6MT or DCT?

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

At this point high end performance cars are only available with two pedal transmissions and professional race drivers almost universally prefer to shift with paddles so perhaps a better slogan would be"

"Manual transmissions, the preferred choice of amateur drivers in low end cars."

Not quite universal mate (and not quite amateur driver either), Lewis Hamilton specified his Pagani Zonda 760 LH with MT cos he gets sick of driving paddles in his days job...

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by paddy335

Not quite universal mate (and not quite amateur driver either), Lewis Hamilton specified his Pagani Zonda 760 LH with MT cos he gets sick of driving paddles in his days job...

Please don't tell me you took me seriously.

[bmwluvr24]

And I definitely am not against a 6MT. I was simply making a point that opinions vary and I will not allow someone, even if they are an insistent asshat, to sway mine.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Please don't tell me you took me seriously.

The first part of your post, yes, the second part certainly tongue in cheek eh.

[JoeFromPA]

I'm glad they offer both. There's nothing wrong with either for certain people and purposes. One shifts faster, one weighs less.

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I have no particular bias for or against MTs or ATs but I drove MTs in NYC rush hour traffic for years and it never bothered me. Shifting an MT just becomes second nature after a while.

Indeed. It's amazing the low tolerance of those that claim "I like manual but...."

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I have no particular bias for or against MTs or ATs but I drove MTs in NYC rush hour traffic for years and it never bothered me. Shifting an MT just becomes second nature after a while.

It gets tiresome after a while in stop-and-go traffic... Who wants to press the clutch pedal and move the shifter hundreds of times a day... Even if it's second nature, it's still a pain and bad for the car as well. Fortunately, I'm able to avoid stop-and-go traffic most of the time, so I stick to the stick.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by visualguy

It gets tiresome after a while in stop-and-go traffic... Who wants to press the clutch pedal and move the shifter hundreds of times a day... Even if it's second nature, it's still a pain and bad for the car as well. Fortunately, I'm able to avoid stop-and-go traffic most of the time, so I stick to the stick.

I can only speak for myself and as I said I never had an issue driving an MT in NYC traffic. I also drove MTs extensively in Washington DC and Boston traffic.

The last MT car I had in NY was still on the original clutch at 150,000 miles so I suppose it wasn't TOO bad for the car.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Dct = good for people who can not handle 3 peddles or have to have the latest gadgetry.

At what point do the lame one-liners become nothing but trolling? Let alone how lame it is to repeat one's self...

[aajami]

Does the M-DCT unit in the M5 and M6 rev-match during downshifts?

[Thurman Murch]

When chicks get in a car and see the dct they say to themselves "oh thought this guy would have a stick..." You can't help the dct in the Veyron

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Dct = good for people who can not handle 3 peddles or have to have the latest gadgetry.

Originally Posted by swamp2

At what point do the lame one-liners become nothing but trolling? Let alone how lame it is to repeat one's self...

Peddling an opinion apparently takes at least 3 attempts.


Peddle
verb: peddle; 3rd person present: peddles; past tense: peddled; past participle: peddled; gerund or present participle: peddling

1. try to sell (something, esp. small goods) by going from house to house or place to place.
"he peddled art and printing materials around the country"

synonyms: sell, sell from door to door, hawk, tout, vend; trade (in), deal in, traffic in

[basscadet]

I've driven manuals for 20 years and this clown is telling me DCT is for people without driving skill?

[jbockrd]

Originally Posted by varsity

Has nobody used the word "wife" in this thread?

The only reason I'm opting for DCT is because my wife is terrible at driving three-pedal cars, and she will most likely use this car often. We have three cars and are downsizing to two. I would much rather have a 3-pedal, but practical considerations outweigh my preference.

My wife drives stick, very well. Has a Golf with a stick. And even got us tickets to Detroit for January!!! There I used the word "wife" LOL

[jbockrd]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

You sure are passionate about such a trivial thing. The same argument could be made towards having a 6MT. "Manuals are for those who think that every road is a racetrack." See how easy that was? It didn't change the fact that I still love a manual, but would not prefer it for commuting or every day driving in a high traffic area.

PLease someone that drives in New York city often (I do 3 times a year so I don't count) support the DCT drivers for the "best of all worlds" option for a performance car. As I have stated, I am a manual trans guy, but I want to kill myself when I am in NY in traffic with it!!! RIDICULOUSLY TEDIOUS. Philly I can manage fine however

[JoeFromPA]

My wife loves a chance to get back in the high-torque m5 and shift her own gears. Once she learned and was forced to get comfortable with it on a prior car, she's loved it ever since.

I don't understand, honestly, why people who live in ultra-urban areas and who require an automatic transmission because of traffic....why are you even getting a $70k sports car? If the traffic is so bad, so frequently, that you simply can not deal with shifting your own gears....then you are buying a very expensive car that's going to sit and barely do anything performance related. Why not get a second beater vehicle for the commuting and keep the m3 stick and drive it when traffic is not that horrible.

I'm not knocking people's judgement, it just seems to be a contradiction. "I MUST HAVE AN M3, and of course I'd prefer it be stick, but I'm going to get it in automatic because I can't even use it as an m3 99% of the time anyway."

