How much did you mod your leased car?

[jwar93]

When I originally got my F80, I told myself I didn't need to mod it - it's an M3! A few short months later came the BMS Intakes..Said I was done after that, had my turbo noises...then came a lip and rear CF spoiler and just last week put a diffuser on. Have a JB4 that has been sitting in my Garage waiting for the winter wheels to come off before going on, and some Swift Spec-R springs waiting for my new summer set up that is on its way. Tints of course as well. Who knows what's next! Unfortunately the mod bug has bitten me and I'm sure I'll end up doing WAY too much!

My 340xi that I had before the M3 had the following on it:
20% tint all the way around
Poly front lip
CF Rear spoiler
H&R Sport Springs
BMW MPPSK

Great car...but then I decided I needed an M3 for my birthday last year!

[G-AZ-M4]

With no professional assistance or related training, I have mounted a temporary, replaceable, forced air deodorization module that provides for improved redolence throughout the vehicle. The improvement was immediate and noticeable.

(I hung a Febreze clip on the passenger side vent)

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by kdu3

This thread is a perfect example why I will never buy a used BMW again. Having said that, all the cars look great!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I have never had a dealer care (just better have tires that have some tread). Also if it is white/black/grey they have always let me do a lot when I ask up front. I have lowered and tuned two leases for example.

With the F80 it is so good out of the box all I did was MPE, tint, spacers, front grilles, valve controller.

Who "let you do it"? The dealer?

Cause you didn't sign a contract with them and they're not BMWNA or BMWFS, sooo ... what the fuck do they care if you break your lease contract and violate the warranty terms? I also give you my permission to alter your leased car. Go for it!

FYI: It is literally in black and white: BMWFS (if that's who your lease is with) says no mods of any sort ever for all time, ever. That includes anything. Ever.

So if you modded your car with anything, you violated your lease contract. (except for stinky up there, G-AZ-M4, he's good despite his odor.)

Now, will BMWFS's agent make note of that fact and refuse the return, at the time of return?

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Who "let you do it"? The dealer?

Cause you didn't sign a contract with them and they're not BMWNA or BMWFS, sooo ... what the fuck do they care if you break your lease contract and violate the warranty terms? I also give you my permission to alter your leased car. Go for it!

FYI: It is literally in black and white: BMWFS (if that's who your lease is with) says no mods of any sort ever for all time, ever. That includes anything. Ever.

So if you modded your car with anything, you violated your lease contract. (except for stinky up there, G-AZ-M4, he's good despite his odor.)

Now, will BMWFS's agent make note of that fact and refuse the return, at the time of return?

What section of the lease agreement does it state verbatim no mods? Only contract terms I see is agreeing "not to make alterations that decreases the Vehicles value or usefulness or violates the law. If I add non-standard equipment to the Vehicle, I will return it to original manufacturer specifications before the end of the Lease Term". Section 22.

How is BMW going to prove that a mod decreased the value, as this is subjective? Maybe a future customer feels that flash tune adds value?

My ED F83 passed through US customs, VDC prep and PC prep with bench flash tune & catless downpipe, as your aware installed during ED- drove from the West to the tuner. No one picked this up.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

What section of the lease agreement does it state verbatim no mods? Only contract terms I see is agreeing "not to make alterations that decreases the Vehicles value or usefulness or violates the law. If I add non-standard equipment to the Vehicle, I will return it to original manufacturer specifications before the end of the Lease Term". Section 22.

That and in section 21: "I will not physically change the Vehicle's body or interior in any way unless I first get your written consent." Also in excessive wear and use, and few other places if I remember.

Here's the thing: they don't have to prove dick. BMWFS can say you violated the contract because there's open enough language in there for them to do it, and can take any action they feel like and now it's a battle of attorneys, yours vs theirs. And if this happens at return time, they'll have the car too.

The probability of any of this is low, but it increases with mods that get closer to the mechanicals. If you don't mod, you've got no worries, if you mod you're taking chances.

