July 2014 BBC Top Gear - BMW M4 vs. C7 Corvette Stingray

[Keto]

Clickbait.

Even if he didn't like the car -- and there are people who don't, good for them -- the language he is using is for clicks. Look how fast the previous generation owners jumped all over this -- clicks. Then all the new buyers go there. Clicks. Saying a halo car's latest iteration sucks is certainly clickbait. Look at the language:

"The BMW M4 never comes alive. It has elements of greatness, but when it comes down to it, the newest M car never gives that extra dose of character that makes your brain fuzz with emotion. It’s fast, efficient and an excellent daily driver. It will also do quite spectacular skids. But it’s lost some of the sense of humour that previous Ms have had in spades. It feels staid and synthetic and, for me, it’s a huge disappointment. Not one person came forward in its defence."

It reads like the writer is trying too hard to be negative, then his last sentence is belied by the names that drive the magazine (Clarkson/Hammond) saying quite the opposite.

Again, clickbait. It's not BuzzFeed, but it's close. "15 reasons the new M3 is such a disappointment" followed in a couple of weeks by "12 reasons the new M3 will change your life".

[budpaul]

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by budpaul

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

Get with the times. The C7 is a modern sports car for any age group, but like the M3/4, the cost of entry is high which automatically reduces the buyers to wealthier (most of the time this is older) people.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by budpaul

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

IMO i think its weird to see older people driving flashy sports car in general. like who are you trying to impress ? dont you have a wife lol!

[alms21]

Originally Posted by budpaul

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

Thanks for the first hand research on the small penis buyers. Did you like the taste? What size penis do Porsche buyers, BMW buyers, etc. have? Just curious on your personal findings with those types of buyers.

Originally Posted by M3guy3

IMO i think its weird to see older people driving flashy sports car in general. like who are you trying to impress ? dont you have a wife lol!

Because people that buy sportscars do so solely to impress someone else huh. You fit the typical BMW stereotype perfectly

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

IMO i think its weird to see older people driving flashy sports car in general. like who are you trying to impress ? dont you have a wife lol!

The mistress? Just remember, one day you're going to "look" old too. Will you feel it?

What bothers me (and it shouldn't, it is none of my business) is when I see someone, regardless of age, driving 25 in a 45 in a 911 Turbo S. I just die a bit inside knowing about all that wasted potential.

[JRV]

Going to check out a DCT SO M3 sometime tomorrow. My wife doesn't want to come though. She said "why, I would just be extra weight in the car" - such a genius.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by JRV

Going to check out a DCT SO M3 sometime tomorrow. My wife doesn't want to come though. She said "why, I would just be extra weight in the car" - such a genius.

She is definitely a keeper!

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by budpaul

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

You're right, it would suck to own a car that came with negative stereotypes. Fortunately BMW owners -- and especially M car owners -- have avoided that thus far....

[phear_me]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

Yes. I heard a lot about the new Stingray. Haven't heard any bad reviews. For its price, it is a no brainer.

Coming from a Corvette C6 with the C7 being my second choice car it basically works like this:

If you don't need a back seat get the corvette.
If you need a backseat get the M4.
If you really need 4 doors get the M3.

Simple.

[phear_me]

Originally Posted by budpaul

Corvette buyers are middle age balding dudes with a small penis -who cares what that dude thinks...

And somehow the more expensive M4 avoids this? Putting people down because they have a nice car is childish. The C7 is the best value performance car in the market. The BMW is the best value all around car in the market.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The mistress? Just remember, one day you're going to "look" old too. Will you feel it?

What bothers me (and it shouldn't, it is none of my business) is when I see someone, regardless of age, driving 25 in a 45 in a 911 Turbo S. I just die a bit inside knowing about all that wasted potential.

So you've seen my wife drive. Makes me crazy too.

[e39>all]

Man, these guys have really tough jobs

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So you've seen my wife drive. Makes me crazy too.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The mistress? Just remember, one day you're going to "look" old too. Will you feel it?

What bothers me (and it shouldn't, it is none of my business) is when I see someone, regardless of age, driving 25 in a 45 in a 911 Turbo S. I just die a bit inside knowing about all that wasted potential.

I am not a person who mocks older people, trust me. I just think its weird to see older guys driving flashy cars. I understand if someone is very wealthy and they want a Lamborghini to add to the "collect".

IMO a AMG, or M car is less flashy, more something you can pull up to the office in. instead of that red corvette, that every 16 year old wants.

