2018 BMW M4 CS vs. 2018 Porsche 911 GTS - Head 2 Head Ep. 95(Video)

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That price does not make sense for a base M4CS given the international context. That would mean Canada is the most expensive market for the CS relative to the base and CP M4 by a significant margin.

Not true. M4 CS is €117,900 in Europe or around $139,000. That includes taxes but not a $10,000 gas guzzler penalty. The base one is around €80,000.
Cannot imagine the CS here at less than $110,000 (without CCB).

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That price does not make sense for a base M4CS given the international context. That would mean Canada is the most expensive market for the CS relative to the base and CP M4 by a significant margin.

The jahre 30 was $105k and GTS was $160k. . I don't think $120k CAN is that far fetched.

Sorry I'm talking Canadian prices here.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Not true. M4 CS is €117,900 in Europe or around $139,000. That includes taxes but not a $10,000 gas guzzler penalty. The base one is around €80,000.
Cannot imagine the CS here at less than $110,000 (without CCB).

We've had this debate over and over. Exchange rate is irrelevent when establishing local market pricing.

Canadiang pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=39

US pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=69

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

We've had this debate over and over. Exchange rate is irrelevent when establishing local market pricing.

Canadiang pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=39

US pricing analysis:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=69

I hope you are right and it will definitely be cheaper here but less than $110,000 here vs $139,000+ ($149,000 with all taxes included) there would be a larger gap than ever.
Thanks for the links!
Keeping my fingers crossed.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

I hope you are right and it will definitely be cheaper here but less than $110,000 here vs $139,000+ ($149,000 with all taxes included) there would be a larger gap than ever.
Keeping my fingers crossed.

The gap is the same in relative terms.

It is also important to note that the M4CS is not a special limited and exclusive edition model like the M4GTS. It does not have that much unique parts.

I hope I am right too. If the price is ridculous, I'll be getting a well optioned CP instead, which means I have waited all this time in vain (I had originally planned to swap my 2015 M4 this past summer).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Being a relatively long time M owner myself (8 years?), it think BMW M cars are losing because they’re pricing themselves out of the equation. They don’t provide as good an experience or the performance in this realm yet continue to raise their pricing. I also think Porsche holds its cars back a lot too but they’ve upped the ante across the whole range. In my eyes, Porsche and Mclaren are really making the best performance cars available, and on top of that you can daily drive them too.

I cannot really agree with you. At least here in Canada, BMW ///M cars are very competively priced. The base price of my 2015 M4 was almost the same as the base price of my 2001 E46 M3 with much more standard features. Considering inflation, it means it actually went down in price. Further, comparing to other offerings in the same market category (RS5, C63, ATS-V), it is priced very competitively for the performance it offers.

I agree that Porsche have significantly upped the performance ante. However, so did their prices. A 911 is not in the same price realm as the M4 here in Canada.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The gap is the same in relative terms.

It is also important to note that the M4CS is not a special limited and exclusive edition model like the GTS. It does not have that much unique parts.

I hope I am right too. If the price is ridculous, I'll be getting a well optioned CP instead, which means I have waited all this time in vain (I had originally planned to swap my 2015 M4 this past summer).

At $110,000 yes. At less than $100,000 no (would be a larger gap than usual).
That is why I see the CS around $110,000 and not at $95,000 to $100,000 as several people have suggested.

[elias]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I cannot really agree with you. At least here in Canada, BMW ///M cars are very competively priced. The base price of my 2015 M4 was almost the same as the base price of my 2001 E46 M3 with much more standard features. Considering inflation, it means it actually went down in price. Further, comparing to other offerings in the same market category (RS5, C63, ATS-V), it is priced very competitively for the performance it offers.

I agree that Porsche have significantly upped the performance ante. However, so did their prices. A 911 is not in the same price realm as the M4 here in Canada.

Its not in the same price point here in the States either, we all know this but BMW
needs to keep upping their game to keep closing the gap on the 911 regardless.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by elias

[/B]

Its not in the same price point here in the States either, we all know this but BMW
needs to keep upping their game to keep closing the gap on the 911 regardless.

As much as I would like them to, why would they need to ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

At $110,000 yes. At less than $100,000 no (would be a larger gap than usual).
That is why I see the CS around $110,000 and not at $95,000 to $100,000 as several people have suggested.

Base M4 @ 67,700USD / 78,300Eur = 86%
Equivalently spec'ed DCT M4 CP @ 79,890USD / 97,010Eur = 82%

M4CS @ 96,000USD / 116,900Eur = 82%
M4CS @ 100,000USD / 116,900Eur = 86%
M4CS @ 110,000USD / 116,900Eur = 94%

[mafoofan]

I'll be surprised if the CS comes in much over $100k. I think the smart estimate is $95-105K. This reflects the midpoint between ZCP and GTS pricing, is in proportion to the Euro pricing scheme, and is more in-line with the real competition (loaded C63S, basic 911S, etc.).

