First BMW M4 Crash

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

I think people are focussing on the age too much here. Some of the best divers in the world are his age or close. It is inexperience. That's all. I am in my early 40's and have a friend(same age as me) at work who just bought an IS-f and it's his first high powered performance car. He pretty much drove underpowered econoboxes and small SUVs his entire life. I have seen his confidence level increase fast and surpass his abilities and it got him into trouble. Again, age has nothing to do with it. At 20, age is a factor but there is too much emphasis being put on that rather than inexperience/driving ability. Jmo

Pretty sure any number of empircal or actuarial studies will tell you that young drivers tend to drive more recklessly than older drivers.

This is why insurance rates aren't set by anecdotal examples, ie: "Bob in claims knows a guy who is young and really safe so maybe we should change our premium grid...."

Frankly, I don't know how much "analysis" this story needs.

very young driver
+ inexperienced
+ high powered car
+ bad decision making
= $90,000 wrapped around a tree.

This is a tale as old as time.

....or at least as old as the internal combustion engine.

Mostly, this is just a funny example of a young idiot being just that. And being mocked for it. As he should be.

[GBPackerfan1963]

Peeps, my 2¢.

Age has nothing to do with the accident. Inexperience and lack of respect for the vehicle dynamics and horsepower is what caused the accident.

By the time I was 20, I had three years of drag racing a Pro-Gas car (800+ HP) capable of high 8-second ¼ mile runs. I also had 2-½ years autoX experience.

With that said, it was fortunate that no innocent bystanders were injured in this incident and the car can be replaced.

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by kseyfi86

No such thing as medical bills in Germany.

Keep thinking that there are no medical bills here in Germany. IOT qualify for "free" healthcare you have to have a job and also, like in the US, whatever the insurance does not cover, does not come from the "money fairies"

Also, being found negligent in this incident also will play a factor.........

[04cobra]

I just dont understand how these crashes happen. I have had 500rwhp+ cars since I was 21 (I am 32 now), with almost NO safety mechanisms, or at least they were all turned off, and I have never come close to something like this happening. I feel like I drive pretty aggressive, but have never lost control of the car even with drag radials on. Maybe I am just more cautious around turns or know how to handle my car better. Just crazy to me that these cars can really get away from people that easily, makes me think they must be taking turns at close to triple digit speeds to have that happen

[pillpusher84]

Silly kid! No worries, daddy will just buy him another one.

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

I just dont understand how these crashes happen. I have had 500rwhp+ cars since I was 21 (I am 32 now), with almost NO safety mechanisms, or at least they were all turned off, and I have never come close to something like this happening. I feel like I drive pretty aggressive, but have never lost control of the car even with drag radials on. Maybe I am just more cautious around turns or know how to handle my car better. Just crazy to me that these cars can really get away from people that easily, makes me think they must be taking turns at close to triple digit speeds to have that happen

You know, strong sentiment "I could do everything whit this car" You feel, that you are like young David Hasselhof on Knight Rider. You get girls and feel that you could drive like he. You just lost touch to strongest values. Don´t never test skills on public road!!

[Killer-Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Lups

K. you are in.

LOL next time we meet, ask before coffee Lups how I feel about the Prius who tried to total the mountain I'm stuck in.

Come on, it's early back home, and the phone is ringing. My life is so fab now.



The drive stands. You are welcome any time.

[TeinBMW]

What a shame. First m4 totalled but atleast he's alright. Hopefully he learns from this and doesn't race on street ways.