No problem with automatics or DCT. Lots of great reasons for both (i.e. someone wants ultimate track performance = DCT, back issues = DCT, etc.).

[captainaudio]

These are the usual arguments both pro and con that turn up in these ubiquitous "MT vs DCT' threads.

1. Real drivers only drive MTs.

This statement comes from ignorance as I know from experience that many expert drivers have ATs and DCTs in their daily drivers. I asked the Senior Skip Barber instructor who taught me how to double clutch and heel and toe how he liked the DCT M3 he was driving (it was the Lime Rock Park Pace Car) and his answer was "It shifts better than I can".

2. An MT gives more control than a a paddle shifted transmission.

If it did they would not be using paddle shifters in race cars. IN manual mode the driver has control of the gear selection on a DCT

3. A DCT shifts faster than a human.

True but so what?. What situation are you in while driving on the road where you need to execute a shift faster than you can manually?

4. Formula 1 cars and ALMS cars have paddle shifters.

Also true but somewhat irrelevant to street cars. F1 and ALMS cars do not operate in stop and go traffic so smooth starts form a dead stop, a desirable quality in a street car, are irrelevant in a race car.[/B]

5. I need a manual transmission to pay attention while I'm driving.

If you can't pay attention to the road while you are driving an AT you don't need an MT you need to be treated for attention deficit disorder. What do you do when you are driving at cruising speed on a empty, straight, flat stretch of interstate?

6. I don't like shifting an MT in stop and go traffic.

This is a matter of personal preference. If you drive in stop and go traffic and don't like shifting get an AT or a DCT.

7. I think an MT is more fun.

Again a matter of personal opinion. If you think an MT is more fun then by all means get one. Just accept the fact that not everyone feels the same way you do.

8, ATs and DCTs are for old people that don't know how to drive an MT.

The Baby Boomers grew up with MTs in cars like Camaros, Mustangs, Pontiac GTOs, BMW 2002s, etc. The vast majority of older M3/4 customers will be experienced MT drivers regardless of which transmission they select.

9. MT drivers are better drivers than DCT drivers.

A ridiculous and completely unfounded generalization. There are a lot of very unskilled MT drivers out there who may be able to shift gears but have no idea how to properly drive an MT and could not execute a double clutched heel and toe downshift while threshold braking if their life depended on it. These drivers are in many cases the ones who are most insistent on the superiority of MTs and MT drivers.

10. MTs are less likely to be stolen because many auto thieves cant drive a manual.

This actually happened to a guy I used to work with who was car jacked. The thieves abandoned the car and ran away (it was a Volvo with an MT) when they could not get the car moving.

[karussell]

i love this debate every time. at least BMW is still offering a choice. hope they always will.

i'm looking forward to better transmissions replacing the dual clutch myself. The F1 derived IGS transmission is making its way to production cars. There is the zero clutch transmission that uses expanding gears which is kinda like the CVT but without the weak cone gears, and now instant torque sensing automatics that will shift just as fast as dual clutch without the weight penalty although still incredibly complex.

i don't like the idea of an entire clutch mechanism sitting there doing nothing. i may be the odd man out on this but i preferred SMG over DCT. it felt like a manual. it essentially was. still had to heel toe the damn thing to rev match enough at least on the us spec cars.

i'm going to stick with a manual most likely.

[435iaffair]

Been rowing my gears for the last 10+ years in heavy Socal traffic.

My M4 will most likely be DCT as I will keep a few 3 pedals cars in the garage to balance it out.

I think the DCT will help keep the engine in its powerband better due to its gearing (should be shorter than the 6mt, i'd be happy to be proven wrong), and coupled with a forced inducted engine will in turn make the car much more responsive. Such was the case when I test drove the 435i with the ZF tranny vs. a manual tranny; the former felt much more responsive, and ended up in my driveway.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by 435iaffair

Been rowing my gears for the last 10+ years in heavy Socal traffic.

My M4 will most likely be DCT as I will keep a few 3 pedals cars in the garage to balance it out.

I think the DCT will help keep the engine in its powerband better due to its gearing (should be shorter than the 6mt, i'd be happy to be proven wrong), and coupled with a forced inducted engine will in turn make the car much more responsive. Such was the case when I test drove the 435i with the ZF tranny vs. a manual tranny; the former felt much more responsive, and ended up in my driveway.

As was discussed earlier in this thread, the DCT will likely have the carry over ratios of the M5/M6 which are not optimized for performance. Further, since the S55 has a broad power plateau, tighter ratios are not as beneficial as they were with the peaky power curve of the S65. The main performance benefit of the DCT in the F8X application is the shifting without loss of power which is, as Swamp2 mentions, equivalent to 20-40hp during an acceleration run.

[435iaffair]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As was discussed earlier in this thread, the DCT will likely have the carry over ratios of the M5/M6 which are not optimized for performance. Further, since the S55 has a broad power plateau, tighter ratios are not as beneficial as they were with the peaky power curve of the S65. The main performance benefit of the DCT in the F8X application is the shifting without loss of power which is, as Swamp2 mentions, equivalent to 20-40hp during an acceleration run.

Thanks for the clarifications! A test drive is definitely in order to make my final decision

Edit: The DCT should also help launching the car better and more consistently

[gabriele]

6 MT only please.