[sherm]

The C7 is a better sports car.. That's a given. The M3/M4 is a more practical car for people who aren't looking for a weekend car, rather looking for a DD. I was very close to leasing a new C7 and though tempting because it's gorgeous in so many ways, I declined once I researched the M4. Not to mention that a $65K C7 lease rates are ridiculous and just about the same price for an $80K M4. I simply asked myself what I could see myself still driving in 3 years and let me tell you, sports cars definitely get tiring after a while as I'm currently in a '10 Camaro SS. So, it's just simply a matter of opinion. This article is ridiculous when they just glorified the M3/M4 in another article.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by phear_me

Coming from a Corvette C6 with the C7 being my second choice car it basically works like this:

If you don't need a back seat get the corvette.
If you need a backseat get the M4.
If you really need 4 doors get the M3.

Simple.

This... having owned the C7 and picking up my M4 on Monday.

The only other thing I'd add is...

1. If you like owning a "badge" get the M3/4

2. If you want a lot of attention on the road get the C7

3. If you don't care about either of #1 and #2, see what phear_me said.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

I have to be honest. What is the percentage of "people" that can own a NEW 911-4S in the USA?
Edit: people = M3/M4 owners.

A different frame:

I'm the medical director of an emergency room. I know the salaries of every doctor in the group. I'm not the highest paid in the group, but close. 3/4 of the group including me could easily afford a new 911S.

Yet, my car is the most expensive in the group by far (both 550 and the new M3) and a few of my buds shake their heads at me for spending that much money on a car.

$40k/yr for private school doesn't help but the 911 buyer is not just everyone who could afford one, but a small subset of that group.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Yes, but I don't remember any E9x M3 reviews quite as negative as this. And Top Gear's definitely wasn't. This is also hardly an isolated case. The fact that the Cayman GTS reviews are through the roof isn't helping matters either for people who don't really need rear seats....

But the M3 beat the cayman in a head to head earlier in the article.

In fact, having now read the whole speed week feature (not just the part excerpted above) a few observations:
- article starts from premise that they have culled the best 14 or so performance vehicles from 2014. So M4 made it past that cull.
- from outset, author not a huge fan of M4 sound. A divisive point (we know Hammond is, as are others. Seems a love it or hate it thing)
- it then gets past Cayman GTS heads up (briefly, cayman is great car, but not enough of improvement on base and thus disappointed)
- the excerpt above is the 'final group' (best of best if you will)
- did anyone think it would beat 918 or P1? If so, seek help.
- my Vw roots leave me happy the Golf did well...but that isn't exactly a cross-shop
- so, that leaves us with head to head, with performance as metric, it lost to C7.
- not on all around use (which is what matters to, say, me and most people buying the car) but in a test where we are looking at P1 or 918 as setting standard, C7 was closer to that.

Ok, I get that.

I mean, the same was said about the E90 vs C7
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...son-test3.html

('Ass whipping at the track')

What is most interesting is how much this car divided opinions. Like this forum, the move from the last gen (NA, hydraulic) to the new reality (FI, EPS) is not easy for everyone. But time moves on. And, like it or not, the M3 is still setting the bar and tempo in the new world order.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Every once in awhile I read an actual series of driving comments that make me think,

"Were the tires cooked from previous use?"

"Did someone hit a curb and the alignment is off but no one noticed?"

"Is there something wrong with this vehicle that's not obvious, but completely changes it's driving character when driven hard, and no one knows it?"

...

The comments about it's driving at the limits are just so far off every other reviewer - reviewers who have been on the track and streets for hours with the car - that it really makes me wonder.

You can't drive like a 2003 Cobra one day and better than an e92 m3 another day and be driving the same car. I can accept that for some the car might not "excite" - that's fine, it's opinion.

But I can't accept that it's barely under control near the limit, is frustrating to drive there, and yet others are racking up great times and blown away by the ease of driving it so fast when going 9/10th and 10/10ths. That's too much within the objective realm of a review.

Had the same reaction. Have read every other professional review in the main forum and absolutely nobody raised a similar point.

Odd, that.

[bluekn8286]

I haven't heard too many horrible reviews (aside from this one) for the new M3/M4. However, regardless of positive or negative reviews, I will definitely be holding onto my e92 M3

[SOM3]

Originally Posted by bluekn8286

I haven't heard too many horrible reviews (aside from this one) for the new M3/M4. However, regardless of positive or negative reviews, I will definitely be holding onto my e92 M3