F80 M3 vs 991 Carrera S from a roll

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Indie4

Here is one for comparison 991.2 s vs M3 CP at Magny-Cours GP Track. As you will see the M3 is 1.3 seconds faster. Imagine the difference if a 991.1 S was used!

Clearly the guy couldn't drive. Find me another test where the result is like above? You can't and won't. Odd because I've seen that "test" you posted and there was a second track where the results showed very differently than your cherry picked data and only serves my points. If you think these two are are at all close you are extremely naive. In that case read on as I've posted plenty of empirical data that flat out disproves you and shows even the best M created in the M4 GTS is still not at the level of a current Carrera S.

Then tell me this. Why has the 991.2S been tested to be embarrass the M4 GTS despite the GTS having 80 more hp, 80 more torque and running Cup tires vs a summer street tire on the 991?

Sorry but the evidence doesn't support one outlier of some clown who can't drive.

Sport Auto
991.2S - 7:34
M4 GTS - 7:37

Hockenheim
991.2S - 1:09.6
M4 GTS - 1:09.6

Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
991.2S - 1:36.44
M4 GTS - 1:37.66

Grand Tour - Eboladrome
991.2S - 1:21.4
M4 GTS - 1:22.4
M3 - 1:24.3


Again on the same tires as the M4 GTS the 991.2 S would be even faster. That goes on all times. The times as they are even at a tire disadvantage strongly favor the 911. Please explain the above given your initial post. I'd love to know why the best car M can make loses badly to a basic 911.

Here's a test of the 991.2 base vs M3 by autocar
991.1 BASE - 1:32.47
M3 - 1:33.6
GTR - 1:32.47

Go look at times of the 991.1S it trounces the M3 and the 991.2S is in another ballgame altogether.

I'll go one further. Here's a BASE 991.1 against an M4. The 991.1 base was 1.4 seconds faster on a sub 1:20 lap.

And at Motown Mile, the results were the same, 991.1 base 1 second faster on a sub 1 min lap.

I'll add yet another:
MT Thunderhill Raceway
991.2 BASE (7MT) - 1:23.82
M3 Competition (DCT) 1:23.89
Just adding PDK (equal transmissions), the 911 would be at least 1-1.5 seconds faster, but again, even as is, the 911 was faster despite a huge deficit in power to weight and at the disadvantage of transmission type.

Again, I encourage you to find data that proves otherwise.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by adc

Those times on stock tires are meaningless. Unless the car comes with Pilot Cups, tracking on stock street tires is an exercise in futility - both in the Porsche as in the BMW. As I'm sure you already know since you no doubt track your cars.

Put some meaty appropriate tires on the M3 is what I meant, and lap times will be very similar. As I'm sure you already know, since you own both.

Put dedicated track tires on the M3 and it will be even closer since it completely eradicates the traction disadvantage of the BMW. As I'm sure you already know since you own both, and of course you're not into roll racing but rather have tracked both cars.


This is a very fair way to look at things, since you can buy two freakin M's for the price of one Porsche.

So basically what you're saying is for an M3/4 to keep up you need to give it a tire advantage? R compound on the M3/4 and summer on the 911? That sounds wrong to me to make changes to one vs the other as the 911 will also benefit from a better compound tire.
Explain to me why an M4 GTS which has 20% more power and torque AND on cup tires vs summer still can't touch a 991.2S?
The thing is, if you stuck a dedicated tire in the 911 (keeping tires equal) the 911 will only be faster yet again.

I've spoken to this point about REAL racing and it takes a race prepped M3/4 (IM or CM class) to keep up with a bone stock from the factory 911.

To look at it fairly, you need to turn the m3 into a race car (losing all its qualities as a daily driven car) to make it perform like a 911. And at the end of the car you'll likely spend close to what a 911 costs. A base 991.2 is faster on track and in a straight than an M3/4 competition and doesn't cost much more.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by ///F80M3

Typical Porsche fan boy response

Actually that's the typical M driver response.

So you think an M3/4 is more about straight line than handling?

What about the fact a Camaro for 1/2 the price of an M3 beats it in a straight and on track?