I know a guy right now who's making his lease payments since November with a blown engine that had Dinan mods. BMWNA says no warranty because the car is modded and Dinan is insisting that BMWNA send them a letter stating it was Dinan that caused the failure and without it, they're not covering it. Is there more to the story?

But that's the game.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That and in section 21: "I will not physically change the Vehicle's body or interior in any way unless I first get your written consent." Also in excessive wear and use, and few other places if I remember.

Here's the thing: they don't have to prove dick. BMWFS can say you violated the contract because there's open enough language in there for them to do it, and can take any action they feel like and now it's a battle of attorneys, yours vs theirs. And if this happens at return time, they'll have the car too.

Issue is that Section 21 and 22 are ambiguous. It would be up the courts to interupt, as I'm sure there is case law backing up the lessee. Does BMW FS aprove either PIA or dealer installed accessories? No.

I know that the arbitration clause won't hold up in South Carolina as its adhesive, one-sided, and unconsciable, as there is case law holding. BMWFS wouldn't want this dispute in the open public domain. BMW FS couldn't motion to move venue from State to Federal Court as the amount in despite would probably be less than $75,000 (depreciation would take the value below $75,000 when BMW FS releaized at lease end) nor is their a Federal question. Only diversity of cititizenship.

Whats the recourse for BMWFS if you violate the contract? Are they actually going to cancel the lease contract and repo the vehicle?

Section 21 makes no mention to flash/piggy back tunes, air filters, DP, suspensions. Physically change is not specific to permanent or temporary, as I would interrupted this as permanent.

The lease contract languge hasn't been updated in years to reflect recent state cases, as it appears to be the same boiler plate contract since my 1st lease in 2004.

The Dinan mods is a whole other issue separate from BMW NA/BMW FS. Dinan was purchased by private equity, so of course they are going to deny warranty claims. Best is to go the cheaper OBDII flash tune route and self insure, saving yourself the Dinan 'mark-up'. Gotta pay to play. We have debated this before. Keep us updated of your friends situation.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Who "let you do it"? The dealer?

Cause you didn't sign a contract with them and they're not BMWNA or BMWFS, sooo ... what the fuck do they care if you break your lease contract and violate the warranty terms? I also give you my permission to alter your leased car. Go for it!

FYI: It is literally in black and white: BMWFS (if that's who your lease is with) says no mods of any sort ever for all time, ever. That includes anything. Ever.

So if you modded your car with anything, you violated your lease contract. (except for stinky up there, G-AZ-M4, he's good despite his odor.)

Now, will BMWFS's agent make note of that fact and refuse the return, at the time of return?

To be fair I have a great relationship with a few BMW dealers and they had to ok a few mods that consisted of tint, springs, exhaust, and light tune done by dealer. This is over 15 years of buying a lot of cars. Remember the Dinan days...

I have only turned in one BMW lease as I am usually so low on miles that it makes more sense to buy and then sell privately. The one car that was turned in the dealer said it would not be able to CPO the car, but because of color and good condition it was fine.

I also leased an Audi and did a full Stasis package on it and it was all in my lease. That car was modded heavily by the dealer, and was marketed as such, by the dealer.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

To be fair I have a great relationship with a few BMW dealers and they had to ok a few mods that consisted of tint, springs, exhaust, and light tune done by dealer. T

Ok, but remember your dealer is NOT BMW and can't "ok" anything when it comes to your BMWNA warranty and your BMWFS lease. The dealer doesn't speak for BMWAG, BMWNA, nor BMWFS and none of them care about your relationship with your dealer, or your girlfriend, or your mom.

Further, BMWNA doesn't care if your dealer installed your mods or if your grandmother did - if they want to deny you warranty coverage they can and will. Your dealer has zero standing on your BMW warranty and they can't "ok" anything - if they say they can, they're liars.

The only mod you can install risk-free and consistent with your warranty and lease is one that you have written consent to do so from BMWNA on your warranty and BMWFS on your lease.

If you risk it and mod anyway, what your dealer can do is forget to mention mods that could violate your warranty during service ... and/or possibly remove them without mentioning it if you have a problem. Here's the problem with that: if push comes to shove, the dealer won't lie for you - if BMWNA asks if you had mods, the dealer is going to say yes, and then you're fucked. This happens all the time. If you mod, you're at risk.


