Installing an Essex AP Racing 9668 Kit... So much drool!

[FlyingLow78]

I drive my car to-from the track and have tried swapping the pads at the track and using the race pads 100% of the time. The street pads have more cold bite, but the tradeoff is that I have to complete a total bedding process before going on the track. Race pads don’t like to work when cold, make more noise and resonance, and might wear the rotors more quickly. I can’t give you an accurate account of how long they last because I swap things around so much. I definitely recommend the pad tensioners if you’re driving on the street. I refuse to go to-from the track without them because the pads make a ton of clunking noise.

[biofluke]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I use mine daily on the street but I don't drive the car in the winter. Performance on the street is great. Feels just like stock to me. Haven't tracked yet but that was the obvious reason to get the kit (and the ability to use 18" wheels). I'm using the DS2500 on the street and they are great in my opinion. Given that these rotors are meant to take the abuse of track and a track pad that will inevitably be harder on rotors than a street pad I don't think you need to worry about increased wear from the street.

I do recommend the pad tensioners for the street if you want to maintain streetability. You won't hear the pads rattling around as you drive with the windows down. Even with the pad tensioners you will still hear the pads set into place if you are parking or are just setting off on your drive but once driving, you won't.

I will definitely be doing a review once I get these on the track.

Do you plan on running the DS2500 on the track as well? I've heard they are a trackable street pad, especially on 300tw tires (tires will likely get greasy before pad fade, unfortunately).

I have these on my 9660/9446 setup as well and am debating trying one track event with them to see how they are before getting the DSUNO, DS1.1, or even DS3.12 (new), or PFC11. But was thinking of waiting until I run my more track oriented RE71Rs. Tough call.

[M2 GT]

I have some experience tracking with DS2500. My suggestion is: don't do it. I am using the 3.12 both on track and street, they are incredible, and are wearing quite nicely.

Originally Posted by biofluke

Do you plan on running the DS2500 on the track as well? I've heard they are a trackable street pad, especially on 300tw tires (tires will likely get greasy before pad fade, unfortunately).

I have these on my 9660/9446 setup as well and am debating trying one track event with them to see how they are before getting the DSUNO, DS1.1, or even DS3.12 (new), or PFC11. But was thinking of waiting until I run my more track oriented RE71Rs. Tough call.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by M2 GT

I have some experience tracking with DS2500. My suggestion is: don't do it. I am using the 3.12 both on track and street, they are incredible, and are wearing quite nicely.

Agree the 3.12 are awesome on track and acceptable noise on street. The issue here might be the “bite“ could overwhelm the street oriented tire. See chart.

I swap tires at the track and this “bite” on the street doesn’t bother me, but to each his own.

[M2 GT]

Exactly, my ABS seems to kick in a lot more using street tires. I also don't mind them on the street, aside from the fact the dust chew up my wheels and I pretty much have no brakes getting out of the garage lol.

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Agree the 3.12 are awesome on track and acceptable noise on street. The issue here might be the “bite“ could overwhelm the street oriented tire. See chart.

I swap tires at the track and this “bite” on the street doesn’t bother me, but to each his own.

[bimmerboyE92]

I'm going to ask here as I am pleased with my AP 9668/9449 setup with DSUNO pads except for the following. I feel like I need to exert more pedal effort to achieve ABS threshold. Is this due to pad choice or is this how they are? Do they need to break in more? Only 1 real track day or 4 sessions on them.

The pedal is high, very firm, and the initial bite is reassuring. I just feel like I'm pushing harder on the pedal than I did with the stock calipers. Wondering if I should switch pads to the 3.12s or back to my old faithful Hawk DTC-70.

I also checked the piston sizes and AP is 50.1cm^2 and the stock calipers is 50.2cm^2. That's nearly identical!

[Mospeada]

will AP 99668 clear 763M wheels on CS? AP? 9660 should clear no problem right?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Mospeada

will AP 99668 clear 763M wheels on CS? AP? 9660 should clear no problem right?

9668 should fit no problem. Lots of space behind 666M. It's a massive caliper, but doesn't extend out quite as much as you might think once mounted.

fanatic1 runs these on his CS, but not sure about with stock wheels

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Mospeada

will AP 99668 clear 763M wheels on CS? AP? 9660 should clear no problem right?