[///F80M3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Actually that's the typical M driver response.

So you think an M3/4 is more about straight line than handling?

What about the fact a Camaro for 1/2 the price of an M3 beats it in a straight and on track?

The Porsche lost just take the L and move on. Isn't the m3 cheaper than the 911 but still lost? lmao

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by ///F80M3

The Porsche lost just take the L and move on. Isn't the m3 cheaper than the 911 but still lost? lmao

I don't particularly care about it barely losing in a straight. Again, I own BOTH cars, and it's a drivers race except on a circuit. It's not a driver's race anymore given the new turbo 911s where a base 991 is faster than an m3/4 competition (straight or lap times).

[Indie4]

So I am not allowed to cherry pick the way you have! and yes I have seen the comparison on the smaller track but clearly on a larger GP mainly this track the M4 CP is quicker.

As for the "he can't drive comment" Romain Monti currently races in the Blancpain Gt Series in an Audi R8 LMS and before was in Porsche Carrera Cup so actually I think he can drive especially the Porsche!

You seem like I am having a go at the Porsche which I am not. Had a 997 GTS which I loved and no doubt will go back to one someday.

It's seems you are getting yourself a bit worked up here....chill out!

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Indie4

So I am not allowed to cherry pick the way you have! and yes I have seen the comparison on the smaller track but clearly on a larger GP mainly this track the M4 CP is quicker.

As for the "he can't drive comment" Romain Monti currently races in the Blancpain Gt Series in an Audi R8 LMS and before was in Porsche Carrera Cup so actually I think he can drive especially the Porsche!

You seem like I am having a go at the Porsche which I am not. Had a 997 GTS which I loved and no doubt will go back to one someday.

It's seems you are getting yourself a bit worked up here....chill out!

Not at all worked up. The time doesn't jive with EVERY other test whether thanks a big track or a smaller track. The Ring or MRLS being two examples of such where the 991.2S easily beats even the GTS.
Additionally, the 718S beat the M3 competition. I don't think that makes sense the 718S would beat the 991.2S either. I'd ideally put the lap times of the 718 and M3 close with the edge to the 718 but the 911 is much faster than both.
Again, I showed you many different tracks and they prove the 991.2S is faster than an M4 GTS. The M4 GTS is faster than any other m3/4 so therefore the 991.2S as I have also proven is faster than any m3/4 version they can make.
You still didn't offer up an explanation as to why an M4 GTS is slower in EVERY track test vs a basic Carrera S even though the GTS had a big advantage in tires, hp and torque.
My thing is this. If you're going to make blanket statement you'd better have the data to back it up. You clearly don't given you can answer why a Carrera S beats an M4 GTS and all the other tests I've shown have even the old 991.1S and even base 991.1 beating the M3/4 in nearly every comparison there is out there.

[Indie4]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Not at all. Again, I showed you many different tracks and they prove the 991.2S is faster than an M4 GTS. The M4 GTS is faster than any other m3/4 so therefore the 991.2S as I have also proven is faster than any m3/4 version they can make.
You still didn't offer up an explanation as to why an M4 GTS is slower in EVERY track test vs a basic Carrera S even though the GTS had a big advantage in tires, hp and torque.
My thing is this. If you're going to make blanket statement you'd better have the data to back it up. You clearly don't given you can answer why a Carrera S beats an M4 GTS and all the other tests I've shown have even the old 991.1S and even base 991.1 beating the M3/4 in nearly every comparison there is out there.

I don't think I ever said it was quicker at the mentioned places however it is round Magny-Cours a proper big GP track and I don't have the time to drivel on!

Personally I really don't care.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

They both come with pilot super sports. And yes, it's definitely lopsided.

Here's a few comparable times:

Motown Mile - 911 is 2.5 seconds faster on a 55 second lap
sachsenring - 911 is 2 seconds faster in a 1:3x lap
Contidrom - 911 is 7 seconds faster on a 1:3x lap
Hockenheim- 911 is 2.2 seconds faster on a 1:1x lap

The times are not close at all. In fact, a base 991.1 is faster on track than some of the m3/4 times.

