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      12-02-2014, 10:41 AM   #1
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Car & Driver Long-Term M3

This should be interesting. New gen intro: Hate... Love... Repeat.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review
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      12-02-2014, 12:03 PM   #2
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no comment on the carbon ceramics in the article at all
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      12-02-2014, 12:05 PM   #3
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personally, I find it hard to justify paying 82k for an m3 regardless of the options

horrible representation of the m3, and the value it CAN provide to a buyer

regardless, seems like C and D isn't a fan of the new m, and that's ok. will be interesting to see how or if their impressions change in a positive or negative way
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      12-02-2014, 12:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
personally, I find it hard to justify paying 82k for an m3 regardless of the options

horrible representation of the m3, and the value it CAN provide to a buyer

regardless, seems like C and D isn't a fan of the new m, and that's ok. will be interesting to see how or if their impressions change in a positive or negative way
I haven't read the link yet, but would find it odd that they don't like it now considering this article http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/m3
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      12-02-2014, 12:24 PM   #5
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Nice, I suspect it will win them over especially since it's a 6 MT. However the overall clinical feel is real and so is the lack of steering feel. So I don't expect them to rate it near perfect but I'm pretty sure it's stout and well matched engine and chassis will prove rather irresistible and it will become a popular car among their staff.

Will be interresting to follow. Thanks for posting!
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      12-02-2014, 01:15 PM   #6
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Too many of the test cars are coming with the ceramic brakes. I know this one was ordered by C&D, but still. They are great, but really lower the perceived value of the car when looking at MSRP without the option breakdown. Not optioning the brakes takes a $81K car to a more reasonable $73K, about what this car should be priced at with a few options. And that's before discounts, ED, etc.

I have seen 5-6 M3/4's on the road and not one of them had the ceramics. Id really like to see what the ceramic vs non-ceramic number breakdown is a few years into production. I have a feeling the ceramics will be heavily sought after on the used market in a few years, if there are any to find.
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      12-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damasconian View Post
Too many of the test cars are coming with the ceramic brakes. I know this one was ordered by C&D, but still. They are great, but really lower the perceived value of the car when looking at MSRP without the option breakdown. Not optioning the brakes takes a $81K car to a more reasonable $73K, about what this car should be priced at with a few options. And that's before discounts, ED, etc.

I have seen 5-6 M3/4's on the road and not one of them had the ceramics. Id really like to see what the ceramic vs non-ceramic number breakdown is a few years into production. I have a feeling the ceramics will be heavily sought after on the used market in a few years, if there are any to find.
Agreed. CCBs are great for reviewers flailing them around on the track (hence all the 'tick that box' reviews) but just expensive and much less useful for 99% of the use of this car. So any review that looks at value will not appreciate those; further, they are so expensive relative to the rest of the car that their inclusion can have a big overall impact.

But, whatevs. Car and Driver have been wrong about other cars before (Infiniti G37 anyone? PT Cruiser? 300M? The 1994 Lexus SC? Good lord. The worst car ever, and there it is on their fecking list....) so I am not going to be overly fussed whichever way they go (or by their decision to drop the 3 series in favour of the M235, which probably is a better car anyway, if much, much more niche)
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      12-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damasconian View Post

I have seen 5-6 M3/4's on the road and not one of them had the ceramics. Id really like to see what the ceramic vs non-ceramic number breakdown is a few years into production. I have a feeling the ceramics will be heavily sought after on the used market in a few years, if there are any to find.
And it would seem the non-press cars with ceramics would be more desirable, although not to the tune of $8000.
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      12-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #9
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I will get in on record before they say anything bad and I am accused of biased info:


Screw Car and Driver. They are almost behind Automobile now in terms of their usefulness.
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      12-02-2014, 02:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf
I will get in on record before they say anything bad and I am accused of biased info:


Screw Car and Driver. They are almost behind Automobile now in terms of their usefulness.
I agree.
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      12-02-2014, 02:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Nice, I suspect it will win them over especially since it's a 6 MT. However the overall clinical feel is real and so is the lack of steering feel. So I don't expect them to rate it near perfect but I'm pretty sure it's stout and well matched engine and chassis will prove rather irresistible and it will become a popular car among their staff.

