Winter rims/tires - GTA

[Mikster]

A couple of comments.

@TheOne: I've got 18" Nokian Hakkallepitta (sp?) R2 on the 640M rims. I got them from my BMW dealer (Maranello). They put a custom package together for me since I had heard great things about the Nokians, and I really wanted 18" wheels.

Anyway, I also find that, at highway speeds on dry pavement, the car is VERY "understeery". Not really floaty, but when I nudge the wheel left or right, the tires feel like they are sticking to the ground. Not sharp or tact turning, but just like understeer feels but to a higher degree. The car does eventually turn fine, though, and tracks okay. It's just that moving the wheel left or right feels almost disconnected. I suspect the electric steering has a bit to do with it, but I hadn't driven my summer tires enough to notice the difference.



Yesterday, I had the honour of driving home from the airport to mid-town Toronto. Roads like 427, Rexdale, Dixon were UNPLOWED. The airport exit was COMPLETELY unplowed and that's where I felt like I almost spun out. I don't think its a traction issue--its more a question of having such wide front tires that they don't cut through the snow windrows. In deep snow when you get into those "ruts", that also means it's tougher to cut thru.

And true..I drove in second gear at about 40km/h the WHOLE way home. Making sure I controlled the torque at the rear wheels.

BUT..I was surprised in many instances. I had lots of hills up and down on Eglinton, from 427 all the way to Allen. Roads were semi-deep snow, with ruts, and some clearer spots. But no real slush or salt down yet.

Going up the hills I was able to grab with little problem. In some instances where the car was almost snow-plowing, I gave it a bit of gas and I would be able to push thru. The traction light flickered on/off in some cases where there was slip, and it actually kept the car true and straight.

I was pleasantly surprised.

Would I want to go out in that again? I've been driving RWD most of my life, so generally I try to avoid the nasty stuff. But I think the BMW engineers did their homework here, coupled with drivers who pay attention, ease the throttle, brake and steering.

M

[01ON19]

Originally Posted by Mikster

@TheOne: I've got 18" Nokian Hakkallepitta (sp?) R2 on the 640M rims.

But I think the BMW engineers did their homework here, coupled with drivers who pay attention, ease the throttle, brake and steering.

M

Agreed. I drove all over Toronto in the storm yesterday with no serious problems. And, I have the Continental WinterContact TS 830P that I don't think are nearly as good in deep snow as the Nokians.

It seemed to be a matter of starting very gently in 2nd gear. I think using MDM mode made for a slight improvement, but hard to be sure. I may add some weight in the trunk though.

[TheOne]

Originally Posted by sunnyboy

Glad you are asking. I told @woosolow that I was going to take my car out for a spin last night with the Blizzaks on snow. The result was that it didn't run as well as I wanted on thick snow. I was like slippin' and slidin' all over the place. It was fun, but not as much traction as I would have expected from winter tires. I think there are 2 things:

1) The LM-32 are more geared for performance, so definitely ain't going to be as good in 10cm of snow.
2) The car is just a serious torque monster.

I actually wanted the softer compound (WS60, I think) but was suggested that with the M4, it will likely rip the thread apart on that tire.

Also, my experience on my 335i was also no problem. Much less spinning and better traction. But I guess M4 just pushes that much harder.

Hope this helps. Cheers.

Thanks @SunnyBoy

I'm thinking maybe I should swap them and go for the LM-32 cause performance is more important to me than driving on snow covered roads in the M4 :

[TheOne]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I did not drive my M4 yesterday as I used my wifes X3 with 19" LM 32's and the tires take a lot of provocation to induce sliding in the snow we had yesterday.Drove the M4 today on some snow covered packed roads and seemed quite good for what it is so I am sure the LM32's will fine for a Toronto winter on the M.

What's it like to drive on dry roads with LM-32s on ?

Do you take corners confidently and with reasonable traction on cold, dry roads ?

I'm a sensible driver in winter time yet I'd like to feel the car is planted on dry roads in the winter.

[TheOne]

Originally Posted by Mikster

A couple of comments.

@TheOne: I've got 18" Nokian Hakkallepitta (sp?) R2 on the 640M rims. I got them from my BMW dealer (Maranello). They put a custom package together for me since I had heard great things about the Nokians, and I really wanted 18" wheels.

Anyway, I also find that, at highway speeds on dry pavement, the car is VERY "understeery". Not really floaty, but when I nudge the wheel left or right, the tires feel like they are sticking to the ground. Not sharp or tact turning, but just like understeer feels but to a higher degree. The car does eventually turn fine, though, and tracks okay. It's just that moving the wheel left or right feels almost disconnected. I suspect the electric steering has a bit to do with it, but I hadn't driven my summer tires enough to notice the difference.



