S5 Sportback vs. '16 S6 vs. F80

[JoeFromPA]

I'm going to focus on a ~2 year old model given the historical depreciation on things like an S6/550xi. ~2 years old seems to be the sweet spot for maximum depreciation while still staying recent/relevant on tech, warranty, low likehood of repair, etc.

Here's my recent benchmarking:
A 2016 CPO S6 with 25k miles will go for ~65% of MSRP
A 2010 S6 with 50k miles will go for 33% of it's MSRP

I.e. An S6 will lose 35% of it's MSRP-value within 1.5-2 years and then another 30-32% of MSRP-value over 6 years after that

Same thing now for a 550i.....

A 2015 CPO BMW 550xi with 30k miles will go for $45k - about 56% of MSRP
Same thing in 2011-2012 model with 50k miles will go for $30k - about 37% of MSRP

Therefore, a BMW 550i will lose about 45% of it's value within the first 3 years, and then about 19% of it's value over the next 3-4 years.

.............

To put this another way, buy a 2 year old CPO 550xi or S6 and own it for 3 years after that, you'll pay about 6-8% depreciation per year - about $4800-$6400 per year in out of pocket depreciation.

Buy it brand-new and own it for 3 years, you'll pay about 13-15% depreciation per year - about $10,400-$12,000 per year in out of pocket depreciation.

For an extra $6k a year in out of pocket depreciation expense, I could own a 2 year old S6/550xi AND a nice pre-owned 911 (i.e. 2012 991.1).

[two+2]

Op, great reviews. Just curious if the S6 was a 2018 model? I was in the same dilemma a year ago.

I will also have you know the F80 fits a 3rd child seat just fine.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

I got a brand new unit. There are some very aggressive year end marketing incentives on leftover '17's right now. I decided to lease as the money factor was basically zero (free money), but negotiated hard with several dealers on cap cost going in. Final deal was $63k on a $79k MSRP, right about 20% discount. I got Audicare thrown in too, all maintenance covered for four years (should I keep the car that long).

Here's another leftover 2017 if anyone is looking for one... in yellow.

http://www.audicoralsprings.com/new/...5595c51bc4.htm

[damnitBobby]

Nice review.

I got my first Audi a few months ago (2018 SQ5). So far really like everything about it except a throttle lag issue - not to be confused with turbo lag. Just seems like the throttle is lazy when not in dynamic mode. I think it’s a fuel efficiency thing. I’ve never had a problem with glare on either the virtual cockpit or the tablet screen. Overall my favorite thing about the car is the air suspension. It’s ability to change ride height and different damper settings is just awesome.

This is my first crossover and I’m liking the practicality. Although some days I do miss a traditional sports sedan. I’m thinking of getting a LCI C63 sedan once it releases.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Completely fair. I'm keeping my eye out for an f80 replacement one day and for me that includes:

1. Similar size
2. Great driving dynamics but can move away from track ready (I'm just not making it to the track)
3. AWD (I've realized 400+ hp in a lightweight package in a climate where over 8 months a year is either cold or wet, according to online climate tracking, is not the right place for RWD)
4. A bit quieter/smoother/more luxurious
5. Ideally a great MT still

Naturally Audi fits into that line of thinking except for#5. But I don't think I've found the right fit yet.

Thanks for the review. Regarding the above, are there any AWD cars that still offer a MT?

No question that a 2-3 year old car is the sweet spot for a purchase in terms of depreciation if you don't care about building the spec, and the car hasn't had major upgrades in the interim (or if you don't care about the "upgrades"). Sounds like the S6 fits the bill for you there. Setting aside the want for MT (I can't believe I just typed that) if you decided on a new car and want a car as big as the S6, I agree that the M550 xDrive is worth a look, but then I'm not sure I could resist the new M5 at that point.

As these turbo engines continue their never ending increases in power and torque, I agree with you about rear-biased AWD (like the F90 M5). And hell, I live in Tucson. Sometimes I even wish my F80 had MxDrive...

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Thanks for the review. Regarding the above, are there any AWD cars that still offer a MT?
Setting aside the want for MT (I can't believe I just typed that) if you decided on a new car and want a car as big as the S6, I agree that the M550 xDrive is worth a look, but then I'm not sure I could resist the new M5 at that point.

