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      11-16-2017, 04:36 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Anybody have any idea when they are actually going to release the price of the CSs? And why the long wait?
They are not quite sure how they are going to break to CanAutM3....
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      11-16-2017, 04:38 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by buddalun View Post
The new 991.2 911T would have been a better comparison for the M4 CS. Similar price points, power, and "stripped-down," back to the basics vibe. Just my .02
My guess is it would have still lost, lets just face it Porsche make better cars than BMW.

It's no shame, just how it is.
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      11-16-2017, 04:45 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by bsas340i View Post
I've grown to love Porsches because of the company's dedication to racing. At the same time, I'm sure some of their hardcore fans are not too proud of their precious badge adorning the hood of a $60,000 4-cylinder SUV.
I think everyone's over it, and those hardcore customers buy the Cayenne to park next to their 911 (which apparently like a 3rd or 4th car for most owners)

I say customers since they are who really matter. FANS can say whatever the F they want...
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      11-16-2017, 06:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I think everyone's over it, and those hardcore customers buy the Cayenne to park next to their 911 (which apparently like a 3rd or 4th car for most owners)

I say customers since they are who really matter. FANS can say whatever the F they want...
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      11-16-2017, 07:04 PM   #93
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Here’s my thinking...At the same price point (for the most part - actually more expensive as a base car) in a more hardcore car, power, wing, tires, full coil over set up suspension, the M4 GTS cannot and does not come close to matching what I think is an ideal daily driver and weekend track juggernaut in the 911 GTS. Didn’t the Carrera GTS run low 7:20s on a cup tire in Sport Autos Testing? How many other sub 500 cars can do that? How many sub 600 hp cars can do that? How many track day specials still can’t run that? Those tell me how elevated the 911 performance really is when you compare.
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      11-16-2017, 07:25 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Here’s my thinking...At the same price point (for the most part - actually more expensive as a base car) in a more hardcore car, power, wing, tires, full coil over set up suspension, the M4 GTS cannot and does not come close to matching what I think is an ideal daily driver and weekend track juggernaut in the 911 GTS. Didn’t the Carrera GTS run low 7:20s on a cup tire in Sport Autos Testing? How many other sub 500 cars can do that? How many sub 600 hp cars can do that? How many track day specials still can’t run that? Those tell me how elevated the 911 performance really is when you compare.
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      11-16-2017, 07:29 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsas340i View Post
I've grown to love Porsches because of the company's dedication to racing. At the same time, I'm sure some of their hardcore fans are not too proud of their precious badge adorning the hood of a $60,000 4-cylinder SUV.
I think everyone's over it, and those hardcore customers buy the Cayenne to park next to their 911 (which apparently like a 3rd or 4th car for most owners)

I say customers since they are who really matter. FANS can say whatever the F they want...
Exactly
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      11-16-2017, 07:43 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
FANBOI TROLL ALERT
I don’t see it that way. Just recognizing a car very well done. I do happen to respect the pedigree of their cars as they only make everyone better for the standards they set.

I think the Camaro ZL1, Corvette Grand Sport and Mustang GT350 variants are also quite fantastic cars. So many of these cars are executed with the same conceptual ideology but are carried out so differently. Each will always draw their respective fans nor are any a wrong choice for that person. I actually think the US made cars have made many strides and to me are probably right up there with some of those top Marques in the European (Porsche, Mclaren, and a couple others) when it comes to certain characteristics. The more choices we have the better it is.
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      11-16-2017, 08:31 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
My guess is it would have still lost, lets just face it Porsche make better cars than BMW.

It's no shame, just how it is.
Totally agree.
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      11-16-2017, 09:18 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
My guess is it would have still lost, lets just face it Porsche make better cars than BMW.

It's no shame, just how it is.
Well, that really just depends on what you want. Is a 911 or Cayman a better sports car than BMW offerings? You bet. If what you want is a fast, sporty four door sedan that seats 5 and has a MT...well, then I think that BMW makes the better car. I will say that Porsche has the lock on building cars without squeaks and rattles...
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      11-16-2017, 09:34 PM   #99
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I’ve owed Porsche 911 Turbo S, 4S, and spent a fair amount of time in the GTS. The GTS is a great car. The price on the model I wanted was nearly $150k USD plus tax. Awesome car.

Yet, the comparisons with an M3 are misplaced. It’s not the same category car. Can you put adults in the back seat—-yes. Porsche— no. Can you go to Home Depot and put an 8 foot ladder in the M3 (rear seats folded) — Yes. Porsche—no. Road trip use with loads of luggage—-BMW yes. Porsche—-no. There are many like/similar comparisons.

The Porsche will be a better track car. More sporty overall. The M3 will be close. However, in overall driving and practicality—BMW is my choice.

Now, if I wanted a weekend fun car for pure sports car performance while sacrificing in the areas referenced above— Porsche 911 GTS is clear choice. Plus, in California I’m quessing the GTS would cost me $25k to $50k more.