Now, your existing car with the MPE ...

The attorney I'm sleeping with has a theory on the sum of the lease language: it's just slightly vague enough to allow for "non-standard" equipment like your MPE, but specific enough to allow them to crucify you if they want. Said differently they're covered if they sell you lots of mods AND if you put on lots of mods they don't sell you.

Here's an interesting scenario:

The market takes a shit
Car loans start defaulting
Car values plummet
Leases start coming back in
BMWFS decides to tell return dealers to reject any car with any mods - could that be a thing?

That's why you never put money down on a lease and you never mod in a way your (return) dealer knows about

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Issue is that Section 21 and 22 are ambiguous. It would be up the courts to interupt, as I'm sure there is case law backing up the lessee.

And the standard for that interpretation would be if a judge felt an average reasonable person would agree that a tune "physically altered the interior or body of the car" or not.

If you consider the standard of an "average reasonable person" is, say, your mom who I'm assuming doesn't know shit about cars ... which side of that argument would you want to be on?

But if you think you could cast doubt on that clause, you'd have to get to court to even make the case which would cost you huge money. And BMWNA at least, has no qualms about taking shit all the way to the Supreme Court (BMWNA v Gore). BMWFS is probably much more willing to tangle. And I think there isn't much ambiguity - BMWFS will say that those two clauses are not in conflict because if you did secure their written permission in clause #1, then you must be able to return the car to stock per clause #2.

Further, as I replied in the other post, the lawyer I sleep with believes the language is designed slightly ambiguous to allow them cover for just about anything they want (like sell you an MPE but still nail you on the bootmod) ... and the remedy in the lease says BMWFS "can pursue any other remedy permitted by law"

"any remedy" sounds pretty expensive.

But this all academic because it's pretty low probability stuff ...

Still, "l will not physically change the Vehicle's body or interior in any way unless I first get your written consent" seems pretty fucking unambiguous to me.

[Ibiza]

@GrussGott I would just represent myself per se, copy/cut/paste pleadings from LexusNexius and use WestLaw for the document templates. I'm well aware of [I]Bmw of N. Am. v. Gore, 517 U.S. 559, 116 S. Ct. 1589 (1996)[I].

Personally, as a serial leaser BMW would just look the other way, just like the Centers do at lease turn in.

[jninja]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

@GrussGott I would just represent myself per se, copy/cut/paste pleadings from LexusNexius and use WestLaw for the document templates. I'm well aware of [I]Bmw of N. Am. v. Gore, 517 U.S. 559, 116 S. Ct. 1589 (1996)[I].

Personally, as a serial leaser BMW would just look the other way, just like the Centers do at lease turn in.

I think you mean "pro se"

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by jninja

I think you mean "pro se"

Correct. Using the app, but get my point.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

@GrussGott I would just represent myself per se, copy/cut/paste pleadings from LexusNexius and use WestLaw for the document templates. I'm well aware of [I]Bmw of N. Am. v. Gore, 517 U.S. 559, 116 S. Ct. 1589 (1996)[I].

Personally, as a serial leaser BMW would just look the other way, just like the Centers do at lease turn in.

Yeah, you could try all of that ...

On the plus side you'd have the fact that the lease is on "their paper" and ambiguity in those cases falls in your favor, and if there are favorable statutes or common law (binding decisions from other courts in cases with a similar fact pattern) that encourages a judge to rule in your favor for consistency. Plus, maybe the judge is a gearhead!

On the negative side you have the fact that the lease language is pretty clear and the standard of interpretation will therefore likely be an "average reasonable person" and you get a Judge Judy type that dismisses you in a nanosecond for making physical alterations to the car.

And you're right that in normal times, everyone just looks away because it's in everyone's interest to do so.

Yet the risk is in abnormal times like a recession or collapse of the used car market... Those are the cases where BMWFS might decide that any mod is "unreasonable wear" and hit you for "any remedy the law allows". This could allow them to ruin your credit and get judgements against you - and that's the exact cascade of stuff you want to avoid in abnormal times.

