M3 vs Tesla S - My dilemma

[M4 LF]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Sound definitely adds to the experience, but how important are the sounds she makes when she is in bed with you?

I would trade the sounds for the speed of getting there....

Wait, are we talking about cars?

If she's hot, I rather take my time getting there ...with all the noises and stuffs

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Go do some pulls to 80 in the Tesla , then do it again , then do it a 3rd time....oh wait you can't
'Nuff said

This is completely untrue.

I test drove a 90D for 24 hours. Never charged once. Did multiple pulls to triple digits, back to back, no dropoff in performance.

Don't believe everything you read.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by RobbyMack

M3 is a sports car that can double as a family hauler. The tesla is a family hauler that does an impersonation of a sports car off the line. It's pretty much a bland sedan after that.

Also untrue.

Don't get me wrong, the Tesla is heavy, and it's not a true sports sedan like an M3. It has its drawbacks.

However, the steering is razor sharp, no lag, with a fast ratio. The car has little lean because of the low COG. Intelligent AWD means great traction, especially out of corners. Ans one thing that cannot be overlooked.....the way it accelerates.

No, I'm not talking about ludicrous mode, or even off the line acceleration at all. I'm talking about while driving. The car's response to pedal input is INSTANT. It makes even the sharpest N/A engines feel laggy. When you move your foot, the car accelerates, hard. For an enthusiast this is no light point. It has to be driven to be experienced.

The autopilot is really, truly, outstanding. Do you ever drive in traffic? If so, autopilot and relax. You can turn it off when you want to turn up the wick. It's optional but phenomenal on commutes or it traffic.

Yes, the sound is lacking and that's pretty important to an enthusiast. The central display is brilliant in its use to me, but may not be for everyone. And it's certainly heavy. And range, yes, it is not a perfect car for sure. Price...doesn't feel it's price. These are very serious drawbacks.

But if you don't think it's a true driver's car, I would say drive one and reconsider. The above is based on my personal observations driving the car. But check what Guido has to say. If you watch him, you know driver involvement is his number one priority. And for him the Tesla shines.

[Cameron.mac]

I've driven a P90D Model S and had the chance to launch it several times. The initial wow factor of the acceleration quickly fades as it almost becomes nauseating, like being on a roller coaster too many times in a row. All the other fun aspects of sports cars beyond the acceleration seem to be absent. With no exhaust sound and shifting gears, the car becomes extremely boring extremely fast.

With that said, I actually love Tesla and what they are doing, but to me it does not compare to the M3 in an enthusiast perspective. Also to be noted, it is upwards of 140k for the P90D, literally twice as much as a standard F80/F82. The 70k base Model S loses almost all the performance benefits.

[nicknaz]

Have you guys seen the Tesla article about the model X doors not closing/opening, infotainment sluggishness, etc?

BMW/Porsche/MB would be pilloried if a new car couldn't do something as basic as close and latch the door, or open the door whenever needed

[zer0cool]

Model S doesn't have the problems of the Model X. Model X is a totally new car, so some problems in the first year is very much expected. I assume most of those problems will be solved.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by zer0cool

Model X is a totally new car, so some problems in the first year is very much expected. I assume most of those problems will be solved.

so, door not opening and closing is acceptable 1st year problem now?


would love to see how our forums react if an F8X door did not latch closed, or if the door handle didn't work to open the door

[zer0cool]

Unfortunately they over-engineered the door. Since it's the first of its kind, there are bound to be problems. Not really comparable with traditional doors. Of course I would prefer traditional doors. I think the falcon wing doors are meaningless and kind of a failure. I guess enough people like it and are so far putting up with it.

But still need to consider it in perspective. This is not a regular 1st year problem. It's a one of a kind problem for a one of a kind door. That's a much harder problem to resolve. Maybe they never solve it; if so they ll have to redesign the Model X.

Or maybe Model X ends up being kind of an exotic car... it has lots of problems, but the people who buy it put up with it, since they have other cars to travel in anyways and feel the coolness of its one of a kind doors are worth the trouble of frequent problems and repairs...

[shahano]

If you want track toy and fun canyon, then M3, if not get tesla. The fact that you are asking makes me think you would enjoy the Tesla more.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Cameron.mac

I've driven a P90D Model S and had the chance to launch it several times. The initial wow factor of the acceleration quickly fades as it almost becomes nauseating, like being on a roller coaster too many times in a row.

Acceleration is nauseating!??


OK, gradma ...

Originally Posted by Cameron.mac

All the other fun aspects of sports cars beyond the acceleration seem to be absent. With no exhaust sound and shifting gears, the car becomes extremely boring extremely fast.