Here's the base F80 M3 (non-ZCP) with a fully-useable back seat and trunk for way less money that the base 991.1:

Porsche 911 Carrera (991)
B6
350 ps (345 bhp)
390 Nm (288 lb-ft)
1400 kg (3086 lbs)
250 ps / tonne
Picture of BMW M3 (F80)
BMW M3 (F80)
Twin Turbo Inline-6, 24v
431 ps (425 bhp)
550 Nm (406 lb-ft)
1589 kg (3503 lbs)
271 ps / tonne
Lap Times 4
911 Carrera M3
Llandow 0:46.30 0:46.70
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (post 06/2008) 1:23.60 1:23.27
Tsukuba 1:05.44 1:04.40
Hockenheim Short 1:13.10 1:13.10
Performance
911 Carrera M3
Top speed 293 kph (182 mph) 280 kph (174 mph)
0 - 80 kph 3.1 s 2.9 s
0 - 100 kph 4.3 s 4.1 s
0 - 200 kph 17.1 s 13.3 s
0 - 60 mph 4.2 s 3.8 s
0 - 100 mph 9.7 s 8.5 s
0 - 150 mph 26.0 s 20.8 s
Est. 1/8 mile 8.3 s @ 92.6 mph 8.1 s @ 96.3 mph
1/4 mile 12.4 s @ 115.0 mph 12.0 s @ 119.3 mph
1000 m 22.5 s @ 236.0 kph 22.2 s @ 243.5 kph
Est. 100 - 200 kph 12.8 s 9.2 s
70 mph - 0 47 m (153 ft) 46 m (150 ft)
Summary
911 Carrera M3
Track Performance 394 397
Straight line speed 921 1187
Total 1315 1585
Verdict

M3 is the fastest by a small margin.

This comparison has been viewed 173 times.

[Powerslide]

991.1 base vs. M4 (non-ZCP). Once again, M4 being far cheaper and way more practical still faster on 4 out of 7 tracks and faster in acceleration...

Porsche 911 Carrera (991)
B6
350 ps (345 bhp)
390 Nm (288 lb-ft)
1400 kg (3086 lbs)
250 ps / tonne
Picture of BMW M4
BMW M4
Straight six, twin turbo
431 ps (425 bhp)
550 Nm (406 lb-ft)
1545 kg (3406 lbs)
279 ps / tonne
Lap Times 7
911 Carrera M4
Vairano Handling Course 1:17.40 1:17.45
Nürburgring Nordschleife 8:02.00 7:52.00
Anglesey Coastal 1:17.80 1:19.20
Tsukuba 1:05.44 1:04.80
Hockenheim Short 1:13.10 1:12.60
Autocar Wet Handling Track 1:13.80 1:25.70
Autocar Dry Handling Track 1:14.20 1:12.50
Performance
911 Carrera M4
Top speed 293 kph (182 mph) 280 kph (174 mph)
0 - 80 kph 3.1 s 3.2 s
0 - 100 kph 4.3 s 4.0 s
0 - 180 kph 11.8 s 10.5 s
0 - 200 kph 17.1 s 12.9 s
0 - 60 mph 4.2 s 3.7 s
0 - 100 mph 9.7 s 8.5 s
0 - 150 mph 26.0 s 20.6 s
Est. 1/8 mile 8.3 s @ 92.6 mph 8.1 s @ 95.7 mph
1/4 mile 12.4 s @ 115.0 mph 12.0 s @ 119.3 mph
1000 m 22.5 s @ 236.0 kph 21.8 s
Est. 100 - 200 kph 12.8 s 9.5 s
70 mph - 0 47 m (153 ft) 46 m (150 ft)
Summary
911 Carrera M4
Track Performance 682 658
Straight line speed 989 1276
Total 1671 1935