Which is the benefit of the lease in the first place: the ability to walk away on pre-negotiated terms, leaving the financial risk on BMWFS, not you.

[urinecharge]

Going back to the basics of this post -- as long as it is removed before bringing the car to the dealer, does the flash tuning void warranty? Can they prove that it was used?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by urinecharge

Going back to the basics of this post -- as long as it is removed before bringing the car to the dealer, does the flash tuning void warranty? Can they prove that it was used?

A flash tune violates the lease contract (if you lease) and puts your warranty at high risk (there's no "automatic void"). Keep in mind, BMWNA doesn't have to prove anything to deny you warranty work - if they think you had a flash tune they can (and will and do) deny warranty work. (and they can look at the telemetry to make their guess)

From there it'll be up to YOU to prove THEM wrong. While your car sits idle and you make payments on it.

Somehow (vendors and dealers lying) people got the notion that they have leverage in this relationship - you don't. Nothing gives you leverage, including moss-magusson or any of the other tunerbro-logic.

You chip, you risk, including with Dinan.

BMWNA holds all the cards. They approve or deny warranty work at their discretion and if you disagree, you'll have to fight them over it while your car sits idle ... or you pay for the repairs yourself, and then attempt to get them to reimburse you. <-

[mmic77]

My lease ended today. The modding began after a few month :

- M Performance diffusor
- M Performance splitter PU (broken) —> CF (broken ) —> PU
- M Performance exhaust
- M Performance black kidneys

[urinecharge]

thanks for the prompt reply -- so even with a flash tune they have ways of detecting that it was used?
Pick up my ZCP this week (leased) and was debating the addition of an ESS Stage 1 flash tuner -- but I may chicken out if there's a way it can be detected at the dealership during service

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by urinecharge

thanks for the prompt reply -- so even with a flash tune they have ways of detecting that it was used?
Pick up my ZCP this week (leased) and was debating the addition of an ESS Stage 1 flash tuner -- but I may chicken out if there's a way it can be detected at the dealership during service

Your top worry isn't the dealer detecting at service, but that's a good worry if your dealer is the gabby type ("changed oil, client appears to have tuned his car").

Your top worry is if you run into expensive engine / drivetrain trouble. Then they'll pull the telemetry and if anything looks abnormal they can deny you right there - they don't need to go any farther than that to deny you warranty work.

If you're worried about having warranty work denied, don't tune!

Honestly every tuned car I've run against, I've beaten, (and I have a 'vert!) because people who tune typically don't know how to actually drive their cars which is why they want the tune in the first place.

but it's up to you, urinecharge.

[IM2C]

Only minor cosmetic stuff. Black M3 badge, black kidney grills, side reflectors and red stop button. 30% tint.

18 YMB ZCP on order, will do port installed lip, CF splitters and rear spoiler.
This time I'll do clear bra and tint, of course.

I truly enjoy watching other people mod their cars. Sometimes they know when to leave good enough alone, other times not so much. Modding outcome is in the eye of the beholder.

[DML]

Originally Posted by f80

Only minor cosmetic stuff. Black M3 badge, black kidney grills, side reflectors and red stop button. 30% tint.

18 YMB ZCP on order, will do port installed lip, CF splitters and rear spoiler.
This time I'll do clear bra and tint, of course.

I truly enjoy watching other people mod their cars. Sometimes they know when to leave good enough alone, other times not so much. Modding outcome is in the eye of the beholder.

Never get busted for OEM cosmetics, CF all in good taste. Really tempted to drop considering atrocious gap but doing my best to refrain, unneeded hassle.

[IM2C]

Originally Posted by DML

Never get busted for OEM cosmetics, CF all in good taste. Really tempted to drop considering atrocious gap but doing my best to refrain, unneeded hassle.

I totally get the temptation to drop. I was pretty sure I would drop my 16 f80, but wisely waited to see how much it would bother me. It didn't. I guess I'm getting old.

I think I will almost certainly do the 10mm spacers this time around.
Easy on/off.