9668 clear 763M 19 inch wheels just fine on the front

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

I'm going to ask here as I am pleased with my AP 9668/9449 setup with DSUNO pads except for the following. I feel like I need to exert more pedal effort to achieve ABS threshold. Is this due to pad choice or is this how they are? Do they need to break in more? Only 1 real track day or 4 sessions on them.

The pedal is high, very firm, and the initial bite is reassuring. I just feel like I'm pushing harder on the pedal than I did with the stock calipers. Wondering if I should switch pads to the 3.12s or back to my old faithful Hawk DTC-70.

I also checked the piston sizes and AP is 50.1cm^2 and the stock calipers is 50.2cm^2. That's nearly identical!

I found the DSUNO to be quite sensitive to brake inputs and until you adjust to them, tend to invoke ABS too frequently. I would suggest something is not right here.

Having said that, 3.12 is even better, defined as better heat management and more consistent pedal pressure. The offset, with street oriented tires, you have to be very sensitive with brake pressure. And as others have mentioned, brake dust is plentiful.....

In order of bite
3.12
DSUNO
SD1.11
2500 (no personal experience)

[Mospeada]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

9668 clear 763M 19 inch wheels just fine on the front

awesome, 9668 it is then. as for pads, i'd like to go with "street' so i can drive to the track but once i get to the track, what would be good? i don't want something extreme, prefer PFC08/11 type in terms of bite & modulation, etc.

how long do these 1" pads last at the track? how many events or hours at the track? thanks

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Mospeada

awesome, 9668 it is then. as for pads, i'd like to go with "street' so i can drive to the track but once i get to the track, what would be good? i don't want something extreme, prefer PFC08/11 type in terms of bite & modulation, etc.

how long do these 1" pads last at the track? how many events or hours at the track? thanks

This will vary dramatically based on the tracks you visit and your driving style.

These pads will last about 50% longer than the 18mm pads. Based on your preference, I would suggest DS1.11 - but like PFC08, these will not be quiet on the street. For street, DS2500 works pretty good. There are a ton of pad options for this set up, I just haven’t tried other brands on this kit.

[Mospeada]

one more question, did you have to remove brake dust shield on stock M3/4 with AP BBK? front and rear? or did you just take caliper and rotors off and left others as itis? looking at the dimention of AP rotors they're actually smaller than stock rotors so i'm guessing i can leave the dust shields on as it is and AP kit will just drop in (front and rear) w/o any other mods, right?

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Mospeada

one more question, did you have to remove brake dust shield on stock M3/4 with AP BBK? front and rear? or did you just take caliper and rotors off and left others as itis? looking at the dimention of AP rotors they're actually smaller than stock rotors so i'm guessing i can leave the dust shields on as it is and AP kit will just drop in (front and rear) w/o any other mods, right?

Originally Posted by Mospeada

one more question, did you have to remove brake dust shield on stock M3/4 with AP BBK? front and rear? or did you just take caliper and rotors off and left others as itis? looking at the dimention of AP rotors they're actually smaller than stock rotors so i'm guessing i can leave the dust shields on as it is and AP kit will just drop in (front and rear) w/o any other mods, right?

AP racing recommends removing the dust shields and it makes sense. Unless you're putting in ducting, you'll get better airflow without the dust shields.

Caveat on clearance with 763M; I think I used 10mm spacers - not for clearance, but for gap.

[Mospeada]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

AP racing recommends removing the dust shields and it makes sense. Unless you're putting in ducting, you'll get better airflow without the dust shields.

Caveat on clearance with 763M; I think I used 10mm spacers - not for clearance, but for gap.

hmm, since I drive to and from track, etc. (300+ miles one way, 10 times a year), i still drive considerably on the street, so wouldn't removing the shield be bad? plus rock, dirt, water get in get and lodged between rotor and pads?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Mospeada

hmm, since I drive to and from track, etc. (300+ miles one way, 10 times a year), i still drive considerably on the street, so wouldn't removing the shield be bad? plus rock, dirt, water get in get and lodged between rotor and pads?