Yesterday, I had the honour of driving home from the airport to mid-town Toronto. Roads like 427, Rexdale, Dixon where UNPLOWED. The airport exit was COMPLETELY unplowed and that's where I felt like I almost spun out. I don't think its a traction issue--its more a question of having such wide front tires that they don't cut through the snow windrows. In deep snow when you get into those "ruts", that also means it's tougher to cut thru.

And true..I drove in second gear at about 40km/h the WHOLE way home. Making sure I controlled the torque at the rear wheels.

BUT..I was surprised in many instances. I had lots of hills up and down on Eglinton, from 427 all the way to Allen. Roads were semi-deep snow, with ruts, and some clearer spots. But no real slush or salt down yet.

Going up the hills I was able to grab with little problem. In some instances where the car was almost snow-plowing, I gave it a bit of gas and I would be able to push thru. The traction light flickered on/off in some cases where there was slip, and it actually kept the car true and straight.

I was pleasantly surprised.

Would I want to go out in that again? I've been driving RWD most of my life, so generally I try to avoid the nasty stuff. But I think the BMW engineers did their homework here, coupled with drivers who pay attention, ease the throttle, brake and steering.

M

Mikster

So is it safe to assume your Nokians are more of a set of hardcore winter tires ?

I know exactly what you mean by the understeer feel.

Just like you I've driven RWD cars pretty much all my life.

Honestly on super nasty days I don't even need to drive to work and meetings I get picked up.

So again performance on cold, dry and occasional slush is my only priority .... Don't wanna compromise the feel of confidant dry road traction.

You're right about M4s big jump in torque compared to 335 or 335is plays a role in this.


I still need to know what would be my best performance option.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by TheOne

What's it like to drive on dry roads with LM-32s on ?

Do you take corners confidently and with reasonable traction on cold, dry roads ?

I'm a sensible driver in winter time yet I'd like to feel the car is planted on dry roads in the winter.

90% of my driving is commuting on the 401 403 407 & QEW and find the LM32's are just fine with this use.Yes the car does move around a fair bit in crosswinds compared to the summer setup but I expected that.My big challenge with this setup is make sure I do not burn the tires off before the winter is over as I drive 4-5000 kms per month

[Mikster]

Originally Posted by Kanuck

Agreed. I drove all over Toronto in the storm yesterday with no serious problems. And, I have the Continental WinterContact TS 830P that I don't think are nearly as good in deep snow as the Nokians.

It seemed to be a matter of starting very gently in 2nd gear. I think using MDM mode made for a slight improvement, but hard to be sure. I may add some weight in the trunk though.

What do you mean, "starting" in 2nd gear? I'd start in 1st, and then shift at about 1500rpm into 2nd.

What's MDM?
M

[Mikster]

Originally Posted by TheOne

Mikster

So is it safe to assume your Nokians are more of a set of hardcore winter tires ?

I know exactly what you mean by the understeer feel.

Just like you I've driven RWD cars pretty much all my life.

Honestly on super nasty days I don't even need to drive to work and meetings I get picked up.

So again performance on cold, dry and occasional slush is my only priority .... Don't wanna compromise the feel of confidant dry road traction.

You're right about M4s big jump in torque compared to 335 or 335is plays a role in this.


I still need to know what would be my best performance option.

Indeed, I'd say the Nokian's were truer winter tires. The R2s are apparently much better than the previous generation and less soft. But, I'd venture they are closer to a winter tire, vs., say, a Continental which may be a tad stiffer for the classic winter-driving-on-mostly-bare-roads conditions.

And yeah, on super nasty days I work from home, or drive the X6. Just that on Thursday, I got caught off guard!

M

[01ON19]

Originally Posted by Mikster

What do you mean, "starting" in 2nd gear? I'd start in 1st, and then shift at about 1500rpm into 2nd.

What's MDM?
M

Not sure what transmission you have although you can start in 2nd gear with manual or DCT. With DCT, toggle into sequential mode and then shift into 2nd gear. You can do this at a stop.

MDM = M Dynamic Mode. This is a less intrusive version of the stability control system, however the North American version does not reduce the "intrusiveness" nearly as much as the European version. I don't think in snow MDM is a big deal either way. if you need some wheel spin, you need to turn traction control completely off, especially on North American cars.

[sunnyboy]

Originally Posted by TheOne

Thanks @SunnyBoy

I'm thinking maybe I should swap them and go for the LM-32 cause performance is more important to me than driving on snow covered roads in the M4 :

Hey @TheOne,

Actually the drive with the LM-32 sounds very similar to the Nokian experienced by @Mikster below... When you move the steering wheel left and right, it feels sticky but then it ultimately turns properly and comfortably.

As for flying around corner, yes, I feel comfortable going on the dry pavement.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Mikster

A couple of comments.