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Not at all worked up. The time doesn't jive with EVERY other test whether thanks a big track or a smaller track. The Ring or MRLS being two examples of such where the 991.2S easily beats even the GTS.
Additionally, the 718S beat the M3 competition. I don't think that makes sense the 718S would beat the 991.2S either. I'd ideally put the lap times of the 718 and M3 close with the edge to the 718 but the 911 is much faster than both.
Again, I showed you many different tracks and they prove the 991.2S is faster than an M4 GTS. The M4 GTS is faster than any other m3/4 so therefore the 991.2S as I have also proven is faster than any m3/4 version they can make.
You still didn't offer up an explanation as to why an M4 GTS is slower in EVERY track test vs a basic Carrera S even though the GTS had a big advantage in tires, hp and torque.
My thing is this. If you're going to make blanket statement you'd better have the data to back it up. You clearly don't given you can answer why a Carrera S beats an M4 GTS and all the other tests I've shown have even the old 991.1S and even base 991.1 beating the M3/4 in nearly every comparison there is out there.

See my posts above. Appears that you are also guilty of cherry-picking times between a mid-rear engined car vs. a sedan-based car of far lower cost and far greater practicality...

Seriously - for the 500-billionth time - nobody doubts that Porsche makes a fantastic car - I've driven the 991.1 GT3 on the track several times and it's amazing. But Jesus - for the type of car and price it is - the current-gen M3/M4 are great accomplishments. I just think it's so strange that you constantly go out of your way to circle-jerk Porsche every chance you get... on a BMW forum nonetheless.

You should really go onto a Porsche forum where you can converse with people with more similar vehicles than those here. Why are you even here anyway...????

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

991.1 base vs. M4 (non-ZCP). Once again, M4 being far cheaper and way more practical still faster on 4 out of 7 tracks and faster in acceleration...

Porsche 911 Carrera (991)
B6
350 ps (345 bhp)
390 Nm (288 lb-ft)
1400 kg (3086 lbs)
250 ps / tonne
Picture of BMW M4
BMW M4
Straight six, twin turbo
431 ps (425 bhp)
550 Nm (406 lb-ft)
1545 kg (3406 lbs)
279 ps / tonne
Lap Times 7
911 Carrera M4
Vairano Handling Course 1:17.40 1:17.45
Nürburgring Nordschleife 8:02.00 7:52.00
Anglesey Coastal 1:17.80 1:19.20
Tsukuba 1:05.44 1:04.80
Hockenheim Short 1:13.10 1:12.60
Autocar Wet Handling Track 1:13.80 1:25.70
Autocar Dry Handling Track 1:14.20 1:12.50
Performance
911 Carrera M4
Top speed 293 kph (182 mph) 280 kph (174 mph)
0 - 80 kph 3.1 s 3.2 s
0 - 100 kph 4.3 s 4.0 s
0 - 180 kph 11.8 s 10.5 s
0 - 200 kph 17.1 s 12.9 s
0 - 60 mph 4.2 s 3.7 s
0 - 100 mph 9.7 s 8.5 s
0 - 150 mph 26.0 s 20.6 s
Est. 1/8 mile 8.3 s @ 92.6 mph 8.1 s @ 95.7 mph
1/4 mile 12.4 s @ 115.0 mph 12.0 s @ 119.3 mph
1000 m 22.5 s @ 236.0 kph 21.8 s
Est. 100 - 200 kph 12.8 s 9.5 s
70 mph - 0 47 m (153 ft) 46 m (150 ft)
Summary
911 Carrera M4
Track Performance 682 658
Straight line speed 989 1276
Total 1671 1935

The fact that a little 350 hp 3200 lb 911 puts down the times it does is impressive. Just look at power to weight between the two. M3/4 are 8.4 and the base 991 9.3. That's an enormous gap where the 911 shouldn't be close based on that.
Interestingly enough, a base 991.2 and an M4 competition have power to weight of 8.7 and 8.1, respctively, yet the 991 is faster in straight and much faster on track.
Porsche could easily drop a 4 door to put down much better performance than anything in the M3/4 segment (like they did the Panamera segment), and hopefully they do someday. Making a quick practical car is nothing special...again, the Panamera turbo puts down supercar times and plenty of practical cars and SUVs perform well.
The laws of supply and demand seem to escape people around here. They're going to sell 80-100k M3/4 yet will only sell maybe one 911 for every 3 or 4 M3/4 sold. Wonder why it's more expensive still? Quality is another. Those things don't come cheap.

