EVO magazine Issue 237: M3 ZCP vs. Alfa GQ

[KevinM]

For those of you who haven't read enough comparisons between the M3 and Alfa GQ, the latest issue of EVO has a nice comparison. EVO pretty much called it a dead heat - 4.5 stars each, with personal preference being the deciding factor.

The Alfa was 1 second quicker on the track, which the writer points out is probably due to the Alfa's R compound tires (which have a treadwear rating of 60 vs. 300 for the Michelin PSS), which were pretty much toast after the track session. To add to the growing concerns about Alfa's reliability, it seems the the electronic diff gave out on the third lap...

This was the best showing for the F80 in EVO. They have been pretty rough on the car, which I often attributed to the F8X's behavior on the cold, wet roads in England. In this comparison, the F80 finally gets it due.

I have the iPad version of EVO, so I can't post the article, but here is the conclusion:

Conclusion
Considering they are aimed at the same customer, the Alfa and BMW are distinctly different propositions. On the spectrum from comfort to sportiness they overlap to a surprisingly small degree, the Alfa at its sportiest matching the BMW at its most comfortable. So what you expect from your potent, small sports saloon will probably decide which is the one for you.

The M3 is now the car it should have been from the start. Compared with the Giulia, it’s a bit tougher at low speeds, a little less refined, but when it’s up to speed it’s superbly damped and the chassis balance is spot-on – the £3000 Competition Package is a must. It will feel too hefty for some, but it’s a thrilling car with a strong engine note and an exciting delivery that rewards revs. It looks the part, too.

The Alfa is the more nuanced car, more subtle in many ways, with a supple ride and a relaxed long-distance demeanour, yet it always steers with a directness that gives it a wonderfully agile feel. That engine delivers a big hit and works beautifully with the slick auto gearbox, though you have restricted access to its total performance and full-blooded soundtrack – some drivers simply won’t ever use Race because it turns off stability control. Even if you don’t, we wonder how long a set of those Pirellis will last. And yet, for all that, and the unsatisfactory brake feel, it’s hard not to be charmed by the Alfa.

[domino_z]

Another comparo, another broken Alfa

One of our local mags took one to Tasmania for a drivers car of the year test, it was the only car out of 13 that shit itself

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Another comparo, another broken Alfa

One of our local mags took one to Tasmania for a drivers car of the year test, it was the only car out of 13 that shit itself

Poo

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Another comparo, another broken Alfa

One of our local mags took one to Tasmania for a drivers car of the year test, it was the only car out of 13 that shit itself

More poor quality concerns from Road & Track:

"Of course, our Giulia was the most stereotypical Alfa Romeo you could imagine. It was red. The cover for the headlight washer fell off before it arrived. The first time I pushed the button to adjust the seat height, my finger actually pushed the button through the seats so it dangled by a wire near the floor. The radio won't let you seek through certain stations but will let you tune to it directly, like it's keeping the 60s on 6 secret. It will also let you set the same station as a favorite multiple times, for reasons I don't understand. These are quirks and problems that wouldn't really be cool on a $20,000 car. Our test car, with options, came in at $87,000."

The article was generally positive about how the car drives though, but poor quality continues to be a big concern and the main reason why I won't buy Alfas.

Now if you can combine Lexus level quality with Alfa driving dynamics, you'd have a real M3 beater. Until then, M3 is still top dog in my books.

[ASAP]

I dont know if anyone saw the recent articles around the web about Gulia sales... basically they are not close to meeting expectations...

I honestly think the car is a long way off of having the brand panache that BMW does in the USA, its overpriced in comparison and the reliability is a final death blow.

[domino_z]

yeh same here, there's quite a few stock at dealers, both qv and regular car

the quality is just acceptable for the price they are charging on a 2.0L when you factor in uniqueness, design etc, but i'd never spend QV money on one - and this is from a true alfisti with a 4C and 8C

[trey100]

I think the biggest issue is that in my opinion it doesn't have the same presence as the M3. But based on what I am reading they have the dynamics down so just need to get the quality up and personally for me tweak the design a bit.

[shamun160]

From my view, Alfa's biggest issue is their dealer network.

My M3 has had its share of hiccups that have required attention:

• Never ending coffee can crushing from heat shields, despite multiple service calls
• Multiple "Chassis Stabilization" alarms
• Shredded main serpentine belt

All of this has been handled reasonably well with my dealer who I have a good relationship with. If that ever sours there are 3 other dealers in Pittsburgh to pick from.

I started conversations with our only Alfa dealer in Pittsburgh about buying a QV they had on order. When things finally culminated in me bringing the M3 and my checkbook, it went off the rails.
After a long song and dance they finally presented an offer sheet with an $8K market adjustment on the top line. I got up and walked out. I am not sure what market they are following, but they could have revealed their ambitious pricing in one of the dozens of emails and texts leading up to my visit.
To top that all off they are trying to sell these things out of the used car lot of a Jeep dealer and they were playing the typical multiple hats negotiation game of years gone by.

I can’t remember a car buying experience as sleazy as this whole thing felt for a long long time, let alone on a $85K vehicle.

They have tried to mend the fence, but I will not buy an Alfa regardless of price or discount. Alfa had a chance to bring me on board and I was willing to take a risk, but I just see myself having this thing always in the shop and fighting to get a fiat 500 a loaner at the used car shop.

At least the Ford dealer is close and there many of those to pick from.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by shamun160

From my view, Alfa's biggest issue is their dealer network.