[Crisp]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

I just dont understand how these crashes happen. I have had 500rwhp+ cars since I was 21 (I am 32 now), with almost NO safety mechanisms, or at least they were all turned off, and I have never come close to something like this happening. I feel like I drive pretty aggressive, but have never lost control of the car even with drag radials on. Maybe I am just more cautious around turns or know how to handle my car better. Just crazy to me that these cars can really get away from people that easily, makes me think they must be taking turns at close to triple digit speeds to have that happen

"These crashes" happen because we're not riding on rails and there are a lot of variables involved. All it takes is that one time.
This kid could have been driving since he was 12yrs old for all we know. Highly unlikely, but that's just one variable. I wouldn't get too confident and cocky with the driving skills. That's when mistakes happen.
Again, there are A LOT of variables. You could be the best driver and some idiot can blow a light, drift out of his lane, or something could distract you at the wrong second and there's your crash. You're not a computer, you can be a very good driver but not perfect, and combined with your aggressive driving, you have a high chance of getting into one of these accidents.

BTW. I'm an 'aggressive' [offensive] driver also, so I'm right there with you. I feel safer being in an offensive position than defensive since I have more control of the scenario. But I am well aware that things like this could happen and I know 'how' very well. Remember, the majority always think they are better than average.

[3M TAPE]

I think he was trying to avoid a person from hitting and ended up hitting the tree dead on.

or

he was young and stupid.

[accce]

I was racing go-carts at 8 and at 20 I was running formula fords. Age has noting to do with it. Experience is what it comes down to. Every new driver should be required to take an advanced driving school instead of wasting time learning about how far to drive behind a firetruck in those stupid drivers ed classes.

[Crisp]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

I think people are focussing on the age too much here. Some of the best divers in the world are his age or close. It is inexperience. That's all. I am in my early 40's and have a friend(same age as me) at work who just bought an IS-f and it's his first high powered performance car. He pretty much drove underpowered econoboxes and small SUVs his entire life. I have seen his confidence level increase fast and surpass his abilities and it got him into trouble. Again, age has nothing to do with it. At 20, age is a factor but there is too much emphasis being put on that rather than inexperience/driving ability. Jmo

Age does have a lot to do with it, whether we want to accept it or not. It has to do with probability which is based on past events.
Yes, some of the best drivers in the world are in their 20's or early 30s'. Those drivers make up 1% of all the drivers on the road. Guess what? Many people have won the lotto. Does that mean that you should make it a full time job to play the lotto? No, because you have to see the bigger picture.

Insurance companies see this, as well as law enforcers and parents. People his age 99% of the time don't have the necessary experience, are less responsible, are insecure and feel that they have something to prove at that age, etc. This is why age always comes up with these topics.

FYI. I am an instructor for BMWCCA Auto-x events. Guys around the age of 25 and younger are the hardest to instruct. They come in hot headed, cocky and confident and refuse to listen. They take any instruction as an insult to their driving ability and continue to screw up. The worst are the ones with fast cars (brand new M3's, GT-R's, 911's, etc). They think that because they have a fast car, they are fast and their way is the right way.
The older generation, mid 30's and over, have a much quicker learning curve as a result of not being as cocky or hot headed.
This is a clear example that age has A LOT to do with it.

[kseyfi86]

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

Keep thinking that there are no medical bills here in Germany. IOT qualify for "free" healthcare you have to have a job and also, like in the US, whatever the insurance does not cover, does not come from the "money fairies"

Also, being found negligent in this incident also will play a factor.........

Hmm guess I should have asked my sister over there first. Learned something new. Either way, money doesn't seem to be a factor to a 20 year old with a brand new M4. I'm sure his mind is only thinking about which car will be his next.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by Crisp

.....Yes, some of the best drivers in the world are in their 20's or early 30s'. Those drivers make up 1% of all the drivers on the road. Guess what? Many people have won the lotto. Does that mean that you should make it a full time job to play the lotto? No, because you have to see the bigger picture.

Insurance companies see this, as well as law enforcers and parents. People his age 99% of the time don't have the necessary experience, are less responsible, are insecure and feel that they have something to prove at that age, etc. This is why age always comes up with these topics........

