6MT or DCT?

[Onewheeldrive]

I'm not here to feed the trolls, just to reflect on my decision to scour the state of CA to find a 6MT for my M4. Let me first say that every driver is entitled to their opinion and choice of options (that is, until manufacturers remove the three pedal option, which seems to be looming closer).

Having daily driven an E39 M5 for some time (my first BMW, thankfully only available in a 6MT), owned and tracked several Ducati motorcycles, and ultimately, enjoying the deliberate nature of manual selecting and engaging gears, to me, the three pedal setup was the only choice for me. I would never assert that it's faster in a straight line or around a track, because I know it definitely is not. Were I competing every Saturday for gentleman racer trophies, I may have reconsidered my choice for tenths off a lap time. As a daily driven sports car that I vigorously enjoy feeling connected to, any computer intervention lessens the experience. When I test drove the DCT, even in manual mode, I was often surprised by the computer's decision to drop a gear, and in one case, severely jeopardize traction. I love the swell of a third gear run from low RPMs. May not be as fast as a lightning fast DS to second and a double-clutched shift to third, but shouldn't that be my decision to make? While I'm on the topic, traction control, in the interest of maintaining grip can often do exactly the opposite of its intention. Any seasoned driver knows that in many cases of instability, power to the wheels is often the only way out of trouble. I want access to all WHP and TQ. If I wanted to drive a sub 400hp car, I'd have bought one.

From a technological standpoint, I know the DCT is superior to the nearly 100 year old technology of a manual transmission. BMW engineers have been working obviously quite hard improving the tech since the release of the terrible SMG. It's driveability has improved 10-fold and I can actually say that I did enjoy driving one, but simply not as much as I enjoy the deliberate blip of throttle and perfectly-timed clutch release that sends me off the line.

At the end of the day, there's an ass for every seat. We should applaud every F8X driver for having similarly good taste for choosing one of the best driver cars out there, not lambasting them for choosing a different way to enjoy it. Drive on!

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Onewheeldrive

I'm not here to feed the trolls, just to reflect on my decision to scour the state of CA to find a 6MT for my M4. Let me first say that every driver is entitled to their opinion and choice of options (that is, until manufacturers remove the three pedal option, which seems to be looming closer).

Having daily driven an E39 M5 for some time (my first BMW, thankfully only available in a 6MT), owned and tracked several Ducati motorcycles, and ultimately, enjoying the deliberate nature of manual selecting and engaging gears, to me, the three pedal setup was the only choice for me. I would never assert that it's faster in a straight line or around a track, because I know it definitely is not. Were I competing every Saturday for gentleman racer trophies, I may have reconsidered my choice for tenths off a lap time. As a daily driven sports car that I vigorously enjoy feeling connected to, any computer intervention lessens the experience. When I test drove the DCT, even in manual mode, I was often surprised by the computer's decision to drop a gear, and in one case, severely jeopardize traction. I love the swell of a third gear run from low RPMs. May not be as fast as a lightning fast DS to second and a double-clutched shift to third, but shouldn't that be my decision to make? While I'm on the topic, traction control, in the interest of maintaining grip can often do exactly the opposite of its intention. Any seasoned driver knows that in many cases of instability, power to the wheels is often the only way out of trouble. I want access to all WHP and TQ. If I wanted to drive a sub 400hp car, I'd have bought one.

From a technological standpoint, I know the DCT is superior to the nearly 100 year old technology of a manual transmission. BMW engineers have been working obviously quite hard improving the tech since the release of the terrible SMG. It's driveability has improved 10-fold and I can actually say that I did enjoy driving one, but simply not as much as I enjoy the deliberate blip of throttle and perfectly-timed clutch release that sends me off the line.

At the end of the day, there's an ass for every seat. We should applaud every F8X driver for having similarly good taste for choosing one of the best driver cars out there, not lambasting them for choosing a different way to enjoy it. Drive on!

Well said

[Krish_1]

Originally Posted by Projectile

All I have argued is that part of what makes an MT engaging, perhaps the biggest part, has been lost in a rev matching MT. Notice that I have NOT argued that a rev-matched MT is not even the tiniest amount more engaging than a DCT. Only that a rev matched MT is getting closer to the disengagement of a DCT. Regardless of how may cars you've driven in the past (pedigree carries such little weight in these discussions and honestly ends up looking a little lame and embarrassing) can you really argue with that?

Dude, there are two options. I picked the option that I found engaging, entertaining, fun, and put a smile on my face (6MT!). So should you! Stop arguing already.