@TheOne: I've got 18" Nokian Hakkallepitta (sp?) R2 on the 640M rims. I got them from my BMW dealer (Maranello). They put a custom package together for me since I had heard great things about the Nokians, and I really wanted 18" wheels.

Anyway, I also find that, at highway speeds on dry pavement, the car is VERY "understeery". Not really floaty, but when I nudge the wheel left or right, the tires feel like they are sticking to the ground. Not sharp or tact turning, but just like understeer feels but to a higher degree. The car does eventually turn fine, though, and tracks okay. It's just that moving the wheel left or right feels almost disconnected. I suspect the electric steering has a bit to do with it, but I hadn't driven my summer tires enough to notice the difference.

Yesterday, I had the honour of driving home from the airport to mid-town Toronto. Roads like 427, Rexdale, Dixon were UNPLOWED. The airport exit was COMPLETELY unplowed and that's where I felt like I almost spun out. I don't think its a traction issue--its more a question of having such wide front tires that they don't cut through the snow windrows. In deep snow when you get into those "ruts", that also means it's tougher to cut thru.

And true..I drove in second gear at about 40km/h the WHOLE way home. Making sure I controlled the torque at the rear wheels.

BUT..I was surprised in many instances. I had lots of hills up and down on Eglinton, from 427 all the way to Allen. Roads were semi-deep snow, with ruts, and some clearer spots. But no real slush or salt down yet.

Going up the hills I was able to grab with little problem. In some instances where the car was almost snow-plowing, I gave it a bit of gas and I would be able to push thru. The traction light flickered on/off in some cases where there was slip, and it actually kept the car true and straight.

I was pleasantly surprised.

Would I want to go out in that again? I've been driving RWD most of my life, so generally I try to avoid the nasty stuff. But I think the BMW engineers did their homework here, coupled with drivers who pay attention, ease the throttle, brake and steering.

M

[Mikster]

Originally Posted by Kanuck

Not sure what transmission you have although you can start in 2nd gear with manual or DCT. With DCT, toggle into sequential mode and then shift into 2nd gear. You can do this at a stop.

MDM = M Dynamic Mode. This is a less intrusive version of the stability control system, however the North American version does not reduce the "intrusiveness" nearly as much as the European version. I don't think in snow MDM is a big deal either way. if you need some wheel spin, you need to turn traction control completely off, especially on North American cars.

Yeah I've got the 6MT. I know what you mean now.
M

[SlapShot81]

Do you mind sharing the size of your Nokian Hakka R2 tires? I may be able to get a set of 640M wheels (staggered) but the R2s appear to come in 245/45 R18 as opposed to a BMW recommended 255/40 R18 tire. Appreciate your help!

Originally Posted by Mikster

A couple of comments.

@TheOne: I've got 18" Nokian Hakkallepitta (sp?) R2 on the 640M rims. I got them from my BMW dealer (Maranello). They put a custom package together for me since I had heard great things about the Nokians, and I really wanted 18" wheels.

Anyway, I also find that, at highway speeds on dry pavement, the car is VERY "understeery". Not really floaty, but when I nudge the wheel left or right, the tires feel like they are sticking to the ground. Not sharp or tact turning, but just like understeer feels but to a higher degree. The car does eventually turn fine, though, and tracks okay. It's just that moving the wheel left or right feels almost disconnected. I suspect the electric steering has a bit to do with it, but I hadn't driven my summer tires enough to notice the difference.



Yesterday, I had the honour of driving home from the airport to mid-town Toronto. Roads like 427, Rexdale, Dixon were UNPLOWED. The airport exit was COMPLETELY unplowed and that's where I felt like I almost spun out. I don't think its a traction issue--its more a question of having such wide front tires that they don't cut through the snow windrows. In deep snow when you get into those "ruts", that also means it's tougher to cut thru.

And true..I drove in second gear at about 40km/h the WHOLE way home. Making sure I controlled the torque at the rear wheels.

BUT..I was surprised in many instances. I had lots of hills up and down on Eglinton, from 427 all the way to Allen. Roads were semi-deep snow, with ruts, and some clearer spots. But no real slush or salt down yet.

Going up the hills I was able to grab with little problem. In some instances where the car was almost snow-plowing, I gave it a bit of gas and I would be able to push thru. The traction light flickered on/off in some cases where there was slip, and it actually kept the car true and straight.

I was pleasantly surprised.

Would I want to go out in that again? I've been driving RWD most of my life, so generally I try to avoid the nasty stuff. But I think the BMW engineers did their homework here, coupled with drivers who pay attention, ease the throttle, brake and steering.

M

[Mikster]

Indeed. I got the staggered BMW rims (36-11-2-84-905 & 906) and the 245/40R18 Nokians all around.
M

[SlapShot81]

Originally Posted by Mikster

Indeed. I got the staggered BMW rims (36-11-2-84-905 & 906) and the 245/40R18 Nokians all around.
M

Thank you. Is there a reson you dind't go with a 245/45R18? Also how does the rear tire look on the 18x9 wheel - not too stretched?

