S5 Sportback vs. '16 S6 vs. F80

[JoeFromPA]

Hi all,

Had a date night with my wife saturday and had a glorious few hours to test drive. Decided to spend some time on Audi, as I'm convinced my next vehicle will be AWD (I can provide a rationale for those so inclined, but I'll leave it at that for now).

This post is intended to be about comparing the things I liked vs. did not like between these vehicles and then hopping back into mine. This is not about drag racing, track capability, or anything other than - what do you like/not like when you hop in and drive each car around some local and local back roads.

..........

S5 Sportback:

Audi deserves huge credit for the design of this car. To me, it's a beautifully executed 4-door hatchback. I'm a big fan of the A7, too, but many 4-door hatches in this coupe-like style have at least one section which is too fat, too bulbous, or otherwise unpleasant. I get none of that in the A5/S5.

Inside the car is simply a wonderfully executed modern design theme. I think the combination of virtual cockpit + tacked on iPad is a miss - the virtual cockpit alone is awesome, two giant screens is not and there is glare from electronic screens all the time (perhaps this is manageable with alot of playing, I couldn't discover quickly how to get more truly black screen on the dash screen).

The exterior view is semi-compromised, but besides that it has an excellent view of the road and great greenhouse feel. Seating position is excellent. Seats themselves are also excellent - took me and my wife about 15 seconds to find a position that remained perfect. I like these seats more than the F80 from an "immediate comfort" standpoint. I don't think they are desired for track use as much.

Driving the S5

I look at driving as engine, transmission, differentials, steering, brakes, suspension, sound, and overall feel/driving experience.

For this, the Audi was a missed bag.

Let me start at steering. It's not so much awful as just not there. Overly light, no sensation of feel. Truly disappointing - I could get past almost anything else, but I left feeling I couldn't get past the steering.

Engine: Excellent. Responsive, excellent mid-range, a bit disappointing at the top-end but the trans likes to keep it in the middle. Sounds good - not great - but definitely better stock than the f8x. No real soft spots down low either.

Transmission: Good, not great. I've driven this 8-speed auto in BMWs and loved it, yet it seemed softer and more delayed in the S5. I was in dynamic mode, which I believe is the most aggressive, but this might be a setting. It was still quite good. The lack of a manual is, of course, soul crushing.

Brakes: Spot on. Right feel, right modulation, right pressure build.

Suspension: Very good handling and feel for a ~3850-3900 pound. Still a tad busy on rough roads, but never harsh at all. A fine example of what made german sedans famous for their suspensions.

Diffs: Seamless/invisible, simply excellent traction in all conditions and smooth transfer of power during application in corners. Not enough experience here for a real review and this was at 7/10ths on public roads.

Overall feel/driving experience: Very good, but a miss for me. So close. The steering was too absent, the trans a smidge delayed, the suspension a tad imperfect.

That being said, it's a testament to Audi that I would still keep this car on my radar because of it's excellent overall package and offering. BMW has had years where they missed on steering (look at early e46s, which are now known for their steering) and they corrected it later on.

...............

2016 S6, Sport Package, 24k miles

This is a helluva car just to sit in. The design is going to age very well and there is a world of difference in the overall feel when you go from a car built on a ~$35-40k base platform to a car built on a ~$50k+ base platform as well as an additional ~600 pounds of materials. This is a ~$75-80k car that feels like a $100k car to sit in both in terms of luxury, solidness, and some sport.

I love the A6 platform in terms of look inside and out, so take that with an appropriate grain of salt. I won't go into minute detail on the interior/exterior.

Driving the S6

As above, I look at driving as engine, transmission, differentials, steering, brakes, suspension, sound, and overall feel/driving experience.

Damn the S6 is good. Yes, it's 4400 pounds. Yes it's not a car you track. And yes, you probably don't want to own this car out of warranty.

But it drives cohesively. The engine is fantastic - it sounds amazing and brings the shove. There is a reason Audi is using this engine in many applications - it's fantastic. I see no shortcomings here.

The transmission is Audi's DSG/Dual Clutch and it's excellent. Snap shifts, downshifts with nice burbles and crackles coming to a stop. Short of a manual trans, this is as good as it gets for a road-going trans.

Steering - I drove this car after the S5 and expected the steering to be as bad as the S5. Imagine my surprise when I found the S6 to have quite good steering. Reasonable heft, some response to road conditions/speed/g forces. It's not neutered - it was good for a sedan like this.

Brakes - Need more time but found them to be very good. I don't want to commit more than this without more time behind the wheel.

Suspension: This is an adaptable air suspension and thus really needs time but I drove this on roads that upset the s5's chassis/suspension and the S6 just soaked it up. Again, excellent germanic feel and road manners. I took some long sweepers but what really impressed me was when I threw it into a hard right turn at a decent speed and snapped the steering. I expected howling tires, a bit of slide, dramatic weight shift. But it just pivoted like a far lighter car with zero drama. It's still a hefty pig, but it's a hefty pig with some seriously good suspension tuning.