[3er]

Originally Posted by CSanto

The best part about owning the stick is the proceeding conversation when people ask me if its a stick or not.
With the F80 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: Yeah Man I love it
Them: Awesome!

With my E92 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: No, it's a Dual clutch transmission...kinda like F1 style with the paddles.
Them: Ohh yeah...my car is an automatic, it has the paddles too.
Me: Yeah....its like that....

Lololol...this is the best!

[oldkingdom]

Originally Posted by 3er

Lololol...this is the best!

The BEST because it's painfully accurate.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by CSanto

The best part about owning the stick is the proceeding conversation when people ask me if its a stick or not.
With the F80 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: Yeah Man I love it
Them: Awesome!

With my E92 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: No, it's a Dual clutch transmission...kinda like F1 style with the paddles.
Them: Ohh yeah...my car is an automatic, it has the paddles too.
Me: Yeah....its like that....

So the best part about owning a stick is so you can impress some ignoramous in a parking lot?

[3er]

Originally Posted by oldkingdom

The BEST because it's painfully accurate.

Lol, exactly. Having to explain a DCT to non-car people that think a Honda Accord with paddles = sports car is always "fun."

As soon as you start to say, "You see, it's kind of a manual and kind of an automatic..."

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by 3er

Lol, exactly. Having to explain a DCT to non-car people that think a Honda Accord with paddles = sports car is always "fun."

As soon as you start to say, "You see, it's kind of a manual and kind of an automatic..."

Cool story Bro.

[Lups]

This conversation is entertaining always but us manual owners have a weird way of looking at this here in the USA.

The other day I had a good chat with M6-Coupe about these and he told me a story from his past about everything failing in his car, him having no brakes and no clutch and so on. I kept thinking about this story (too much time in my hands again) and it was a good bridge to tie this post to one that makes sense (to me at least).

Us with manuals have learned mostly to drive outside USA. In the roads with no straights, ups, downs, stupid animals running to the roads. We remember those days every day and we long for the danger and to the situations while behind the wheel every day. We just do it differently.

Dct crew in our view were born, turned 16, bought an M (dads money naturally) and shoot off to sunset with a machine that has too much power and they don't know anything about real control.

More truthful and better way to see this would be, thank fruits (I've been told off many times for cussing, best effort made here) we have options. Manual crew should lose a bit of our arrogance which I share heavily and dct crew should be happy we are slower so you can just beat us in the lights.

All in all. We have still options. I'd say the few real racers we have can get to the numbers to 0-60 told many times, the rest of us can be happy if we get off the line without growing more facial hair.

[Sedan_Clan]

Go 6MT go.....and yeah, go Lups.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by 3er

Lol, exactly. Having to explain a DCT to non-car people that think a Honda Accord with paddles = sports car is always "fun."

As soon as you start to say, "You see, it's kind of a manual and kind of an automatic..."

Lol. If I had a DCT I wouldn't even bother to explain what a DCT is. I'd just say, yeah, it's an automatic.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Go 6MT go.....and yeah, go Lups.

I'm headed your way asap when my tiny boss settles down a bit. I don't mind you pulling next to me in the ymb, but we don't need the news of a white chick losing her shit when a cop pulled her over for mild (lets just use my scale with that word, shall we) speeding and started ranting her about how to drive better.

I'm telling you S, just shoot me on the spot and never tell here.

I'll text you the date and the roads so you can just hide away. Deal?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lups

I'm headed your way asap when my tiny boss settles down a bit. I don't mind you pulling next to me in the ymb, but we don't need the news of a white chick losing her shit when a cop pulled her over for mild (lets just use my scale with that word, shall we) and started ranting her about how to drive better.

I'm telling you S, just shoot me on the spot and never tell here.

I'll text you the date and the roads so you can just hide away. Deal?

Deal! I'll be waiting. Muahahaha!

(That was supposed to be an evil laugh, but somehow it seems like a long kiss. LOL!)

[Lups]

Originally Posted by CSanto

The best part about owning the stick is the proceeding conversation when people ask me if its a stick or not.
With the F80 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: Yeah Man I love it
Them: Awesome!

With my E92 -
Them: Is that thing a stick
Me: No, it's a Dual clutch transmission...kinda like F1 style with the paddles.
Them: Ohh yeah...my car is an automatic, it has the paddles too.
Me: Yeah....its like that....

Apparently this is my trolling thread of the night so lets use this post too!


I get so much shit for owning one, and its always the same shit.

1. Boyfriends car?
2. Hubby bought it for you?
3. Little girl do you know what it's packing?

1. No.
2. Actually a dead daddy gave me the funds to do stupid shit.
3. Yes I do.

Number three always lingers till they see the shift knob. Then comes the question: " where are you from?".