Obtaining driving knowledge and experience is the same as playing the lottery? LMAO! That is the stupidest thing to compare inexperience and bad driving skills to. Many people have won the lottery? Statistically, that is a blatantly false statement. Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said it's a factor, but ultimately the inexperience/inadequate driving ability is the root cause of the accident. Age and inexperience often times go hand in hand but that's because young people are often times given the keys to a car(even if it is a Toyota Corolla) without any proper and adequate training. Driving schools re invaluable in preventing teenage driving accidents. Even the CDC reports that the highest rates of accidents occurs in the FIRST month of driving. Studies showed that the teens that enrolled in driving schools had a "reductions of 38% and 40% in fatal and injury crashes, respectively, among 16-year-old drivers." So clearly, all 16 year olds are not equal. The difference being the experience and knowledge gained from driving schools. More emphasis should be place on education than just writing it off as "it's just young, cocky, risk takers."

[Crisp]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

Obtaining driving knowledge and experience is the same as playing the lottery? LMAO! That is the stupidest thing to compare inexperience and bad driving skills to. Many people have won the lottery? Statistically, that is a blatantly false statement. Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said it's a factor, but ultimately the inexperience/inadequate driving ability is the root cause of the accident. Age and inexperience often times go hand in hand but that's because young people are often times given the keys to a car(even if it is a Toyota Corolla) without any proper and adequate training. Driving schools re invaluable in preventing teenage driving accidents. Even the CDC reports that the highest rates of accidents occurs in the FIRST month of driving. Studies showed that the teens that enrolled in driving schools had a "reductions of 38% and 40% in fatal and injury crashes, respectively, among 16-year-old drivers." So clearly, all 16 year olds are not equal. The difference being the experience and knowledge gained from driving schools. More emphasis should be place on education than just writing it off as "it's just young, cocky, risk takers."

Making a comment about some of the best drivers being young for such an event is the only stupid thing I see here. It might sound fine in theory, but try making that comment about your son/daughter or other young ones in the family to your insurance company. See if their defensive driving schools and years of training will put them on the same level as someone who's 10yrs older than them. That's the real world. That's also the reason behind people commenting on this persons age, because it has a lot to do with it, 99% of the time.

The irony here is that you're trying to defend my age group, while I'm telling you that your age group is a lot more responsible and much more unlikely to see something like this from.

No one is ignoring the fact that driving schools don't help, no one even mentioned that and people know that's obvious, but you're trying to argue against the majority of the people here generalizing, when you yourself stated "Age and inexperience often times go hand in hand but that's because young people are often times given the keys". Yes, often times, which is exactly what lead to the majority of these posters making comments about the persons age.

[Crisp]

Originally Posted by accce

I was racing go-carts at 8 and at 20 I was running formula fords. Age has noting to do with it. Experience is what it comes down to. Every new driver should be required to take an advanced driving school instead of wasting time learning about how far to drive behind a firetruck in those stupid drivers ed classes.

Age is a huge factor.
Yes, being a race car driver from the age of 5 will lead to you being a better driver than you would have been, but you're ignoring many other factors outside of the 'car world'.

These are all generalizations for the majority, which is what leads people to mention age as a very lightly factor:

Are you going to argue that young people are more responsible than older people?
Or that older people are more careless than younger people? You don't ever look back in life and say "wow I did some stupid risky shit when I was younger?" that you wouldn't do now because you know better?

Eg. I think I'm an excellent driver and can put the car into a perfectly controlled drift. I've done this many times on public roads without ever getting into any accidents or close calls. Does this mean it is safe for me to driver fast because I have a better chance of controlling the car? An older person with more experience under his belt would act differently. They even if they know how to handle the car just as good as that 20yr old, they would not take such risks because they think further than that moment of just looking 'cool', impressing their friends, or just enjoying the moment. If a risk such as a blown tire mid-drift pops up in a 20yr olds head, they are more likely to ignore it as opposed to an older person who might think about their family and kids that they might leave behind if they die, or the people they might hurt during their childish actions.


