M4 vs Gen VI Camaro ZL1 (640Hp)

[DocWeatherington]

Hats off to GM again.. But now the question what happens to the Vette ? Something tells me there might not be a Z/28 with this gen...

I think the Mustang and Hellcat just got served a piece of pie..

Supercharged 6.2-liter V8 cranking out an estimated 640 horsepower and 640 pound-feet of torque.

10-speed automatic transmission ( Co-Developed with Ford... 640 ft lbs ...10 Speeds.. that's crazy, I wonder what the max is on that tranny)
200 Pounds less than the less Gen ZL1 (EST 3850)
Six-piston Brembos with two-piece rotors
20Inch Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires
Standard with 11 heat exchangers for proper powertrain cooling
Food for thought 2015 ZL1 was $57,800 ( Shipping and Gas Guzzler).. I doubt this will move much price wise..

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-...t-look-review/
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/16/2...-look-3487537/

[Sassicaia]

Hideous looking.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Hideous looking.

That's a toss up.. The interior is .. well... ... I like the GT350 better.. but it ain't bad... It will still have the typical GM cost cutting and cheap this and that.. An the well, I can't see out the any of the windows.

This is going to smash some lap times... tons of kit for the price.

Again hats off to GM...

I wonder what they are going to do with the ATS-v kind of alot of repeat products in the GM lineup. Granted good products but alot of the same.

Its a good time for enthusiast

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

That's a toss up.. The interior is .. well... ... I like the GT350 better.. but it ain't bad... It will still have the typical GM cost cutting and cheap this and that.. An the well, I can't see out the any of the windows.

This is going to smash some lap times... tons of kit for the price.

Again hats off to GM...

I wonder what they are going to do with the ATS-v kind of alot of repeat products in the GM lineup. Granted good products but alot of the same.

Its a good time for enthusiast

I think it will hurt the ats-v sales the most. i really dont get their marketing guys.

ats sales have fallen off the rock. GM should try to let Cadillac shine vs giving all to Chevy with their best products- i.e. Malibu, Camaro, Corvette, etc.

US sales:

[Rambler]

I think it looks nicely aggressive. The way it ate up that track was astonishing. Hopefully the cooling issues are sorted with this.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I think it will hurt the ats-v sales the most. i really dont get their marketing guys.

ats sales have fallen off the rock. GM should try to let Cadillac shine vs giving all to Chevy with their best products- i.e. Malibu, Camaro, Corvette, etc.

US sales:

Attachment 1383001

Way too much in house fighting at GM...

This will cost less than a Z06.. and use a good chuck of the same parts and cost less..

This will eat a ATS-V and probably will cost less on the base price... and truth be told looks better on the outside as well as on the inside.. Never mind a Corvette ...this has backseats and a usable trunk..

Kill the ATS-v its a mute point now... An I even question the purpose of the CTS-V, is it going to be 20-30K better than this.. Doubt it, 2 extra doors better..


I would buy this over the Hellcat and GT350R for sure.. M4 Comp Pack/ C63s Coupe.. hmm.. tough tough

Things are going to get interesting when its time to replace the F80..

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Rambler

I think it looks nicely aggressive. The way it ate up that track was astonishing. Hopefully the cooling issues are sorted with this.

Standard with 11 heat exchangers for proper powertrain cooling

If 11 can't do it.. I call that a fail... they have tons of places to stick stuff to cool this down vs a Vett

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

10-speed automatic transmission ( Co-Developed with Ford... 640 ft lbs ...10 Speeds.. that's crazy, I wonder what the max is on that tranny)

Ok this is the most interesting aspect for sure. I have already read some people saying this new 10-speed is quicker than a DCT. Same crap they said about the new 8-speed auto in the Z06, well that wasn't exactly true.

But after watching this video on MotorTrend, it sure looks like instant shifts when the paddles are pulled.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/ride-...ro-zl1-wvideo/

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Way too much in house fighting at GM...

This will cost less than a Z06.. and use a good chuck of the same parts and cost less..

This will eat a ATS-V and probably will cost less on the base price... and truth be told looks better on the outside as well as on the inside.. Never mind a Corvette ...this has backseats and a usable trunk..

Kill the ATS-v its a mute point now... An I even question the purpose of the CTS-V, is it going to be 20-30K better than this.. Doubt it, 2 extra doors better..


I would buy this over the Hellcat and GT350R for sure.. M4 Comp Pack/ C63s Coupe.. hmm.. tough tough

Things are going to get interesting when its time to replace the F80..

i agree.

but usually when there are this many perf cars from this many makes we are heading towards a recession. there is simply too many cars spread out too thin.

i predict there will be markdowns all across the board in the coming years.

[Bunkei]

According to http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-transmission/ .. this transmission was principally designed by Ford:

(note the date of this publication is December 1, 2014)

..."Lately there has been a lot of speculation on what the Ford Motor Company has been up to with their 10 speed transmission design. All we know is that there is a joint venture between Ford and GM to develop the next generation 10 speed transmission for next generation RWD trucks and cars ..."

... "General Motors has officially partnered up with Ford to use this design in the future. Ford appears to be leading this design effort, and in return GM appears to be leading the design effort for the 9 speed FWD transmissions. Though the GM 8L family is an excellent design in its own right, but perhaps the economies of scale inherent in a partnership are attractive enough for them to adopt this design after a relatively short time with the 8L family ...