Overall driving experience: If I wanted a more luxurious ride, if I wanted an autobahn bomber with some chops, I think this is where I'd go. I'm not ready to make that commitment. But the S6 was pretty awesome to drive and experience.

........................

Getting back into the f80: I love the manual trans in this car, the chassis, the light and nimble feel, the pull of the S55. The sound now grates on me sometimes (I have not coded off ASD). But the overall driving experience is still the benchmark.

What I left saying to myself was: If I could find an f80-like driving experience that was a bit more serene on the highway and a better sounding engine, with AWD (again, will explain why elsewhere), I'd go for it. Perhaps the next m3

Hope you liked the review!

[minn19]

I drove an S5 sportback and I left very impressed with it as a comfortable/fast DD. I loved the interior, and build quality. The massaging front seats were really cool and it is a hell of a package for 65k. I don't think it was/is an F8X competitor, but I really liked the car for family hauler/really really nice DD.

Nice write up though, thanks.

[Habber]

First of all, props to you for going test driving on your "date night".

Audi, for the most part have kinda lost a bit of their design creativity imo over the past few years. I find their cars are all looking quite similar and don't have the aggressive lines they once had (coming from former Audi boy here with over 4 S4's).

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by minn19

I drove an S5 sportback and I left very impressed with it as a comfortable/fast DD. I loved the interior, and build quality. The massaging front seats were really cool and it is a hell of a package for 65k. I don't think it was/is an F8X competitor, but I really liked the car for family hauler/really really nice DD.

Nice write up though, thanks.

Completely fair. I'm keeping my eye out for an f80 replacement one day and for me that includes:

1. Similar size
2. Great driving dynamics but can move away from track ready (I'm just not making it to the track)
3. AWD (I've realized 400+ hp in a lightweight package in a climate where over 8 months a year is either cold or wet, according to online climate tracking, is not the right place for RWD)
4. A bit quieter/smoother/more luxurious
5. Ideally a great MT still

Naturally Audi fits into that line of thinking except for#5. But I don't think I've found the right fit yet.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Habber

First of all, props to you for going test driving on your "date night".

Thanks. Our date night started with a "discussion" about having a 3rd child. Set the tone nicely....../sarcasm

Then a walk through an overly expensive store selling things no one needs, but which was relaxing at least.

90 minutes of test driving with a good dealer/salesperson

Then picked up a new Samsung flat screen (awesome end-of-year deal on a 43" model for $329 - UHD, 4k, etc.) (slid into the backseat of the f80 just sitting across the seats)

Then sushi dinner together....and more talk about said 3rd child....

....

So basically a pretty nice date night for a couple married 12 years

[quattr0]

Thank you so much for this write up man. Much appreciated.

I used to own Audi and left because of steering feel. After more than 10 years of BMW, including an F82 of 2 years, I might go back for DD next as BMW seems to start following numb steering department. It's sad. That's why I'm holding on to my n54 even though on the luxury side it's not quite there but on how the car feel as a daily driver is much better than any newer BMW, steering wise.

I'm glad to hear the S6 steering is better. S5 Sportback does look better from outside tho.

Great to have choices...

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by quattr0

Thank you so much for this write up man. Much appreciated.

I used to own Audi and left because of steering feel. After more than 10 years of BMW, including an F82 of 2 years, I might go back for DD next as BMW seems to start following numb steering department. It's sad. That's why I'm holding on to my n54 even though on the luxury side it's not quite there but on how the car feel as a daily driver is much better than any newer BMW, steering wise.

I'm glad to hear the S6 steering is better. S5 Sportback does look better from outside tho.

Great to have choices...

My pleasure man - it's been so long since I done this. Both test drives and wrote up a brief review. I love doing this and just can't find the time anymore.

[Vectors2final]

Looks are subjective, but I just can't shake the awkward looks of the S5 Sportback. Maybe it'll grow on me.

It'll be a damn shame when they bring the RS5 Sportback, but not the RS4.


I drove the B9 S4 back in June, and it was a really nice car.

[blschaefer1]

I just picked up a ‘17 S6 a few weeks ago. It is going to serve as my daily driver in the coming months. I love the thing. It is truly one of those split personality cars.

Comfy cruiser, it gets 28mpg on the freeway, then engage dynamic mode and the chassis, steering tightens, transmission wakes up, and engine gets uncorked. The V8 makes wonderful authentic sounds, has virtually no lag, and pulls hard. The interior is very well executed and is aging very gracefully for a car that was first introduced in 2012.

Overall build quality is extremely high. Technology quite good too - adaptive cruise with stop and go works wonderfully.

Wish we had an Autobahn, this thing would be in it's element.

It’s certainly no track animal but for street use, its simply a great setup.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

I just picked up a ‘17 S6 a few weeks ago. It is going to serve as my daily driver in the coming months. I love the thing. It is truly one of those split personality cars.