How about Tesla's handling (check)?
Breaking (check)?
Cool tech (check ^ 2)?

Sound and shifting gears is fluff.
My M3 has ASS and DCT, and I love them both.
My i3 has neither (well, it does make sounds, just weird ones), and that's cool by me too.

Next up: swap out i3 for Model 3 !

Originally Posted by Cameron.mac

With that said, I actually love Tesla and what they are doing, but to me it does not compare to the M3 in an enthusiast perspective.

True that.
Nor should anyone ever confuse a 7-series for an M3, or really compare the two.
Incidentally, Model S competes against (more like dominates) 7-series. It just also happens to out-accelerate M3, which is pretty remarkable!

a

[ixse]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Acceleration is nauseating!??


OK, gradma ...




How about Tesla's handling (check)?
Breaking (check)?
Cool tech (check ^ 2)?

Sound and shifting gears is fluff.
My M3 has ASS and DCT, and I love them both.
My i3 has neither (well, it does make sounds, just weird ones), and that's cool by me too.

Next up: swap out i3 for Model 3 !



True that.
Nor should anyone ever confuse a 7-series for an M3, or really compare the two.
Incidentally, Model S competes against (more like dominates) 7-series. It just also happens to out-accelerate M3, which is pretty remarkable!

a

Sound and shifting is fluff? Your dct still changes through gears, tesla runs ine gear. Go drive on a track and see how fun tesla is after about 3 laps. There are reasons why cars like miata and s2k still overwhelm any track events, and thats because they require driver involvement for fun.
I do agree with rest of your comments as far as tesla being fantastic car for its intended purposes, but sounds like you need to get involved in motorsports a bit more to appreciate good tranny and exhaust note.

[trey100]

C&D records performance data based on acceleration in both directions. They had to modify that with the P90D as it needed a cool down period.

Doesn't that negate it as a sports car?

The Tesla is a high tech, fast car, but I still see it as the kind of car someone buys to talk about or make a statement.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by ixse

Sound and shifting is fluff? Your dct still changes through gears, tesla runs ine gear.

I know.
I have an i3 - poor man's Tesla

BTW, it does make sounds, just not like anything you would be expecting. You easily get used to that, and enjoy them just the same.

Originally Posted by ixse

Go drive on a track and see how fun tesla is after about 3 laps.

I expect to see Model S's on track and at autoX's just about as frequently as I see 7-series. Which is about once a decade. Probably less to do with car's capabilities and everything with the type of owners they attract?


Now, I do see the potential for battery overheating on track without beefed up cooling. With proper cooling - tracking should not be a problem.
See Formula E racing series: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/autosport...paris-victory/

Originally Posted by ixse

There are reasons why cars like miata and s2k still overwhelm any track events, and thats because they require driver involvement for fun.

Fair point.
Another highly probable contributing factor is entry price.
New Miata goes for $25K. That's less than 1/2 of an M3 or a 3-series.

I almost bought a Miata about 20 years ago, but could not quite fit into it - my eye balls were exactly inline with the top of the windshield. I hear the new Miata is bigger - will probably check it out soon!

Originally Posted by ixse

I do agree with rest of your comments as far as tesla being fantastic car for its intended purposes, but sounds like you need to get involved in motorsports a bit more to appreciate good tranny and exhaust note.

I've been hitting track for about ~20 years.
Always can do more!

Originally Posted by trey100

C&D records performance data based on acceleration in both directions. They had to modify that with the P90D as it needed a cool down period.

Doesn't that negate it as a sports car?

Yes and no.
I don't think anyone who bought Model S was expecting a sports car. Any more than 760iL owners did

So no, it's not a sports car.
Just a bitching fast sedan!

As to cooling challenges - agreed. But:
a). consider the points stated earlier.
b). the same argument applies to every 3-series other than M3/4, that goes into limp mode on track after ~10 laps (due to inadequate cooling).

Originally Posted by trey100

The Tesla is a high tech, fast car, but I still see it as the kind of car someone buys to talk about or make a statement.

Agreed.

a

[Hoosierlegend]

It should be noted that the Tesla doesn't actually achieve near it's stated range when being driven at high speeds (75 mph or higher). It's not even that close.

If you drive long distances regularly, I personally don't think the Tesla is a reasonable choice. They need to increase the range (probably at least double it).

If it's known that the car will be driven nearly exclusively for short distances, get whatever you want. The Tesla is super quick but I do think lacks the more sporty feel of the M3. This is very likely due to size and weight IMO.

