2019 911 4GTS twice as good as M3?

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by KevinM

First, drive the GTS. Second, consider a slightly used version. Porsche's option system drives me nuts, so if I ever buy one I think will buy a CPO car.

In general, I agree with everyone else in terms of economies of scale. Kind of like with wine. Once you are at the $50/bottle mark, doubling or tripling it will get you a better wine, but rarely one that is three times better.

GL!

Not that I regularly drink wines that cost hundreds of dollars, but totally agree that the sweet spot for good wine is around $50.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

There is a problem. First you need to find a GT3 allocation and second you need to find one without a markup. Odds of that are slim to none.

Pre-owned GT3 (2015/2016) are selling for less than a new GTS. I'd take the GT3 for the comparable price.

As someone who's hunted a GT3 allocation in the past, it's difficult but not impossible. Granted you need to be quite early to the game if you want to avoid a markup.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by ItIsChrisM

Pre-owned GT3 (2015/2016) are selling for less than a new GTS. I'd take the GT3 for the comparable price.

As someone who's hunted a GT3 allocation in the past, it's difficult but not impossible. Granted you need to be quite early to the game if you want to avoid a markup.

A quick query nationally of GT3s on Cars.com shows even those years are more expensive or at a minimum, evenly priced with a new, well-optioned GTS. What metric are you using as prices for a GTS?

[Nikolas]

i still haven't driven the F80, but odd to hear Porsche quality being so high comparably. I've owned quite a few Porsche cars and still own 2. I can tell you they do have some quality issues at times. The old hand built cars (993 and older) definitely have a level of quality the new ones do not. Heck, my 991 GT3 left me stranded in the middle of no where thanks to the main coolant hose popping off and spilling coolant everywhere. My 996TT had little things break and trim pieces fall apart. My 964 though, still has no creaks or rattles and its a 27 year old convertible.

So pretty curious how the F80 will be.

The 991 GTS is a wonderful car. I've driven it on track back to back with several other P cars. Sounds great and handles beautifully, but I can't comprehend how it could possibly be twice the car........and I am a PCAR fan boy!

[JAhmed]

Originally Posted by Jaymax85

Agree to disagree

I am unbiased and think Porsche is excellent at everything.

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by JAhmed

I am unbiased and think Porsche is excellent at everything.

A/s/l?

[JAhmed]

Originally Posted by Jaymax85

A/s/l?

Creepy

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

A quick query nationally of GT3s on Cars.com shows even those years are more expensive or at a minimum, evenly priced with a new, well-optioned GTS. What metric are you using as prices for a GTS?

You sure you looked at the correct years? My own quick cars.com query shows 8 2015 GT3s under $130k. Even more if you include 2014s which I won't. Have at it.

Base price of a 911 4 GTS (what OP referenced) is $127k before any options. Evenly mildly optioned, $140k is probably about standard. The majority of 2015 GT3s on that cars.com listing are under $140k.

Really no value in this argument, but you can definitely find 2015 GT3s for the same price as a new stripper or even mildly optioned GTS.

[48Laws]

Where did he reference the GTS 4? A new one would skyrocket the price but the 4 isn’t comparable to the GT3 at all. Also, a new, unmolested manual GTS will most certainly be more attractive than a 3 year old GT3 in some cases. I don’t think folks were that pleased with the ‘15 PDK.


Edit: My bad. I see the description in the thread title. Lol

[einscot]

before this gets into a shouting match - couple points of reference. first - i refuse to drive anything that doesn't involve a stick shift and me operating a clutch with my foot - so looking at 3 year old GT3s is not an option. if given one as a present, i would sell it immediately, such is my disdain for PDK or DCT vehicles. second - i like the carrera 4 GTS (aka all wheel drive). i've seen people keep mentioning the GT4. i can't physically drive the cayman GT4, and it's not something i'm looking into regardless. i mistakenly labeled it with my thread title, my bad. no such thing as a GTS 4s (duh)

i'm going back to the porsche dealer today to see what my final spec'd model would run and then probably go from there.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Where did he reference the GTS 4? A new one would skyrocket the price but the 4 isn't comparable to the GT3 at all. Also, a new, unmolested manual GTS will most certainly be more attractive than a 3 year old GT3 is some cases. I don't think folks were that pleased with the '15 PDK.

I think most were pleased with the match up of the GT3 with the PDK. It was and still is the best performance combination for that car. I agree a manual would be more fun in general, but on a track, the limits are so high, you didn't miss the involvement of three pedals.