Hence why people link a persons age to this type of an accident.

[gerbs]

Dibs on the rims

[USE Z4S]

Originally Posted by Crisp

Age is a huge factor.
Yes, being a race car driver from the age of 5 will lead to you being a better driver than you would have been, but you're ignoring many other factors outside of the 'car world'.

These are all generalizations for the majority, which is what leads people to mention age as a very lightly factor:

Are you going to argue that young people are more responsible than older people?
Or that older people are more careless than younger people? You don't ever look back in life and say "wow I did some stupid risky shit when I was younger?" that you wouldn't do now because you know better?

Eg. I think I'm an excellent driver and can put the car into a perfectly controlled drift. I've done this many times on public roads without ever getting into any accidents or close calls. Does this mean it is safe for me to driver fast because I have a better chance of controlling the car? An older person with more experience under his belt would act differently. They even if they know how to handle the car just as good as that 20yr old, they would not take such risks because they think further than that moment of just looking 'cool', impressing their friends, or just enjoying the moment. If a risk such as a blown tire mid-drift pops up in a 20yr olds head, they are more likely to ignore it as opposed to an older person who might think about their family and kids that they might leave behind if they die, or the people they might hurt during their childish actions.


Hence why people link a persons age to this type of an accident.

This seems too obvious to be even debated. But apparently not?

[3M TAPE]

Young means no experience, Period.

[GBPackerfan1963]

Originally Posted by Crisp

Age does have a lot to do with it, whether we want to accept it or not. It has to do with probability which is based on past events.
Yes, some of the best drivers in the world are in their 20's or early 30s'. Those drivers make up 1% of all the drivers on the road. Guess what? Many people have won the lotto. Does that mean that you should make it a full time job to play the lotto? No, because you have to see the bigger picture.

Insurance companies see this, as well as law enforcers and parents. People his age 99% of the time don't have the necessary experience, are less responsible, are insecure and feel that they have something to prove at that age, etc. This is why age always comes up with these topics.

FYI. I am an instructor for BMWCCA Auto-x events. Guys around the age of 25 and younger are the hardest to instruct. They come in hot headed, cocky and confident and refuse to listen. They take any instruction as an insult to their driving ability and continue to screw up. The worst are the ones with fast cars (brand new M3's, GT-R's, 911's, etc). They think that because they have a fast car, they are fast and their way is the right way.
The older generation, mid 30's and over, have a much quicker learning curve as a result of not being as cocky or hot headed.
This is a clear example that age has A LOT to do with it.

Come to California, we have quite the population that does just that, on our dime.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by gerbs

Dibs on the rims

Dibs on the CCB....

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by Crisp

Age does have a lot to do with it, whether we want to accept it or not. It has to do with probability which is based on past events.
Yes, some of the best drivers in the world are in their 20's or early 30s'. Those drivers make up 1% of all the drivers on the road. Guess what? Many people have won the lotto. Does that mean that you should make it a full time job to play the lotto? No, because you have to see the bigger picture.

Insurance companies see this, as well as law enforcers and parents. People his age 99% of the time don't have the necessary experience, are less responsible, are insecure and feel that they have something to prove at that age, etc. This is why age always comes up with these topics.

FYI. I am an instructor for BMWCCA Auto-x events. Guys around the age of 25 and younger are the hardest to instruct. They come in hot headed, cocky and confident and refuse to listen. They take any instruction as an insult to their driving ability and continue to screw up. The worst are the ones with fast cars (brand new M3's, GT-R's, 911's, etc). They think that because they have a fast car, they are fast and their way is the right way.
The older generation, mid 30's and over, have a much quicker learning curve as a result of not being as cocky or hot headed.
This is a clear example that age has A LOT to do with it.

Yes,it all comes down to how teens and young adult process RISKY situations. They always ignore the risk associated with situations,they think they can always get away with it.
its all psychology of the teenage mind