..."While it is possible that this transmission shows up for 2016 model year in late 2015, it seems more likely that it actually does not show up till the middle of 2016 for 2017 model year vehicles ..."

Pretty much right on all counts. I'm also surmising that this transmission will also find its way into the GT350 and upcoming GT500.

[azt3c]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Hats off to GM again.. But now the question what happens to the Vette ? Something tells me there might not be a Z/28 with this gen...

I think the Mustang and Hellcat just got served a piece of pie..

Supercharged 6.2-liter V8 cranking out an estimated 640 horsepower and 640 pound-feet of torque.

10-speed automatic transmission ( Co-Developed with Ford... 640 ft lbs ...10 Speeds.. that's crazy, I wonder what the max is on that tranny)
200 Pounds less than the less Gen ZL1 (EST 3850)
Six-piston Brembos with two-piece rotors
20Inch Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires
Standard with 11 heat exchangers for proper powertrain cooling
Food for thought 2015 ZL1 was $57,800 ( Shipping and Gas Guzzler).. I doubt this will move much price wise..

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-...t-look-review/
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/16/2...-look-3487537/

This is truly amazing. Definitely will be on my list of vehicles in 2-3 years. I do agree with a few of the other comments. This will definitely hurt ATS-V, and possibly CTS-V/Z06 sales. Heck, the new SS is likely to hurt ATS-V sales.

Oh, Cadillac.

[ClothSeats]

I believe the upcoming Ford Raptor will use a version of this 10AT. And the ATS-V is unfortunately left in the cold after CUE, the gauges, and this 640hp Camaro on the same platform costing less. At least it has better visibility and comes with 4 doors..

[vase330]

I will neve understand why domestics insist on being simply hideous inside. I mean not one is that attractive. Even the mighty tesla wreaks of GM inside. You step in the car and for the price it barely looks half what you expect. You can have a mighty platform and engine, but inside is where humans live. Devot a little effort to doing nice interiors or hire the interior designers from the European competition already! There is this believe we don't care or really appreciate beautiful interiors. Single biggest reason I still won't buy a domestic. . Fix that I'll consider one.

[ASAP]

I think the killer for a lot of domestic cars is looks, build quality and interior. This car seems like it has all the right pieces, but like the ats-v, I can't love it due to the other aspects. The Z06 for example, I can forgive everything because it looks dead sexy and is a world class performer... not sure this is either of those.

[John Galt]

I hope, its not a track car and does not have the same parachute as the new z06 has.
I want to say that this gen is not photogenic.
And it defo needs the full led head lights.

[FC]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Kill the ATS-v its a mute point now... An I even question the purpose of the CTS-V, is it going to be 20-30K better than this.. Doubt it, 2 extra doors better..

Um, the ATS-V sedan also has four doors. I see no reason to kill that car. And to the extent that that car lives, why kill the coupe?

[See5]

I wouldn't be worried about the ATS-V. It, the ZL1, and Stingray are all in the same price range but I'd venture to guess that the buyer demographics look different for each. They won't be cross shopped by the people actually looking to buy them.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Ok this is the most interesting aspect for sure. I have already read some people saying this new 10-speed is quicker than a DCT. Same crap they said about the new 8-speed auto in the Z06, well that wasn't exactly true.

But after watching this video on MotorTrend, it sure looks like instant shifts when the paddles are pulled.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/ride-...ro-zl1-wvideo/

I was looking at from the prospective of how heavy duty it is.. Its unlikely the tech is better than a dual clutch. Just the process of how a dual clutch works vs a torque converter automatic is different.

I think GM/FORD can probably stuff this in the Heavy duty trucks...

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

i agree.

but usually when there are this many perf cars from this many makes we are heading towards a recession. there is simply too many cars spread out too thin.

i predict there will be markdowns all across the board in the coming years.

I wouldn't say that.. Just GM has a thing of copy and paste

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

According to http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-transmission/ .. this transmission was principally designed by Ford:

(note the date of this publication is December 1, 2014)

..."Lately there has been a lot of speculation on what the Ford Motor Company has been up to with their 10 speed transmission design. All we know is that there is a joint venture between Ford and GM to develop the next generation 10 speed transmission for next generation RWD trucks and cars ..."

... "General Motors has officially partnered up with Ford to use this design in the future. Ford appears to be leading this design effort, and in return GM appears to be leading the design effort for the 9 speed FWD transmissions. Though the GM 8L family is an excellent design in its own right, but perhaps the economies of scale inherent in a partnership are attractive enough for them to adopt this design after a relatively short time with the 8L family ...

..."While it is possible that this transmission shows up for 2016 model year in late 2015, it seems more likely that it actually does not show up till the middle of 2016 for 2017 model year vehicles ..."

Pretty much right on all counts. I'm also surmising that this transmission will also find its way into the GT350 and upcoming GT500.

GT500 yes.. GT350, I wonder if this can deal with that many revs

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by FC

Um, the ATS-V sedan also has four doors. I see no reason to kill that car. And to the extent that that car lives, why kill the coupe?

If you had 65k... which would you buy the ATS-V Coupe or this? Cadillac should of gotten the best of the best.

[04cobra]

Eagerly waiting Ford to announce the GT500....before I comment on this.

I don't know why anyone would purchase a Cadillac over this car. I hate GM a lot, but they are starting to knock it out of the park.