[Circuit Hunter]

The 991.2 is an amazing car but I would not spec it in AWD. It’s so balanced, light and nimble as is in rwd trim, I feel it would nueter the car to some degree.

I’d save some coin and go T. My dad just got one and it’s magic.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by Circuit Hunter

The 991.2 is an amazing car but I would not spec it in AWD. It's so balanced, light and nimble as is in rwd trim, I feel it would nueter the car to some degree.

I'd save some coin and go T. My dad just got one and it's magic.

It's AWD. Does it feel neutered?

[uniqueMR]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I’m on my 2nd GTS and 3rd 991. I’ve currently own an F80 and had an e92 as well. Yes! The GTS Is twice as good. More organic driving experience. More presence. More prestige. Dealerships know what you paid and they do their best to keep you happy. Porsche is what BMW could never be, given the demographics and sales strategy of both brands. This car handles tremendously well. Quality is top notch too. It’s worth every dollar spent. The performance feels attached to the car as oppose to an M that feels modified to some degree, from a 3/4 series lineup.

Very true

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by einscot

before this gets into a shouting match - couple points of reference. first - i refuse to drive anything that doesn't involve a stick shift and me operating a clutch with my foot - so looking at 3 year old GT3s is not an option. if given one as a present, i would sell it immediately, such is my disdain for PDK or DCT vehicles. second - i like the carrera 4 GTS (aka all wheel drive). i've seen people keep mentioning the GT4. i can't physically drive the cayman GT4, and it's not something i'm looking into regardless. i mistakenly labeled it with my thread title, my bad. no such thing as a GTS 4s (duh)

i'm going back to the porsche dealer today to see what my final spec'd model would run and then probably go from there.

I take it that you like the wider rear, RWS and PDCC in GTS? Otherwise, there are plenty of C4s manual for around 90k's used. The only diff engine wise is GTS has bigger turbos. A tune or even piggyback would take a Carrera to GTS power for $1,200.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by einscot

before this gets into a shouting match - couple points of reference. first - i refuse to drive anything that doesn't involve a stick shift and me operating a clutch with my foot - so looking at 3 year old GT3s is not an option. if given one as a present, i would sell it immediately, such is my disdain for PDK or DCT vehicles. second - i like the carrera 4 GTS (aka all wheel drive). i've seen people keep mentioning the GT4. i can't physically drive the cayman GT4, and it's not something i'm looking into regardless. i mistakenly labeled it with my thread title, my bad. no such thing as a GTS 4s (duh)

i'm going back to the porsche dealer today to see what my final spec'd model would run and then probably go from there.

I think people are having separate conversations on your thread

I'd recommend your first 911 be RWD. The different driving characteristics of the RE/RWD platform, and the pleasure in learning how to tame it, is the essence of 911 ownership imho. Beyond that, it's hard to go wrong with the options. Assuming you're not willing to pay msrp + markup for a 991.2 GT3, I'd look into the Carrera T as a more focused driving machine. That would be my second choice. Or the GTS in RWD you're looking at is a great option for something that's slightly less sharp but a much better GT.

I'll take your word that you can't drive the GT4, but just to throw it in the mix, I'd take it over any of the 911's except the GT3

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by ItIsChrisM

Pre-owned GT3 (2015/2016) are selling for less than a new GTS. I'd take the GT3 for the comparable price.

As someone who's hunted a GT3 allocation in the past, it's difficult but not impossible. Granted you need to be quite early to the game if you want to avoid a markup.

No manual in 991.1.

[nicknaz]

To echo what others have said, you've got to love it OP.

My $0.02, get a 997 gt3

[Circuit Hunter]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

It's AWD. Does it feel neutered?

Huh? Im not following.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

To echo what others have said, you've got to love it OP.

My $0.02, get a 997 gt3

Haha. Good luck! Prices have gone up.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Haha. Good luck! Prices have gone up.

OP is taking about a new 991.2 GTS, which is around $120k?

I browsed a few ads and seems like that's a bit more than 997 gt3, so he could get one if he wanted to (probably one that already has coolant lines pinned too)

Given all of his comments about being anti PDK, figured he would appreciate the 7GT3

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by Circuit Hunter

Huh? Im not following.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

Sorry. I forgot about the new "T", and thought your were abbreviating for "turbo". My bad.