[Mikster]

I got the staggered wheels because they were recommended officially by BMW. So I figured I'd get them because they'd be easier to resell later on, in case a future buyer was looking for an OEM setup for winter.
But I went with my size tire because that's closest to OEM and I didn't want a higher sidewall. After all, we don't get blizzards all-year 'round...most of the time we are on dry pavement so I still need *some* performance. Also, I'm pretty sure that my dealer wasn't able to source the 45 profile tire...for some reason I think they were not available for sale at that point in time.
And the rears don't look stretched at ALL. They look fine.

M

[SlapShot81]

Originally Posted by Mikster

I got the staggered wheels because they were recommended officially by BMW. So I figured I'd get them because they'd be easier to resell later on, in case a future buyer was looking for an OEM setup for winter.
But I went with my size tire because that's closest to OEM and I didn't want a higher sidewall. After all, we don't get blizzards all-year 'round...most of the time we are on dry pavement so I still need *some* performance. Also, I'm pretty sure that my dealer wasn't able to source the 45 profile tire...for some reason I think they were not available for sale at that point in time.
And the rears don't look stretched at ALL. They look fine.

M

Awesome! I am leaning towards the same setup... I like the 19s too but with the potholes we get in Chicago the 18 sounds like a better idea. Getting my m4 around Dec (ED pick up in late Oct), so i will need something soon. My dealer is not willing to give me a package deal with the Nokians (nor can they source them) so I would buy wheels and tires separately. If you happen to have photos with the winters on that you can share that would be super helpful. Thanks again!

[Mikster]

What do you mean, photos? You quoted me a few posts earlier...that's my M3 in all that messy snow.
M

[SlapShot81]

Originally Posted by Mikster

What do you mean, photos? You quoted me a few posts earlier...that's my M3 in all that messy snow.
M

Good one... Could hardly see the wheels with all that snow... Thanks for your help.

[aboulfad]

I will be getting Nokian R2, I was thinking the 8 without studs but gthal convinced me otherwise in his thread, I will do a square setup 245/45R18 as this will allow to rotate the tires. We do get few blizzards here so I want to be prepared for the worst in winter. Going with 18 because guaranteed that 19 will be damaged in one winter season in our horrible roads here in Montreal, we have major potholes, and on some roads you'll see few dozen hub caps lying on the side come March... I am not overly concerned with the 1-2% speedo and diameter difference between that setup and the OEM 255/40. I will mount the tires on BBS SR 019 (18x8) model. Good luck ! ($3100 CDN tax in for the set

I really like the 640M style but way too expensive for winter application IMHO.

[///Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I will be getting Nokian R2, I was thinking the 8 without studs but gthal convinced me otherwise in his thread, I will do a square setup 245/45R18 as this will allow to rotate the tires. We do get few blizzards here so I want to be prepared for the worst in winter. Going with 18 because guaranteed that 19 will be damaged in one winter season in our horrible roads here in Montreal, we have major potholes, and on some roads you'll see few dozen hub caps lying on the side come March... I am not overly concerned with the 1-2% speedo and diameter difference between that setup and the OEM 255/40. I will mount the tires on BBS SR 019 (18x8) model. Good luck ! ($3100 CDN tax in for the set )

I really like the 640M style but way too expensive for winter application IMHO.

Are you getting this set through a local shop? Please break down price of wheels and tires, if possible.

I'm thinking of visiting Chicago for a week with the fam and coming back with a set of 513M in 18x9, then pairing them with the Nokian R2.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by ///Machiavelli

Are you getting this set through a local shop? Please break down price of wheels and tires, if possible.

I'm thinking of visiting Chicago for a week with the fam and coming back with a set of 513M in 18x9, then pairing them with the Nokian R2.

Sure, I am getting them from Vag Motorsport in Laval. Prices for each, 4 required
-BBS SR 019 18x8: $390 CDN (includes metal centering ring)
-Nokian 8 wo studs or R2 245/45R18: $278 CDN
With tire tax and with GST/PST taxes it came to roughly $3100. The price includes installation on car but I may just do it myself.

I was going to buy from tire rack and ship to Canada but with USD it comes even more and they don't carry Nokian and in the end I thought it's good to deal w local stores for warranty, service, ... I was impressed w the knowledge at VAG, they know their stuff.

I had an offer from my dealer for a one season used 255/40R18 Conti on the 640m but I thought better to get new, w just $500 difference.

[SlapShot81]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I really like the 640M style but way too expensive for winter application IMHO.

Agree... I am also considering Rial P10 or the BBS wheels. Any particular reason for your to go with the BSS wheels over Rial? Is it just aesthetics or is there something else?