BTW I've always had a passion for M products for being good overall cars. I just think my picture of them isn't so rosy I look beyond everything else.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

See my posts above. Appears that you are also guilty of cherry-picking times between a mid-rear engined car vs. a sedan-based car of far lower cost and far greater practicality...

Seriously - for the 500-billionth time - nobody doubts that Porsche makes a fantastic car - I've driven the 991.1 GT3 on the track several times and it's amazing. But Jesus - for the type of car and price it is - the current-gen M3/M4 are great accomplishments. I just think it's so strange that you constantly go out of your way to circle-jerk Porsche every chance you get... on a BMW forum nonetheless.

You should really go onto a Porsche forum where you can converse with people with more similar vehicles than those here. Why are you even here anyway...????

+1

I actually find all of this M3/M4 versus 991 comparison hilarious. The debate usually comes down to lap times when the vast of majority of owners will never track their cars. And the fact that a $110-140k 991.2 can get around most tracks faster than a $70-80k M3/M4 should be expected given the price delta. Frankly, it should not be as close as it is.

But who cares.

I've owned both a 981 Cayman S and a 991.1 Carrera S. Great cars, but expensive and lacking in practicality for road use. I much prefer my M4. The fact that it has a usable back seat and a good sized trunk, yet has the performance capacity and refinement it does for the price are amazing in my view.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

+1

I actually find all of this M3/M4 versus 991 comparison hilarious. The debate usually comes down to lap times when the vast of majority of owners will never track their cars. And the fact that a $110-140k 991.2 can get around most tracks faster than a $70-80k M3/M4 should be expected given the price delta. Frankly, it should not be as close as it is.

But who cares.

I've owned both a 981 Cayman S and a 991.1 Carrera S. Great cars, but expensive and lacking in practicality for road use. I much prefer my M4. The fact that it has a usable back seat and a good sized trunk, yet has the performance capacity and refinement it does for the price are amazing in my view.

Close? On the Ring the 991.2S (summer tires) is 7:34 vs 7:54 for the M4. The M4 GTS on cup tires 7:37. It's not close (which by your statement makes me think you know little about track times). If you've read my posts, you'll see the no matter the track, 135k M4 GTS can't touch a 991.2S despite the advantages it has, including tires. How do you explain the delta in the M4 GTS having cup tires, 80 more hp, 80 more torque and getting embarrassed by a basic Carrera (and for less money to boot)?

Like everyone else, I'm sure you'll deflect or more likely not even address the question but there's no denying that for the price the M4 GTS doesn't deliver (and it performs leagues better than any other M3/4).

I HAVE both now, and the 991 is a far more dynamic car that really is an experience. My m4 is good for practicality, but being the fun driver's car the 911 is, it is not.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Close? On the Ring the 991.2S (summer tires) is 7:34 vs 7:54 for the M4. The M4 GTS on cup tires 7:37. It's not close (which by your statement makes me think you know little about track times). If you've read my posts, you'll see the no matter the track, 135k M4 GTS can't touch a 991.2S despite the advantages it has, including tires. How do you explain the delta in the M4 GTS having cup tires, 80 more hp, 80 more torque and getting embarrassed by a basic Carrera (and for less money to boot)?

Like everyone else, I'm sure you'll deflect or more likely not even address the question but there's no denying that for the price the M4 GTS doesn't deliver (and it performs leagues better than any other M3/4).

I HAVE both now, and the 991 is a far more dynamic car that really is an experience. My m4 is good for practicality, but being the fun driver's car the 911 is, it is not.

As stated above, I could care less about lap times. And I was not referring to the M4 GTS either. And I agree the 911 is a great, dynamic 'drivers car', whatever that is, as it means different things to different people.

The point is that the 991.2 is 25-50% more expensive than a non-GTS M4 (depending on base Carrera or S) and it should be faster around a track given it is a rather impractical sports car with several drawbacks that for some reason get ignored as the conversation always reverts back to lap times which for most of us are irrelevant.