As these turbo engines continue their never ending increases in power and torque, I agree with you about rear-biased AWD (like the F90 M5). And hell, I live in Tucson. Sometimes I even wish my F80 had MxDrive...

Imagine driving your f8x 8 months a year on roads below 50 degrees fahrenheit, or wet, or snow/slush covered - or a combination thereof. I looked at average temps in my area + average precipitation days in the months where it's >50 degrees and went "holy crap - 8 months a year I've got seriously compromised traction for a front engine, RWD highpowered sedan"

....

In terms of AWD vehicles with MT that are somewhere relevant to this class of vehicle, here's what I have:

1. 340xi drive
2. VW Golf R

...

Think that's it.

Have to admit, I was really pleasantly impressed by the S6 DSG in dynamic mode (only mode I drove it in). Shifts were lightning fasts, downshifts were frequent and smooth and made simply excellent yet subdued sounds that were not from the speakers but actually from the exhaust of the car.

Damn I'm going to have to go drive an f10 550xi again now as I'm realizing how much I enjoyed the S6....

[quattr0]

Not quite in the same level but Audi A4 does offer manual and AWD. I didn't know that until reading bmwblog in regards to the next 3 series and its competition.

[NHman]

OP, nice review of both the S5 SB and S6. I had a 2016 M4 ZCP and 2015 JGC Summit but decided to simply my life. Meaning I sold both vehicles and purchased the B9 (current model) S4. I know it is not meant to directly compete with the M3/M4. I wanted a capable DD that was fun to drive but somewhat blended in with other vehicles (as I use it for business). Yes AWD was important to me as, like you, I live in the Northeast with the cold, snow and ice. After 3500 miles, so far I am enjoying it but...I will be test driving the RS5 when it arrives in the states. If it offers a significant improvement in the overall performance, I will upgrade to the RS5 SB.

If you test drive the S4/S5 again, be sure to put the transmission in S-mode. Otherwise the throttle response is muted with programming focused on fuel economy. Did the test car have the Sport Package? Key component is the Sport Differential. There is a noticeable improvement in handling through a curve. I agree with your observation with the steering. While precise, it's very light and somewhat lifeless. Audi does have a Dynamic Steering option. How good is it? Not sure. My vehicle has the Sports package but not the Dynamic Steering.

The S6 is a great car but it was bigger than what I needed. Though I agree, it is a significant upgrade to the S4/S5. A 2-3 old model would be a good buy.

Best of luck will you car search.

[BimmerBoomer]

Generally I agree with the review, but I just wanted to add that with the Dynamic Steering option in Dynamic mode steering effort, linearity and response are very nicely calibrated. Just as good as the F80 for normal driving in my opinion, but I have to temper that opinion as I've had the opportunity to flog a couple of F80s and I'm still breaking the S5 Sportback in.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

Generally I agree with the review, but I just wanted to add that with the Dynamic Steering option in Dynamic mode steering effort, linearity and response are very nicely calibrated. Just as good as the F80 for normal driving in my opinion, but I have to temper that opinion as I've had the opportunity to flog a couple of F80s and I'm still breaking the S5 Sportback in.

I need to go confirm it had dynamic steering, though in the S5's setting steering said "dynamic" mode. Is that offered on models without dynamic steering?

If it was equipped with dynamic steering, I can't agree it's anywhere near the same as my f80. The f80 is "ok" steering wise and I freaking loved getting back into it after the s5

[RickFLM4]

Pretty sure dynamic mode and dynamic steering differ. I thought Audi's dynamic steering varies ratio with speed. A lot of people like it, but not sure I would think of it as "linear" since, by definition, it varies.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Nice review.

I got my first Audi a few months ago (2018 SQ5). So far really like everything about it except a throttle lag issue - not to be confused with turbo lag. Just seems like the throttle is lazy when not in dynamic mode. I think it’s a fuel efficiency thing. I’ve never had a problem with glare on either the virtual cockpit or the tablet screen. Overall my favorite thing about the car is the air suspension. It’s ability to change ride height and different damper settings is just awesome.

This is my first crossover and I’m liking the practicality. Although some days I do miss a traditional sports sedan. I’m thinking of getting a LCI C63 sedan once it releases.

When it's able to be tuned your going to love that car.

[BimmerBoomer]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Pretty sure dynamic mode and dynamic steering differ. I thought Audi's dynamic steering varies ratio with speed. A lot of people like it, but not sure I would think of it as "linear" since, by definition, it varies.