[Desborough]

Originally Posted by Cooltones

Hey Op,
A few thoughts:
1) Is the car ultimately going to be YOURS, or hers? Who's the primary driver? If you, then go with the one you want (Assuming M3...).

2) 3 of our friends had either an M5 or M3 and decided to try the Tesla. Each had a different variant I recall. After 6-12 months 2 of the 3 sold their Tesla and went back to a "petrol" sports car. They both missed the exhaust note. One of them thought the interior was a bit bland. The one who still has the Tesla enjoys the "Go Green" spirit (FYI - this driver also has a Nissan Leaf and a Chevy Volt).

3) Happy Wife, Happy Life.... Whatever that means...

When I hear happy wife happy life I want to vomit. Makes me feel like for God sakes man let your balls drop already

[ghost34]

tesla is an awesome commuter car, unbelievable pull at stop lights and passing. torque is addicting but after a bit, I don't think you take it for drive, to hit some twisties. you will love the tesla but hopefully you fall in love with the M

[bd307]

Few things I can't stand with Tesla or in fact any of this EVs.

1. Need to plan out your routes for longer trips for those charging stations
2. Charging takes time and I still prefer pumping gas at stations in and out under 5 minutes with a ticket of lotto
3. As someone has stated, the range decreases drastically at higher speed (70+ mph). Their advertised range is not really accurate at all as the UOM is not in MPG
4. This is Tesla specific. I just hate the company and the way they do business. They are now basically a crowdfunding company with the Model 3. Nothing different than these individuals on Kickstarters, but with bigger mouth and throwing out bigger promises without a realistic goal.

They will probably be coming out with a Model 2 or something below Model 3 trimming and start their 2nd round of crowd-funding.

[swifty]

Op, I have a tesla model S and an e92 M3.

The tesla is a big car and definitely not in the same league as the m3 when it comes to driving dynamics.

However it offers everything else and more. You will
Love everything about it except the anxiety over range and that's only if you drive a lot with no superchargers around your area like here in Ontario Canada.

Nevertheless, considering you are on this site, you'll need a fun car in the family along with the Tesla. If you can swing it trade the x3 in and get a slightly used m3 and the Model S.

[HobbyInPA]

Get yourself the M3. I just feel that most women don't get as excited as we do over cars. Yes they like the status symbol of them, but most don't appreciate and drool over cars like we do. But I'm always trying to make sure my wife has cars she likes because she likes cars, but it's not a passion. I love cars and it's definitely my passion. Of course, I'm not saying how your wife is, just sharing my experience.

[DaBean]

I must say, I'm now a convert. I spent over a week driving a 90D Model S from Seattle down to Bend, OR, back up to Portland, back to Seattle, and around there for a few days. Honestly, the car is incredible. This isn't a fully fair comparison (2-dr performance coupe vs 4-dr large family sedan), but since people may cross-shop the M3 and the Model S, this is close enough:

I'll start with the pros:
- Car is gorgeous (subjective)
- Interior is sparse, but it reminds me of an iPhone: everything you need is there, w/o excess, and it's all incredibly-well integrated and intuitive to use
- Range - in town, it's never an issue; on road trips, superchargers are common enough that it's not a problem. It only took us 30 more minutes to get to Bend from Seattle than it took my friends. And it cost us $0.
- Autopilot. Autopilot. Autopilot. This feature is seriously sick. I can't believe it. The car will accelerate, brake, steer, stop, start again, etc... all on its own. All I have to do is tell it I'm paying attention to the road every 30 seconds by touching the steering wheel. This makes any long road trip much more enjoyable, as a) it's less taxing, b) I don't have to worry about cops, and c) it's just badass. The feature works best on highways, but also works well on side streets with reasonable markings. The better the markings, the better it works. There are a few times where it doesn't work well, and you need to pay attention: lane merges, and stop signs/lights when you're alone. It's easy to think the car does everything, but this isn't the full self-driving feature, so it won't stop for lights...
- Digitalization of the ICE system: Car knows where I need to go based on my calendar, maps interface is amazing, split mega screen means I can actually see everything I need well, etc.
- Acceleration: even in the 90D, acceleration is more than enough to satisfy me. The fact that it's AWD and has instant torque makes it even more useable than my M4 at doing quick bursts. Is it faster? No. It takes 4.2 seconds to go to 60, and my M4 3.9 seconds. Does it feel slower? No. Do I care about 0.3 seconds? No.
- Handling: it's good enough to have fun on the streets. Is it as good as the M4? No, though it feels limited more by the tires than anything else. Yes the weight is high, but then again the CG is very low so it compensates. Unless you track your M4 or constantly have fun in the backroads instead of safely at the track, this car provides more than enough for the every-day bursts of acceleration or on-ramp fun
- Dash: the information displayed on the dash is amazing: navi or music on the left, depending; speed in the middle, along with neighboring vehicles; power consumption historical graph on the right
- Storage/Capacity: Yea, not even close to the M4... I even got a comment from a friend that the rear middle seat is the only one he's ever sat in that's actually comfortable
- Cooled Seats. Nuff said