And why does such an overt Porsche advocate spend so much time on a BMW forum talking about how the 25%-50% more expensive car is so superior in his opinion? I find it comical.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

As stated above, I could care less about lap times. And I was not referring to the M4 GTS either. And I agree the 911 is a great, dynamic 'drivers car', whatever that is, as it means different things to different people.

The point is that the 991.2 is 25-50% more expensive than a non-GTS M4 (depending on base Carrera or S) and it should be faster around a track given it is a rather impractical sports car with several drawbacks that for some reason get ignored as the conversation always reverts back to lap times which for most of us are irrelevant.

And why does such an overt Porsche advocate spend so much time on a BMW forum talking about how the 25%-50% more expensive car is so superior in his opinion? I find it comical.

Couldn't have stated it better - it's downright strange how he feels such an irresistibly-strong and never-ending compulsion in this regard - must be an incredibly lonely person with no friends whatsoever... Anyway, always enjoy this forum with the exception of his completely obnoxious and unsolicited posts...

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

The fact that a little 350 hp 3200 lb 911 puts down the times it does is impressive. Just look at power to weight between the two. M3/4 are 8.4 and the base 991 9.3. That's an enormous gap where the 911 shouldn't be close based on that.
Interestingly enough, a base 991.2 and an M4 competition have power to weight of 8.7 and 8.1, respctively, yet the 991 is faster in straight and much faster on track.
Porsche could easily drop a 4 door to put down much better performance than anything in the M3/4 segment (like they did the Panamera segment), and hopefully they do someday. Making a quick practical car is nothing special...again, the Panamera turbo puts down supercar times and plenty of practical cars and SUVs perform well.
The laws of supply and demand seem to escape people around here. They're going to sell 80-100k M3/4 yet will only sell maybe one 911 for every 3 or 4 M3/4 sold. Wonder why it's more expensive still? Quality is another. Those things don't come cheap.

BTW I've always had a passion for M products for being good overall cars. I just think my picture of them isn't so rosy I look beyond everything else.

It's not just power to weight - it's also weight distribution front/rear, weight over the drive wheels, center of gravity, polar moment of inertia, etc., all of which favor the entirely impractical 911 which was designed as a sports car from the ground up, versus a car that has to serve as a four door sedan that can seat 5 people and have a full trunk, a station wagon, etc., with a higher center of gravity, less weight on drive wheels, less-ideal front/rear weight distribution, etc. and that costs wayyyyy less. And guess what? The 991.1 should have beaten the base or "civic" M3/M4 based upon those criteria 7 times out of 7, and yet it only squeaked out 3 out of 7 - pretty embarrassing for the 991.1...

And for the M4GTS? Again - given its roots and inherent shortcomings as stated above - the fact that it does as well as it does is still impressive. How incredibly ignorant of you to actually think that the M4 GTS should match or exceed the newest or highest-performing 911s, which are a no-compromise, ground-up designed sports car with none of the shortcomings stated above. What do you have to say about the Corvette GS putting down laptimes equal to or better than 911 variants costing double or close to triple the amount? Does that make those 911's bad cars? Of course not. So please - at least make some attempt to compare apples-to-apples here instead of your continued, unsolicited apples-to-oranges, cherry-picked and self-serving "examples" here (better yet - if you love talking about Porsche nonstop, why wouldn't you do that on a Porsche forum)? My last question is the one that all of us have asked, and yet you have continually refused to answer it.

[///Pip]

I think the fact that the M3/4 can even keep up (and in some cases even beat) the 911.2s on both straight line drag and track, is more than good enough !!

The Price and practicality of the ///M cars must also count in overall rating.

Both are great cars ... but pound for pound (GBP not LBS) ... ///M FTW

[RIP1981]

Apart from Media and professional Racing Drivers, who put better times in the 991 in nearly every test:

I drove my first laps in the 991.1 4S on the ring.

Just 4 laps, only randomly one laptime:

8:40 BTG on winter tyres.

Far slower than professional or quick drivers.

But after about 10 laps on uhp summer tyres in the M3, the best I could get was just below 8:55.