I know that on the surface that defeats the function, but for some reason it is more direct than the standard steering and has just the right weight for someone used to M cars.

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by NHman

The S6 is a great car but it was bigger than what I needed. Though I agree, it is a significant upgrade to the S4/S5. A 2-3 old model would be a good buy.

I actually might get an used S6 next ($40k+). Didn't know that you could put RS7 turbo into S6. I dropped the bimmer off for some maintenance at a buddy's place and saw the S6 there. He just installed the RS7 turbos for him. With APR stage 3, that thing makes 630 hp on 93 oct and 700 hp on race gas!

One could also do the same with 550i+Pure but interior/exterior wise I think the S6 wins.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by quattr0

I actually might get an used S6 next ($40k+). Didn't know that you could put RS7 turbo into S6. I dropped the bimmer off for some maintenance at a buddy's place and saw the S6 there. He just installed the RS7 turbos for him. With APR stage 3, that thing makes 630 hp on 93 oct and 700 hp on race gas!

One could also do the same with 550i+Pure but interior/exterior wise I think the S6 wins.

That sounds like a fun way to destroy a DSG.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I drove an S6 shortly after they were introduced. Only time I went 125 on a test drive. I think it is a really nice car. Really nice. But it is heavy and I wasn't sure I felt it was a sports sedan, other than fast acceleration in a straight line. (A 20% discount may have influenced my opinion.). I had an S4 at the time and ended up going with the M4 after also considering the RS5.

The reason I ask about the 550 is I was wondering if it might be in between the S6 and M4 in terms of overall driving experience. My lease is up in about 7 mos. and I'm all over the board with thinking of what's next. Buying out the M4 is possible but was also thinking about S6 and 550 (among other things). M4 seems like a lot more fun but an S6 or 550 may fit my highway driving (straight line, level ground in FL) needs pretty well. But concerned about going back to something bigger and getting too bored too quickly.

I feel like I can say with great certainty that the S6 is better to drive than the new M550i. It felt lighter, more athletic, and more responsive. The M550i was really nice and powerful, and that's about it. I was quite underwhelmed.

Would much rather have the S6, S7, Jag XF, or new E43 AMG. All of which I preferred the new 5.

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

That sounds like a fun way to destroy a DSG.

I thought so too but APR, I've heard, claims that the DSG could handle it. Will just have to see as the S6 owner is local to me.

Here's his build if anyone is interested... http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...6-Build-Thread

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by quattr0

I thought so too but APR, I've heard, claims that the DSG could handle it. Will just have to see as the S6 owner is local to me.

Here's his build if anyone is interested... http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...6-Build-Thread

APR is, to me, almost Dinan-esque in their reputation for making solid claims.

I wouldn't want to push that DSG too much either, just due to it's expense.

Nonetheless, 600whp on pump....mmmmmm......

Fastest car I've ever raced on the street was a stage 2 rs7. Made my f80 look like it was standing still (which it was, due to wheelspin)

[nicknaz]

We are taking used practical german cars right? I think E63 wagon with bench flash is the way to go. 700hp at the crank, AWD and great V8 sounds

Non powertrain electronics seems to be ??? though

(My brother had one for 4 yr, and the friend I got my 996 from bought it and modified it, so I have ~5 yr of hearing all about it)

As an aside, S5 sportback is ~39xx lb and 45xx lb. WOW.. that's a ton of pork

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

We are taking used practical german cars right? I think E63 wagon with bench flash is the way to go. 700hp at the crank, AWD and great V8 sounds

Non powertrain electronics seems to be ??? though

(My brother had one for 4 yr, and the friend I got my 996 from bought it and modified it, so I have ~5 yr of hearing all about it)

As an aside, S5 sportback is ~39xx lb and 45xx lb. WOW.. that's a ton of pork

Thanks - I'm actually going to go check out a Mercedes e63 wagon next. It fits into the description I need for a next DD.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Thanks - I'm actually going to go check out a Mercedes e63 wagon next. It fits into the description I need for a next DD.

It's an awesome car. I loved the iwc clock in the dash and masssge seats combined with the straightline acceleration

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It's an awesome car. I loved the iwc clock in the dash and masssge seats combined with the straightline acceleration

I’m sure these are great....but aren’t they $100k+ new? Kind of a different league from the others the OP mentioned.