There are a few things that I did miss from the M4, though:
- Heads up display: While the dash is great, I do miss the HUD.
- Auto high beams: I have the EU version, so it's not a fair comparison; nevertheless, the Tesla seemed more confused by traffic signs than my M4
- Speed limit detection: Car seemed to frequently miss speed limit signs, especially if I'm not in the right-most lane. I don't have this feature on the M4, so I can't compare to its efficacy; however, it's not as good as expected on the Tesla
- Front bumper cameras: I did miss those from the M4 - they do make it easy to see coming out of parking garages or tight spot
- Rear Backup Camera: While the resolution is incredible compared to the M4, the guiding lines were not as precise, causing me 2x to almost scrape the side of the car against the garage; this has never happened to me in the M4


In addition, there were a few surprises, where I thought I'd get frustrated but in fact were either not a big deal / I ended up liking
- Charging on road trips: honestly, it's not as big of a pain as I thought it would be. It just requires an adjustment to how trips are planned. If you plan to eat, do bathroom stops, coffee stops, etc... around the superchargers, then you don't waste much time. The only downside is that you need to find a charger at your destination, especially if you plan on using the car a lot.
- Big screen. I thought I'd hate it, but I ended up loving it. Especially when paired with the autopilot (where it's "ok" to take your eyes off the road for a few seconds, especially in areas where there are no intersections and obstacles ahead), then it actually adds a lot to the whole experience
- Size of the car. It didn't really bother me that it was bigger than the M4, and it didn't feel massively bigger anyway (the M4 is rather large as it stands)

So, what next for me? I'm seriously considering giving up the M4. I won't pull the trigger just yet, but if I'm honest, before this weekend I would have never considered doing so. Now, after having lived in the future for a week, I'm thinking about it.

For me personally, the benefits would be that instead of needing a second AWD car to go skiing (+ parking offsite for it + insurance) I can consolidate to a single vehicle in SF. For track purposes, well I'll just take my E46 M3 out of hibernation and keep burning old dinosaurs - I'm ok with that.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by bd307

Few things I can't stand with Tesla or in fact any of this EVs.

1. Need to plan out your routes for longer trips for those charging stations
2. Charging takes time and I still prefer pumping gas at stations in and out under 5 minutes with a ticket of lotto
3. As someone has stated, the range decreases drastically at higher speed (70+ mph). Their advertised range is not really accurate at all as the UOM is not in MPG
4. This is Tesla specific. I just hate the company and the way they do business. They are now basically a crowdfunding company with the Model 3. Nothing different than these individuals on Kickstarters, but with bigger mouth and throwing out bigger promises without a realistic goal.

They will probably be coming out with a Model 2 or something below Model 3 trimming and start their 2nd round of crowd-funding.

I agree with what you said but I still love my P100DL.

For city driving Tesla P100DL's instant acceleration is unbeatable. Unless I run into a 918, otherwise I'm certain to beat every car from stoplight to stoplight (have no lost so far). Stereo is great due to lack of engine noise, and the navi is the best in the business.

If you try to find pleasures from driving a traditional performance car in a Tesla, yes you will likely be disappointed, but I went in knowing all the pitfalls of a electric car so I can just enjoy the benefits.

[JibSTir13]

A friend recently got a Model X. It is a great commuter car (assuming the commute is within range, which for most people it is).

For a sticker price of $115k, the interior is lacking in both fit and finish, as well as quality of materials. To be fair, my F80 has full leather, which has ruined me for anything less. Before the F80, I would have thought the quality of materials in a Tesla is fine.

Tesla drivers I've met are not car enthusiasts in the same sense as those of us in this forum - they are more tech enthusiasts. There are Tesla owners that are enthusiasts like us, and they typically have a fun car, want to get one, or regret trading it in for a Tesla.

I'm not saying Teslas are bad cars, just a different type of car. I'm a fan of electric cars and hybrids (had a Prius for a few years). They are simply not in the same class as an F8X, or other high-performance vehicles.