Direct Euro price conversion is just silly.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by elias

[/B]

Its not in the same price point here in the States either, we all know this but BMW
needs to keep upping their game to keep closing the gap on the 911 regardless.

I don’t think they’ve closed the gap though. Now that the 911 went to forced induction the gap has grown significantly. Clearly evident in the comparisons with the CS and M4 GTS where they don’t perform all that well against the Carrera S or GTS models let alone the higher end cars.
At the same time, BMW simply doesn’t play on that realm or performance or handling and rightfully so they haven’t fared well with the M4 GTS against the field. They just need to make a good M3 or M4 for 70k and worry about the competition there which is very close between those cars.

[mafoofan]

People keep talking about how BMW has priced the M3/M4 out of the market. I really doubt that. I bet if you were to compare the change in pricing versus other competitive and semi-competitive cars since the E46 generation, one would find that the M3/4 is in line. Nothing costs what it used to in 1999.

That's a separate argument from whether the character of M cars has changed. Though, a lot of the criticism of the F80/F82's rear traction limitations came up in contemporary reviews of the E46, if I recall. Bottom line--the M3 has never been a pure sports car.

[e92_m3]

I'm pretty confident if the M4 GTS was compared to the 911 GTS, the 911 GTS would still win that comparison. So why even bother comparing the less racier M4 CS to it? Tbh, it's like comparing the raciest M4, the M4 GTS to one of Porche's raciest p-car, the GT3. Just wondering what were they smoking when they decided to compare the M4 CS to the 911 GTS.

The M4 CS would "probably" be better off when compared to a Carrera S. In the end, I still think the Carrera S will still win that comparison...

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by e92_m3

I'm pretty confident if the M4 GTS was compared to the 911 GTS, the 911 GTS would still win that comparison. So why even bother comparing the less racier M4 CS to it? Tbh, it's like comparing the raciest M4, the M4 GTS to one of Porche's raciest p-car, the GT3. Just wondering what were they smoking when they decided to compare the M4 CS to the 911 GTS.

The M4 CS would "probably" be better off when compared to a Carrera S. In the end, I still think the Carrera S will still win that comparison...

Given the Carrera S has been rated higher (sport auto rated it higher and it ranked higher as a driver’s car for motortrend) than the M4 GTS, I say with high confidence that is easily the case.

[minn19]

Anybody have any idea when they are actually going to release the price of the CSs? And why the long wait?

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The gap is the same in relative terms.

It is also important to note that the M4CS is not a special limited and exclusive edition model like the GTS. It does not have that much unique parts.

I hope I am right too. If the price is ridculous, I'll be getting a well optioned CP instead, which means I have waited all this time in vain (I had originally planned to swap my 2015 M4 this past summer).

I don't know the 991 model numbers, but the 2010, 2011 and 2012 GTS production numbers were pretty dang high and not exactly what one would call exclusive.

In 2011, looks like GTS C2s and Cab C2s outnumber base Carrera C2s and cab C2s by nearly 3 to 1 so perhaps the base model is the exclusive one in terms of production numbers.

[mcc3456]

Not even comparable. The M4 CS is the best of the F82 model range, but the 911 GTS is easily head and shoulders above the M4 CS. Reminds of when I chose a 911 Carrera 2 over an M5 because the Porsche was faster, better handling, more confidence inspiring, more luxurious, better riding, and more surprisingly more civilized. There is no substitute...except for a McLaren or Ferrari!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

I don't know the 991 model numbers, but the 2010, 2011 and 2012 GTS production numbers were pretty dang high and not exactly what one would call exclusive.

In 2011, looks like GTS C2s and Cab C2s outnumber base Carrera C2s and cab C2s by nearly 3 to 1 so perhaps the base model is the exclusive one in terms of production numbers.

Given the context of the thread, I realize I should have been more specific. I was referring to the M4 GTS.

I corrected my post for clarity

[M3Fury]

Regardless of the validity of comparison...I still found the video worthwhile for the entertainment value. And to be contrarian, I would find value in comparing the 911GTS to a my F80 ZCP because these two cars would be at the top of my list for value. i.e. I personally would want to try and measure the performance advantages of the GTS vs the overall daily performance/practicality of the F80 albeit different price points for sure. No single review can capture the variety of value attributes that are unique to any of us, but the comparison can still be a valid input to our decision making.

[stylinexpat]

The Porsche GTS is probably the best car on the market of which can be used on the track and street. My dream daily driver

[KevinM]

Not surprising. The GTS is probably the best overall sports car on the market. And it is available with a MT, so that would be that for me.

But...come on...for most of us, as a DD, the F8X is the real deal if we want to have a bit of fun occasionally but want to blend in the rest of the time. I have no doubt the GTS is better on a track and on an alpine pass. But for my 20 mile round trip to and back from work on city roads, for me the M3 (and my M5 before it) is perfect. Not too much attention, plenty of room for passengers, etc.

I'll probably still buy a Porsche 911 in the future, but it will not serve the same purpose as my M3 or M5. More like my M coupe, but I will not sell that...damn.