Comfy cruiser, it gets 28mpg on the freeway, then engage dynamic mode and the chassis, steering tightens, transmission wakes up, and engine gets uncorked. The V8 makes wonderful authentic sounds, has virtually no lag, and pulls hard. The interior is very well executed and is aging very gracefully for a car that was first introduced in 2012.

Overall build quality is extremely high. Technology quite good too - adaptive cruise with stop and go works wonderfully.

Wish we had an Autobahn, this thing would be in it's element.

It’s certainly no track animal but for street use, its simply a great setup.

Nice - curious what you picked up the '17 S6 for in terms of discount/price reduction from MSRP? CPO or brand new discounted?

For what it's worth, the '16 I was looking at with 25k miles is about $25k off MSRP - or about 67% residual at the ~2 year old mark.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Nice - curious what you picked up the '17 S6 for in terms of discount/price reduction from MSRP? CPO or brand new discounted?

For what it's worth, the '16 I was looking at with 25k miles is about $25k off MSRP - or about 67% residual at the ~2 year old mark.

I got a brand new unit. There are some very aggressive year end marketing incentives on leftover '17's right now. I decided to lease as the money factor was basically zero (free money), but negotiated hard with several dealers on cap cost going in. Final deal was $63k on a $79k MSRP, right about 20% discount. I got Audicare thrown in too, all maintenance covered for four years (should I keep the car that long).

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

I got a brand new unit. There are some very aggressive year end marketing incentives on leftover '17's right now. I decided to lease as the money factor was basically zero (free money), but negotiated hard with several dealers on cap cost going in. Final deal was $63k on a $79k MSRP, right about 20% discount. I got Audicare thrown in too, all maintenance covered for four years (should I keep the car that long).

Jeezzz....

I believe the residual on that car is like $41k after 3/36, so you'd be looking at around $611/month not including taxes/fees and any MF impact with that deal. I'll just assume a bit north of $700/month all-in. Including maintenance, that's pretty awesome.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Jeezzz....

I believe the residual on that car is like $41k after 3/36, so you'd be looking at around $611/month not including taxes/fees and any MF impact with that deal. I'll just assume a bit north of $700/month all-in. Including maintenance, that's pretty awesome.

Pretty darn close. Mid $700's with CA tax. Only DMV fees as drive offs. Very happy with my deal.

[cotmfk]

If the RS5 sportback comes, that should be closer to the F80 in terms of performance.

If that is above what you want to spend, the S5 sportback should be seeing good discounts at that point.

Either way, sounds like you should wait, IMO.

[hellrotm]

Very intrigued by the upcoming RS5 Sportback.

[RickFLM4]

Have you looked at a new 550?

[GERMAN M3]

Thanks for the write up Joel. Just purchased a 2018 A5 Premium Plus coupe for my wife, and I must say that Audi did a great job. They definitely are heading in the right direction.
The virtual cockpit is amazing, and the car itself is a blast to drive. Has pretty good pickup for a 2.0T. Downfall for me is the transmission. No manual = no sale for me. However, it is her car and she is loving it. Again, thanks for posting.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Have you looked at a new 550?

No, not yet. Had a 530i loaner for ~100 miles and while an amazing vehicle, it is and felt too large for my tastes.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

No, not yet. Had a 530i loaner for ~100 miles and while an amazing vehicle, it is and felt too large for my tastes.

Is it larger than the S6?

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Have you looked at a new 550?

I saw one in person at the port when I went to see my car at the port.. Love the looks!

Plus it's outgoing M5 fast, which a lot of people didn't see coming.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Is it larger than the S6?

No, and it's only a few inches longer than a Honda Accord (by comparison).

But I will say the S6 drove more like my old e39 than the new 5-series. It felt bulky and muscular yet wrapped around you somehow, whereas the new 5-series (again in 530i trim) drove expansively. Hopefully that makes sense - some cars drive larger or smaller. In this case, the s6 drove smaller than it is.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

No, and it's only a few inches longer than a Honda Accord (by comparison).

But I will say the S6 drove more like my old e39 than the new 5-series. It felt bulky and muscular yet wrapped around you somehow, whereas the new 5-series (again in 530i trim) drove expansively. Hopefully that makes sense - some cars drive larger or smaller. In this case, the s6 drove smaller than it is.

I drove an S6 shortly after they were introduced. Only time I went 125 on a test drive. I think it is a really nice car. Really nice. But it is heavy and I wasn't sure I felt it was a sports sedan, other than fast acceleration in a straight line. (A 20% discount may have influenced my opinion.). I had an S4 at the time and ended up going with the M4 after also considering the RS5.

The reason I ask about the 550 is I was wondering if it might be in between the S6 and M4 in terms of overall driving experience. My lease is up in about 7 mos. and I'm all over the board with thinking of what's next. Buying out the M4 is possible but was also thinking about S6 and 550 (among other things). M4 seems like a lot more fun but an S6 or 550 may fit my highway driving (straight line, level ground in FL) needs pretty well. But concerned about going back to something bigger and getting too bored too quickly.