My M3 has had its share of hiccups that have required attention:

• Never ending coffee can crushing from heat shields, despite multiple service calls
• Multiple "Chassis Stabilization" alarms
• Shredded main serpentine belt

All of this has been handled reasonably well with my dealer who I have a good relationship with. If that ever sours there are 3 other dealers in Pittsburgh to pick from.

I started conversations with our only Alfa dealer in Pittsburgh about buying a QV they had on order. When things finally culminated in me bringing the M3 and my checkbook, it went off the rails.
After a long song and dance they finally presented an offer sheet with an $8K market adjustment on the top line. I got up and walked out. I am not sure what market they are following, but they could have revealed their ambitious pricing in one of the dozens of emails and texts leading up to my visit.
To top that all off they are trying to sell these things out of the used car lot of a Jeep dealer and they were playing the typical multiple hats negotiation game of years gone by.

I can’t remember a car buying experience as sleazy as this whole thing felt for a long long time, let alone on a $85K vehicle.

They have tried to mend the fence, but I will not buy an Alfa regardless of price or discount. Alfa had a chance to bring me on board and I was willing to take a risk, but I just see myself having this thing always in the shop and fighting to get a fiat 500 a loaner at the used car shop.

At least the Ford dealer is close and there many of those to pick from.

This is infuriating... the old games aren't here today... and if any dealer still thinks they are, they won't be around long.

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by ASAP

This is infuriating... the old games aren't here today... and if any dealer still thinks they are, they won't be around long.

What's interesting are the new games that have been employed by the dealerships in attempts to mitigate the squeeze from the manufactures. Even more interesting are some of the methods are not even theirs in the making. Trucar for example. 'the average selling price of this car is $xx,xxx''... Lol what a joke.

[stevehifi]

I saw a regular alfa giulia (not QV) on display at an outdoor mall and I'm not surprised that sales of this car will struggle over time. It's a very polarizing car in terms of looks and much smaller (interior) then I thought. The quality also looks very - domestic.

Agree also with dealer support, after all it's FIAT-Chrysler that we're talking about so yes you will get the old-school sales approach giving you the typical "it's the only one we have and we want $10k over sticker" meanwhile they probably can't even explain what one single button or feature on the car does, because they are morons.

Hate to say it, but reputation says alot when buying an expensive car like this.. unless it truly is a remarkable outlier (better value, more reliable, more features, incredible performance) and we know it's not - then you are better off with a german brand.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Another comparo, another broken Alfa

One of our local mags took one to Tasmania for a drivers car of the year test, it was the only car out of 13 that shit itself

I think every review I've read of the GQ shows it breaking down.

It is insane.

With stock tires it craps the bed in a few laps? WTF

[ASAP]

Everytime I drive an F80, I notice the same things...

It has numerous faults but overall its an incredible car...

Note I have only driven a 2015 DCT w passive suspension but here are what I always find as faults-

1) the sound... its simply awful and almost nothing can fix it
2) Steering, its ok at best... the electronic rack is weird and has this really odd tendency to want to recenter itself and jump out of your hands
3) the suspension is quite crashy with the passive setup, on perfect roads its awesome, once you have holes, it really falls apart
4) traction - they could have done quite a bit better here

Outside of those items, which may already all be remedied w the comp pack, I think its still by far the best car in its class.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Note I have only driven a 2015 DCT w passive suspension but here are what I always find as faults-

3) the suspension is quite crashy with the passive setup, on perfect roads its awesome, once you have holes, it really falls apart
4) traction - they could have done quite a bit better here.

Did you have 18s or 19s? I have a GUESS bmw certified the passive suspension with 18s (my car was on 18s + passive and was fine) and just slapped on 19s for ///Markerting purposes. Same thing with my old e89 z4 with crappily tuned adaptive suspension. It was so much better and less crashy with 18s than 19s

[M4FOREVER]

Hallelujah

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Everytime I drive an F80, I notice the same things...

It has numerous faults but overall its an incredible car...

Note I have only driven a 2015 DCT w passive suspension but here are what I always find as faults-

1) the sound... its simply awful and almost nothing can fix it
2) Steering, its ok at best... the electronic rack is weird and has this really odd tendency to want to recenter itself and jump out of your hands
3) the suspension is quite crashy with the passive setup, on perfect roads its awesome, once you have holes, it really falls apart
4) traction - they could have done quite a bit better here

Outside of those items, which may already all be remedied w the comp pack, I think its still by far the best car in its class.

I think the comp pack fixes these to the extent that they can be on this platform. The sport exhaust on the comp pack sounds great. In this EVO review, the sound is actually praised (I can't remember a review that praised the F80's sound before!). Steering is Ok. It's certainly not a hydraulic rack, but I think BMW's electronic steering is improving. I don't experience the self-centering phenomenon you describe. Suspension is acceptable for a sports sedan but it could be more supple in comfort mode. I take full blame on that one given I opted for the 20 inch wheels. Traction is actually very good with comp pack, better than I expected. That said, physics is physics and you've got to respect RWD and 444 hp/406 lb-ft...

I certainly agree that this is the best (and one of the few left) RWD manual sports sedan on the market. I don't feel as connected to the car as I do in my M5 (or Z4M, but that is not a fair comparison), but I think that would be be case for me in any new car.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Did you have 18s or 19s? I have a GUESS bmw certified the passive suspension with 18s (my car was on 18s + passive and was fine) and just slapped on 19s for ///Markerting purposes. Same thing with my old e89 z4 with crappily tuned adaptive suspension. It was so much better and less crashy with 18s than 19s

My car has 19s and passive and it is just fine.