You can opt to trim and bend instead of removing. (Won't fit otherwise.)

It's true by removing you're increasing exposure of braking components to those elements, but of course there's more than one way in. Braking systems are engineered with road grime and water taken into account.

On the upside you'll gain cooling at the track -- to a pretty substantial degree based upon what I've perceived.

Note that Essex recommends removal, they know what they're doing.

Essex recommends removal of the factory backing plate behind the OE disc. This plate significantly reduces the airflow into the disc center.

If you choose not to remove the backing plate, you must bend or remove the ears of the plate near the caliper mounting ears for the AP Racing caliper to fit. You may also need to bend the plate slightly inward near the lower ball joint and tie rod end to clear the disc

[Mospeada]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You can opt to trim and bend instead of removing. (Won't fit otherwise.)

It's true by removing you're increasing exposure of braking components to those elements, but of course there's more than one way in. Braking systems are engineered with road grime and water taken into account.

On the upside you'll gain cooling at the track -- to a pretty substantial degree based upon what I've perceived.

Note that Essex recommends removal, they know what they're doing.

Essex recommends removal of the factory backing plate behind the OE disc. This plate significantly reduces the airflow into the disc center.

If you choose not to remove the backing plate, you must bend or remove the ears of the plate near the caliper mounting ears for the AP Racing caliper to fit. You may also need to bend the plate slightly inward near the lower ball joint and tie rod end to clear the disc

yes i plan to remove it then. it's not a daily, it's a track machine. thanks all

[biofluke]

I didnt specify to my shop and they just cut the dust shield to get it to fit.

The whole point of me buying these brakes is greater heat tolerance and reducing pad fade. If removing the dust shields improved brake cooling and performance so much, why don't people just do that for stock brakes if they track their cars often?

Now I'm stuck in a dilemma of whether I go and disassemble the whole brake setup to remove the dust shields. I wish there was some way to quantify what the impact to cooling would be by leaving them on. If I'm honest with myself, my car is on the street 95% of the time and the track 5%. I have been doing about 6 track days a year and driving the car every weekend and to work once a week.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by biofluke

I didnt specify to my shop and they just cut the dust shield to get it to fit.

The whole point of me buying these brakes is greater heat tolerance and reducing pad fade. If removing the dust shields improved brake cooling and performance so much, why don't people just do that for stock brakes if they track their cars often?

Now I'm stuck in a dilemma of whether I go and disassemble the whole brake setup to remove the dust shields. I wish there was some way to quantify what the impact to cooling would be by leaving them on. If I'm honest with myself, my car is on the street 95% of the time and the track 5%. I have been doing about 6 track days a year and driving the car every weekend and to work once a week.

Some do. Since already installed, I'd run the system as is first and track temps, see if you might meaningfully benefit from removal https://www.essexparts.com/caliper-t...trips-300-500f

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Some do. Since already installed, I'd run the system as is first and track temps, see if you might meaningfully benefit from removal https://www.essexparts.com/caliper-t...trips-300-500f

Temp strips in action - after Laguna Seca

[biofluke]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Temp strips in action - after Laguna Seca

Love the custom green caliper paint

So you saw about a 10degC benefit from going to the Essex/AP Racing kit? Is that with or without dust shields?

We also have to remember that these are peak temperatures. I imagine with the Essex kit, the temps would drop off much faster than the stock calipers due to their materials and design.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by biofluke

Love the custom green caliper paint

So you saw about a 10degC benefit from going to the Essex/AP Racing kit? Is that with or without dust shields?

We also have to remember that these are peak temperatures. I imagine with the Essex kit, the temps would drop off much faster than the stock calipers due to their materials and design.

Based on pad wear alone, the front brakes are definitely doing more than their fair share of the stopping. Just for balance reasons, considering doing the Essex 9449 rear kit. Others that run the front and rear kit together have mentioned better brake balance.

For sure, the Essex rotors run quite a bit cooler. when I come into the pits, usually about 200 F cooler front versus rear.

Finally, have not found any brake pad that could stand the heat of Laguna on the stock calipers. Essex kit is the first time I was able to run more than a couple Hot laps in a row at Laguna.