Well not here fucker. Thanks for lending me your roads and your vast open areas so I know what this boy of mine can do as a manual.

This is always funny. No one ever asks anything after seeing a stupid knob. Apparently manual makes us perfect.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Deal! I'll be waiting. Muahahaha!

(That was supposed to be an evil laugh, but somehow it seems like a long kiss. LOL!)

Oh dear coffee. I'll end up in jail.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lups

Apparently this is my trolling thread of the night so lets use this post too!


I get so much shit for owning one, and its always the same shit.

1. Boyfriends car?
2. Hubby bought it for you?
3. Little girl do you know what it's packing?

1. No.
2. Actually a dead daddy gave me the funds to do stupid shit.
3. Yes I do.

Number three always lingers till they see the shift knob. Then comes the question: " where are you from?".

Well not here fucker. Thanks for lending me your roads and your vast open areas so I know what this boy of mine can do as a manual.

This is always funny. No one ever asks anything after seeing a stupid knob. Apparently manual makes us perfect.

Doesn't hurt that you charm them even with a mouth that rivals Captain Hook's.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Doesn't hurt that you charm them even with a mouth that rivals Captain Hook's.

Shut it! I was pulled over for minor speeding (60/40) a few days ago in the Audi, the cop took his sweet time to walk up to me, saw my boys gagging and the baby spitting up his lunch and he kindly told me to have a great day.

I didn't even have the time to tell him to fuck off. And no, no manual makes lups cranky.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lups

Shut it! I was pulled over for minor speeding (60/40) a few days ago in the Audi, the cop took his sweet time to walk up to me, saw my boys gagging and the baby spitting up his lunch and he kindly told me to have a great day.

I didn't even have the time to tell him to fuck off. And no, no manual makes lups cranky.

LOL! You are hilarious. He probably knew you. All of the blueline know you in Washington.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

LOL! You are hilarious. He probably knew you. All of the blueline know you in Washington.

I've gotten a ticket! You could've told me that even in this backwards country they let women become cops. Now I keep it below hundred often!

[DaBean]

... back on topic

Been running these types of transmissions for as long as they've been available. Have the SMGII in my E46, and now have M-DCT in my F82. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Manual's fun... sure. But even on a track, I have a blast in with my SMG (and I'm sure I will in the DCT). It also gives me insurance that I'll never moneyshift (it happens to the best). And on track, it allows you to focus on other things and have a more relaxing drive around the circuit.

I've raced cars with non-synchromesh transmissions, with regular manuals, and tracked my E46 with SMG more than I can count - I've done the whole spectrum. Ultimately, they're all fun, and in different ways. It comes down to the owner. There's no right decision for everyone, hence why they make it an option

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Lups

This conversation is entertaining always but us manual owners have a weird way of looking at this here in the USA.

The other day I had a good chat with M6-Coupe about these and he told me a story from his past about everything failing in his car, him having no brakes and no clutch and so on. I kept thinking about this story (too much time in my hands again) and it was a good bridge to tie this post to one that makes sense (to me at least).

Us with manuals have learned mostly to drive outside USA. In the roads with no straights, ups, downs, stupid animals running to the roads. We remember those days every day and we long for the danger and to the situations while behind the wheel every day. We just do it differently.

Dct crew in our view were born, turned 16, bought an M (dads money naturally) and shoot off to sunset with a machine that has too much power and they don't know anything about real control.

More truthful and better way to see this would be, thank fruits (I've been told off many times for cussing, best effort made here) we have options. Manual crew should lose a bit of our arrogance which I share heavily and dct crew should be happy we are slower so you can just beat us in the lights.

All in all. We have still options. I'd say the few real racers we have can get to the numbers to 0-60 told many times, the rest of us can be happy if we get off the line without growing more facial hair.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Lups

Dct crew in our view were born, turned 16, bought an M (dads money naturally) and shoot off to sunset with a machine that has too much power and they don't know anything about real control.

Sensible post in general Lups, you must have had your coffee dose

I disagree with your above paragraph though. Although I am still 16 at heart (and in my head according to my wife ), I past that age several decades ago. I grew up learning to drive manual at age 8 on the farm tractor (18 speeds with two shift levers ). I started tracking cars over 20 years ago of which all were manuals except for my last two DCT ///Ms. So while I am far from being a professional, I do understand a thing or two about car control. When I hop into my wife's manual S4, rev matching and heel-and-toeing remains a second nature. My choosing DCT over 6MT is purely a personal preference (although I did debate the choice at length when ordering my M4).