aspect in Porsche after driving it for 1000 miles or so. When you change cars some differences in the beginning can be a bit annoying but after a while you can more objectively judge which is better, breaks in this situation is one of those.
I'm a guy who's easily satisfied but very rarely impressed, this Carrera S has managed to IMPRESS me many many times so far I can't stop talking about it to my friends. In short, the rear engine+less weight +NA+wider rear tires+PDK they all come together to WOW me everyday. Seriously everyday.
You'll not regret it.
My only gripe is the lack of cabin space (it's actually a challenge just to find a space for iPhone or such) but that's a tiny price you'll pay for the orgasmic corners you'll take.
Btw, I sold my leased M3 to Carmax to get out of the lease and avoid the end of lease penalties (road rash on wheels, broken front under facia,...] I was able to get my Porsche 5 months earlier than waiting on the lease.

[saeyedoc]

Yeah that E9x motor was ridiculous, even compared to the Porsche's. It couldn't put down the traction like the 911 can though. That small gas tank in the M drove me nuts though, not a good combo with the poor mileage it got. Didn't care about the $, but having to fill up every few days was brutal.

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by sameh

Then you must have loved E92 if you had one. As much as I'm loving my NA 3.8 and enjoy it every day my heart is still thinking about the E92 and I have a feeling if I ever get an unexpected bonus or income , I'll buy one and just keep it forever. I think if mine wasn't colors that I really didn't like, I think I'd have kept it however it was an E92 I got off the dealer lot on the spot so didn't really make it to my taste, yeah that's how much I fell in love with it, bought a black outside black inside car when I don't really like black cars ?). Not sure if that's like wanting to fuck your ex girlfriend one more time thing or is it for real?but I'm pretty sure if I drive one now I'd now in 2 minutes if I'll buy one forever or not.

I had an 08 E90 and 11.5 E92 comp. The engine was a gem. In particular, the intake noise over 6k rpm was to die for. The rest of the car was very good, but not spectacular. If I could pick 1 car as a long term keeper, it would probably be an E92 just for the engine / intake noise. Take it out and let if rip. Ah... the glory days of M car motors now we have to listen to farts and fake v8 noise through the speakers...

[AMS1988]

So I should definitely get into that C2S I have been eyeing for all these months now? Or should I really go for the GTS? I was having a hard time believing that the C2S was really that MUCH better than the F80 but you can’t all be wrong.

[uniqueMR]

Great write-up and info.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by AMS1988

So I should definitely get into that C2S I have been eyeing for all these months now? Or should I really go for the GTS? I was having a hard time believing that the C2S was really that MUCH better than the F80 but you can’t all be wrong.

Seems like a GTS comes with stuff you'd want to option in a C2S anyway, so might as well get GTS?

If you don't think the C2S is that much better than F80, just stop right there and stick with the F80 for now. You can always go to 911 later and the urge to upgrade never really goes away either, even after you get a 911

[AMS1988]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Seems like a GTS comes with stuff you'd want to option in a C2S anyway, so might as well get GTS?

If you don't think the C2S is that much better than F80, just stop right there and stick with the F80 for now. You can always go to 911 later and the urge to upgrade never really goes away either, even after you get a 911

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have never driven a Porsche before but I’m thinking that’s the only logical upgrade from the F80. I just feel like the F80 has a lotttt to offer for the price point. Maybe I need to test drive a C2S to really see the difference OR just wait a few years for a .2 GTS. That thing is so sexy

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by AMS1988

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have never driven a Porsche before but I’m thinking that’s the only logical upgrade from the F80. I just feel like the F80 has a lotttt to offer for the price point. Maybe I need to test drive a C2S to really see the difference OR just wait a few years for a .2 GTS. That thing is so sexy

Personally, I think you should get a clean 997 of some sort instead of 991.1

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by MojorisinM3

I had an 08 E90 and 11.5 E92 comp. The engine was a gem. In particular, the intake noise over 6k rpm was to die for. The rest of the car was very good, but not spectacular. If I could pick 1 car as a long term keeper, it would probably be an E92 just for the engine / intake noise. Take it out and let if rip. Ah... the glory days of M car motors now we have to listen to farts and fake v8 noise through the speakers...

I had an E36 and E46 m3, those old glory days the engine sounded pretty raspy and like tin cans. You tube E46 stock exhaust. I remember people making fun of it even back then.

Very few M cars really sounded good at all, at least compared to AMG, and most every other muscle car. I had the 6.2 v8 c63 and that engine really put everything else to shame. Even the S63 X5m v8 is a weak sounding engine.

It’s all relative, but for me m division engines have the worst sounds.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I had an E36 and E46 m3, those old glory days the engine sounded pretty raspy and like tin cans. You tube E46 stock exhaust. I remember people making fun of it even back then.

Very few M cars really sounded good at all, at least compared to AMG, and most every other muscle car. I had the 6.2 v8 c63 and that engine really put everything else to shame. Even the S63 X5m v8 is a weak sounding engine.

It’s all relative, but for me m division engines have the worst sounds.

