09-14-2012, 05:24 PM | #199 | |
Banned
98
Rep 1,265
Posts
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-14-2012, 10:42 PM | #200 |
First Lieutenant
92
Rep 380
Posts |
I am really torn here. Before the e90/92/93 my opinion was that the M3 should be a more refined variant of the top of the line 3 series engine. And while the F series represents a return to that form, the S65 is just so ridiculously awesome, that I just can't go back to a super tuned generic 3 series engine. However, I am very excited to see what the M2 will bring. It seems to me that M3 and higher have been relegated to really great touring cars. I hope the M2 shows up as the raw motorsports car that the M3 used to be.
PS. Fuck CAFE. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-14-2012, 11:04 PM | #201 | |
Major
142
Rep 1,108
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
My e90
Frozen Grey. Dry CF Roof. Vorsteiner Double Sided CF Boot Lid. OSS. BMW Performance Aero Kit. BMW Performance CF Diffuser Cover. BMW Performance CF Trim. Robson Design Steering Wheel. Advan RS. Michelin PSS. H&R Touring Cup Kit. BMW Performance Brakes. Eisenmann Race Rear Muffler. ESS Directflash |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 05:49 AM | #203 | |
Major General
3492
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
If that is not good enough for you WTF is? An engine consists of a block, with pistons and rods, and a head. All the magic happens in the head and induction system. Yes the M3 might share the bottom end of a more mundane 3 series (sic.), but it does have a unique to M3 head and induction system. That's all that matters. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 07:18 AM | #204 |
Banned
98
Rep 1,265
Posts
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China
|
The NA V8 M3 with DCT is already a low 12 sec car,so is the F10 M5,i dont think this car is goin to be an 11 sec car.
Something tells me the weight difference between the s65 and this reworked N55 engine is goin to be negligible with the s65 on the lighter side,i guess it comes down to mpg. I thought BMW had plenty of fuel efficient cars already. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 10:52 AM | #205 | |
First Lieutenant
92
Rep 380
Posts |
Quote:
As for the F1 engine, yes it's impressive, but that's not the kind of engineering going into the F series engines thus far. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 11:18 AM | #206 | |
Major General
3492
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
One thing for sure....in using a common engine, and a straight 6 at that, the price will atleast allow more people to enjoy M3's. Personally, I applaud BMW for supporting the Inline 6, every other company has dropped I6's due to difficulty in crash tests. You prefer BMW follow the other sheep and V everything? The only shame is that BMW went V in the first place.....good job that guy was fired |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 01:36 PM | #207 | |
Major General
1722
Rep 5,110
Posts |
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M62#S62 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M50#S50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S54B32#S54 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 02:11 PM | #208 | |
Second Lieutenant
2
Rep 220
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 02:30 PM | #209 |
Captain
116
Rep 888
Posts |
It's no secret that the S engines were "derived" from their non-M counterparts. That doesn't mean the same exact materials have to be used.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 02:51 PM | #210 | |
Major General
1722
Rep 5,110
Posts |
Quote:
I guess you can do the exact same thing on Realoem.com with the next gen M3 engine. Plenty of different part numbers that separates it from the engine it is based on. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 04:08 PM | #211 | |
Major General
894
Rep 9,034
Posts |
I haven't read ths whole thread, but does it look like 2 air boxes on opposite sides of the engine? Possible electric supercharger?
Quote:
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 04:40 PM | #212 |
Colonel
500
Rep 2,400
Posts |
Nope. BMW has stated very clearly that engine/component sharing is the key way to drive costs down and increase per vehicle profitability and meet fuel efficiency goals, including the M cars. So the customer is in fact getting lower cost components relative to what they're paying. With BMW's current regime, there will be no bespoke M engines going forward (which is completely different philosophy from the 'guy who got fired'). Mind you this isn't from BMW marketing folks, blogs, automotive magazines or anything, this is right from their publicly available investment presentations/transcripts and what they're telling shareholders. The "left over" from engine budget is going right to shareholder equity. M vehicles will be more profitable going forward, but at whose expense?
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 04:46 PM | #213 | |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 41
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 04:54 PM | #214 | |
Major General
3492
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
If you did, you would know that using an existing engine would leave plenty in reserve to give shareholders a better margin and spend serious cash on 'engineering'. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 05:19 PM | #215 |
Brigadier General
435
Rep 3,888
Posts |
Forget the "based on" and "different parts". What I care about is the result, and however many parts might have been change or "heavily modified", the new TT I6 will NOT achieve the result M had set before. Every M3 had more power, more torque and higher redline. By today's standards this new M3 engine should have gotten a 9K RPM redline, but with FI it won't even rev above 7.5K RPM. If you want a FI I6 just get a 335i or better the coming M340i, but let the M3 stay "Motorpsort".
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 05:28 PM | #216 |
Banned
98
Rep 1,265
Posts
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China
|
Regardless of what engines the M3 cars used in the past,there's no arguing the NA high revving V8 is more fun than a twin turbo in line six.
The S65 is being replaced by a twin turbo reworked N55 for costs reasons. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 06:40 PM | #217 | |
Private First Class
27
Rep 106
Posts |
Quote:
What now? "Ummm the new M3, 135i engine with some more power." |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 06:54 PM | #218 | |
Colonel
500
Rep 2,400
Posts |
Good points. Also, "Motorsport" in prior years past actually meant an engine or close derivative that was actually used in racing in conjunction with the production of the new automobile. With this last gen, not only did you get an engine used in racing, but one very closely related to technologies from the F1 racing and McLaren F1. Not so with the new gen.
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 07:06 PM | #219 |
Colonel
500
Rep 2,400
Posts |
Wishful thinking...it will go mostly to the bottom line and the M cars will still not be quite as profitable as the non-M cars (vs. minuscule profit per vehicle of prior gens). Not to mention other 'serious engineering' costs such as such as fake engine sounds, fake steering, fake manual transmissions, fake road feel, fake M cars, etc. There is really nothing groundbreaking about the M5 and M6 technology wise that make them game changers, apart from clever ways of using turbos to boost power and attempt to mimic N/A engine characteristics and improve fuel efficiency.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-15-2012, 08:08 PM | #220 |
Major
112
Rep 1,140
Posts |
Yeah right. So that must be why Top Gear, and notably Jermey Clarkson who is not known for being a BMW lover, has chosen a BMW 1M (with a twin turbo in-line six) to be the ultimate fun car of 2011.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|