So for me personally and my driving abilities, the 991 is immensely quicker.

I am pretty sure I can get below 8:30 on summer tyres in the 911.

Reasons for me:
1. Traction out of corners. I can go full throttle without any hesitation. The M3 often started to dance or cut the Throttle in MDM.

2. Generally PSM >>> MDM. The implementation of ESP is much better in the 991 than in the F80.

To be really quick in the F80 you have to switch ESP off and play wirh the lack of traction on the limit.

3. PDK on Sport/Sport Plus is much better than DKG.
Again you have to shift manually to be quick.

I did that but didn't dare to switch off ESP completely on the Nordschleife.

4. Cornering feels quicker and lighter in the 911.

Tyres overheat pretty quick in the F80. Second Lap was rubbish.

911 brakes and tyres more constant.
Only first lap in F80 really fast.

Regards
RIP

[Indie4]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

See my posts above. Appears that you are also guilty of cherry-picking times between a mid-rear engined car vs. a sedan-based car of far lower cost and far greater practicality...

Seriously - for the 500-billionth time - nobody doubts that Porsche makes a fantastic car - I've driven the 991.1 GT3 on the track several times and it's amazing. But Jesus - for the type of car and price it is - the current-gen M3/M4 are great accomplishments. I just think it's so strange that you constantly go out of your way to circle-jerk Porsche every chance you get... on a BMW forum nonetheless.

You should really go onto a Porsche forum where you can converse with people with more similar vehicles than those here. Why are you even here anyway...????

This! OP is clearly a keyboard warrior and I don't believe he owns both cars. I am yet to find an owner of both who constantly puts down the M3/4 especially on a BMW Forum. He also forgot to mention that the GTS is 2.6 secs quicker around the Magny-Cours short circuit than the 991.2 S and his only come back was this Professional driver obviously can't drive!

Once puberty kicks in, starts to shave and have to work to buy these cars he will realise that you take everything that these journalists say with a pinch of salt as there are so many variables. After all these are road cars and most don't track them anyway. I certainly wouldn't. More purposeful things for that.

In the mean time he should keep saving the pocket money for the weekly bus trip to the local Porsche dealer where he can have his gratification and quote all the track times to the Salesmen. Otherwise I might have to tell his mammy he is trolling again!

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Indie4

This! OP is clearly a keyboard warrior and I don't believe he owns both cars. I am yet to find an owner of both who constantly puts down the M3/4 especially on a BMW Forum. He also forgot to mention that the GTS is 2.6 secs quicker around the Magny-Cours short circuit than the 991.2 S and his only come back was this Professional driver obviously can't drive!

Once puberty kicks in, starts to shave and have to work to buy these cars he will realise that you take everything that these journalists say with a pinch of salt as there are so many variables. After all these are road cars and most don't track them anyway. I certainly wouldn't. More purposeful things for that.

In the mean time he should keep saving the pocket money for the weekly bus trip to the local Porsche dealer where he can have his gratification and quote all the track times to the Salesmen. Otherwise I might have to tell his mammy he is trolling again!

Personally attacking me just shows who the immature pre puberty one of us is.

The GTS is also wearing CUP tires. The 991.2 wears summer tires. You clearly don't know the difference. Maybe you should actually make it out to the track one day and try seeing what the difference is.


And the PTS color is dark olive metallic (looks black in low lighting and in the sun is reminiscent of an emerald) if you're wondering. And yes, it has ceramic brakes.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Couldn't have stated it better - it's downright strange how he feels such an irresistibly-strong and never-ending compulsion in this regard - must be an incredibly lonely person with no friends whatsoever... Anyway, always enjoy this forum with the exception of his completely obnoxious and unsolicited posts...

You can think what you want. There's just too much downright delusional commentary here. Again, I like my M4, it's a pretty good car overall and looks quite good when you put some money into it to properly set it up. Otherwise you couldn't be further from the truth.
Actually most of my friends drive M cars with a few exceptions except they don't drone on thinking it's some kind of worldly car.

Unlike you I won't personally attack you because I actually use the cognitive portion of my brain and don't get bogged down in lower level thinking.