This is so often under-appreciated - the e9x was the rare exception to a long string of crappy sounding (or very quiet) M engines.

I owned an e39 m5 and have driven e46, e36, been around e30 m3s, etc....the only M engines that truly sounded great stock were (to me) the e28 m5 and e39 m5 and e9x. The e39 and e9x was too quiet stock; the great sounding engines/exhausts only came with muffler modification.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

This is so often under-appreciated - the e9x was the rare exception to a long string of crappy sounding (or very quiet) M engines.

I owned an e39 m5 and have driven e46, e36, been around e30 m3s, etc....the only M engines that truly sounded great stock were (to me) the e28 m5 and e39 m5 and e9x. The e39 and e9x was too quiet stock; the great sounding engines/exhausts only came with muffler modification.

I6 i think is just hard to make sound good.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I6 i think is just hard to make sound good.

M2 sounds better still not great.

BMW v8 s sounds pretty weak compared to its contemporaries as well.

For me the sound is a low priority, I rank the f80 one of the best cars I’ve owned, flaws and all.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

M2 sounds better still not great.

BMW v8 s sounds pretty weak compared to its contemporaries as well.

For me the sound is a low priority, I rank the f80 one of the best cars I’ve owned, flaws and all.

I don't pass on cars based on sound, but I can see how it matters a lot for people who are street only. It's the main thing you can enjoy all the time without risking going to jail

AMG sounds great (maybe because they took the mentality of American Muscle?) and I love how modded 6.2L c63 sounds like artillery fire

One factor that is often overlooked in these sound discussions is the day to day trade off. I think my modded 6TT sounds better than 991 generation, but man, the drone of my car can get a bit brutal on long highway drives. There's always a trade off!

[///M Ryder]

Very good write up SAMEH. Pcars are definitely more than a daily commute. As a good friend of mine likes to say "it's a daily adventure". Your observations for the most part would hold true for most of the cars. And your HP analogy was spot on. The one area I too would highlight is the steering feel of Pcars. The steering wheels are not as thick but that's by design. The feedback the car gives is nothing short of incredible. Continue to enjoy and rack up smiles not miles........Phil

[Habber]

Do people ever consider getting a base entry level 911 or is that the wrong way to go (meaning you either go in with all the nannies or don't go at all)?

Excellent write up!!

[sameh]

Originally Posted by ///M Ryder

Very good write up SAMEH. Pcars are definitely more than a daily commute. As a good friend of mine likes to say "it's a daily adventure". Your observations for the most part would hold true for most of the cars. And your HP analogy was spot on. The one area I too would highlight is the steering feel of Pcars. The steering wheels are not as thick but that's by design. The feedback the car gives is nothing short of incredible. Continue to enjoy and rack up smiles not miles........Phil

Originally Posted by ///M Ryder

Very good write up SAMEH. Pcars are definitely more than a daily commute. As a good friend of mine likes to say "it's a daily adventure". Your observations for the most part would hold true for most of the cars. And your HP analogy was spot on. The one area I too would highlight is the steering feel of Pcars. The steering wheels are not as thick but that's by design. The feedback the car gives is nothing short of incredible. Continue to enjoy and rack up smiles not miles........Phil

So I feel like I should have updated my post since I wrote it initially. You know how changing from one car to another after years you incorrectly judge certain things in the new car just because it doesn't feel the same as the old. Steering in my C2S is one of those. I think I didn't express my opinion as I should.
Before my current Porsche I never driven a rear engine car before, the front end felt so light like a shopping cart with all the weight on the back wheels but front is light and playful, it took me about 2 months to completely get used to that and now I can feel the steering much better and yes it's amazing. It wasn't the steering feel it was more the significantly lighter front end weight that I was feeling.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by Habber

Do people ever consider getting a base entry level 911 or is that the wrong way to go (meaning you either go in with all the nannies or don't go at all)?

Excellent write up!!

With the torque and HP of the current base engine, many who would scoff at a base Carrera in prior iterations are buying them now. Not sure what you mean about the nannies, they all come standard.

[Rambler]

The new base with the 3.0 turbo is a much better proposition than in prior generations since the HP and performance level is much closer to the S. Some actually prefer the smaller turbos in the base vs. the S or GTS since there is less perceived turbo lag and a more linear feeling. However, there are certain items that cannot be optioned with the base (unless you opt for the new 911T), including rear axle steering and PTV/LSD. Also, the base comes with smaller brakes. So for some, the unavailability of these options is a deal breaker but overall, the base is a great step-in to the 911 range. Great thing about the new T is that you can also option in sport bucket seats but once you add in all the goodies, you start approaching or exceeding the S price. But if you can spec a 911T with sport buckets and PTV/LSD for close to $115k, that, imo, is the best current 911 offering outside the GT3. Especially since I believe sport buckets cannot be optioned on any other non-GT variants (at least in the US).

Edit: PTV is actually standard on the T so you could definitely do a nice spec for under $115k (before negotiating any possible discounts). I'd want Miami blue though which would put it right around $115k!