Will be interresting to follow. Thanks for posting!
Really you think the 6MT is what will win them over? I hope thats not the only thing that makes this car good.
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      12-02-2014, 02:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damasconian View Post
I have a feeling the ceramics will be heavily sought after on the used market in a few years, if there are any to find.
My guess is that the more popular route will be purchasing the caliper and other required retrofit parts and aftermarket iron rotors
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      12-02-2014, 02:15 PM   #13
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the m4/m3 can be one hell of a "bargain"
I picked up an m4 with the essentials: 19s, hk, dct, and adaptive for 63.2k+TTL... i cant think of any new car that offers this much for that price.
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      12-02-2014, 02:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
My guess is that the more popular route will be purchasing the caliper and other required retrofit parts and aftermarket iron rotors
If I were going to use the car for the track and thought iron rotors preferable, why not purchase the M with iron rotors in the first place and avoid the retrofit costs?
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      12-02-2014, 02:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Really you think the 6MT is what will win them over? I hope thats not the only thing that makes this car good.
It's not the only thing but I think it helps. The 6 MT in this car is very good and it provides a more involving experience to a car that in some ways is a bit more distant and clinical than earlier M3s. It certainly helped and still helps make up for for some of what I perceive has been lost vs my E90 M3 with DCT.
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      12-02-2014, 02:37 PM   #16
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Not to mention that C&D is constantly professing their love for manuals. So, it's going to have a positive impact for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's not the only thing but I think it helps. The 6 MT in this car is very good and it provides a more involving experience to a car that in some ways is a bit more distant and clinical than earlier M3s. It certainly helped and still helps make up for for some of what I perceive has been lost vs my E90 M3 with DCT.
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      12-02-2014, 02:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smedin View Post
Not to mention that C&D is constantly professing their love for manuals. So, it's going to have a positive impact for them.
But Chris Harris said he would buy a DCT and he has the ultimate opinion. You guys are just wrong accept it. DCT is the transmission of the GODS. BOW BENEATH IT!
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      12-02-2014, 03:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SapphireSiC View Post
If I were going to use the car for the track and thought iron rotors preferable, why not purchase the M with iron rotors in the first place and avoid the retrofit costs?
to use a bigger rotor and a different (better?) caliper
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      12-02-2014, 05:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
I will get in on record before they say anything bad and I am accused of biased info:


Screw Car and Driver. They are almost behind Automobile now in terms of their usefulness.

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      12-02-2014, 08:26 PM   #20
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Wow...the reviews are all over the place. This is quite a polarizing car. I wonder what that will mean down the road?

I agree on the options. This car has plenty enough in the base price. It is a good value at the base price but the paid options are just fluff.

I'm not complaining though. It seems many people are optioning the cars pretty well which I think will keep depreciation lower on strippers.

I also noticed the article says the leather was no cost...definitely an error.

Last edited by Accel Junky; 12-02-2014 at 08:33 PM..
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      12-02-2014, 08:40 PM   #21
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C&D has been pooping on the E30/F80 for a few years now….they don't like the new direction of BMW and this is seen in many reviews. Actually the same year the E90 M3 won its last comparo, they ran two reviews of the F30 stating that in a comparison with the base E90, the E90 would win (thus is hardly an argument for shifting ad dollars "paying" for reviews).

For anyone thinks that C&D doesn't matter, IMO I still think they're the best US publication and over the years have provided some pretty good, honest reviews that in general get a lot of corroboration from other journos, enthusiasts and race drivers alike. I guarantee you, certain members of management at BMW do care that the 3 series was knocked off the 10 best list. C&D was so "irrelevant" that every BMW dealership used to carry excerpts of their articles and 10 best lists for distribution. until now I guess.. Oops..
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      12-02-2014, 09:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accel Junky View Post
I agree on the options. This car has plenty enough in the base price. It is a good value at the base price but the paid options are just fluff.
This * 1000. The car comes pretty well loaded without adding any of the options. Lightly optioned you can easily keep the car in the low 70s without giving up anything truly earth shattering.
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