The comparison is entertaining yet lacks merit.

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      11-17-2017, 12:07 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
FANBOI TROLL ALERT
Haha, it was only a matter of time. What’s the username and number of accounts up to now? He just can’t resist! I won’t lie though, I find his posts entertaining.
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      11-17-2017, 12:42 AM   #101
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Okay, all bs aside. You being a normal dude with no requirement for a four door car, and the budget to cross shop these two, a Jaguar, and some AMG something or other.
When it's your money you worked hard for, as in not quite disposable income, would you actually chose the M3?
Da fuck outta here, even with all the other choices, I would estimate that a huge percentage would chose the Porsche. But as a clear comparison of these two which they are very comparable. I would pic the Porsche all freaking day.

People throw the kitchen sink and even non comparable cars in the mix to make it an even match...like where the hell did an M3 come from. Me and my wife could travel in a 911 nicely and why would I need to be going to Home Depot in my sports car to pick up wood and washing machines, next I'll be forced to wear plaid?

The outcome was always going to be Porsche sided. The only thing the review lacked was clear performance data and track comparison times for the numbers racers online....but the shit that 80% plus buyers will never really do with their car.
Talk about space and practicality but forget that the M3 has been stripped down of any comfort only to still not match the Porsche which sacrifices not one creature comfort. No arm rest, really, that's ok...if you just want to get a track toy then this whole debate is stupid because there aren't many of us here that wealthy to buy $120k cars to beat up at a track. The M3 on that alone makes for a horrible daily or even weekend car with your lady.

In my situation, the only thing that can keep me out of the Porsche is high maintenance and insurance cost....read it again, my situation.

Last edited by Blksnowflake; 11-17-2017 at 12:47 AM..
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      11-17-2017, 12:51 AM   #102
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A base 991.2 with its far superior platform and chassis can outperform M4 GTS despite of power deficit. No mention a 911GTS against a CS.

What happened with this comparison is they just had material for one episode.
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      11-17-2017, 04:00 AM   #103
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I love Porsche, but damn their version of I drive sucks. Changing the radio station is an overly complicated ordeal. Also have manually turn off the auto start stop every singe time u drive it.

Now instead of all the buttons it is haptic touch which I can barely stand their touch screen “buttons” much less try to find the haptic things driving.
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      11-17-2017, 04:58 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Well, that really just depends on what you want. Is a 911 or Cayman a better sports car than BMW offerings? You bet. If what you want is a fast, sporty four door sedan that seats 5 and has a MT...well, then I think that BMW makes the better car.
I think you're drawing my statement out to a point it doesn't make, I didn't say that Porsche have an equivalent car across the BMW range, I just said they make better cars.
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      11-17-2017, 05:35 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Blksnowflake View Post
Okay, all bs aside. You being a normal dude with no requirement for a four door car, and the budget to cross shop these two, a Jaguar, and some AMG something or other.
When it's your money you worked hard for, as in not quite disposable income, would you actually chose the M3?
Da fuck outta here, even with all the other choices, I would estimate that a huge percentage would chose the Porsche. But as a clear comparison of these two which they are very comparable. I would pic the Porsche all freaking day.

People throw the kitchen sink and even non comparable cars in the mix to make it an even match...like where the hell did an M3 come from. Me and my wife could travel in a 911 nicely and why would I need to be going to Home Depot in my sports car to pick up wood and washing machines, next I'll be forced to wear plaid?

The outcome was always going to be Porsche sided. The only thing the review lacked was clear performance data and track comparison times for the numbers racers online....but the shit that 80% plus buyers will never really do with their car.
Talk about space and practicality but forget that the M3 has been stripped down of any comfort only to still not match the Porsche which sacrifices not one creature comfort. No arm rest, really, that's ok...if you just want to get a track toy then this whole debate is stupid because there aren't many of us here that wealthy to buy $120k cars to beat up at a track. The M3 on that alone makes for a horrible daily or even weekend car with your lady.

In my situation, the only thing that can keep me out of the Porsche is high maintenance and insurance cost....read it again, my situation.
What I love about my M4 and my M3s before it is their multi-purpose aspect. It is my 4-season daily driver to get me to work, bring the kids to school and used for our family outings. We did many road trips with the family (wife and 2 kids) with the car packed with luggage, baby stroller and all while still being very comfortable and have fun on a spirited/sporty drive. I do use it to go to home depot to pick up lumbar or bags of earth. And very importantly to me, it also serves my addiction as a track rat very well for ~20 days a year. What I always like to say about my ///Ms is that they aren't the best at anything, but they are the second best at everything. I've pondered on many occasions of getting a 911 (particularly a GT3) since I've always loved and admired them. But it means I would also need to get a second car for myself for the DD practical needs. I just can't justify to mobilize that much capital in two vehicles when my needs can be well fulfilled by one.

You are a bit exaggerating saying the M4CS (not an M3 in this comparo) "has been stripped down of all comfort" for performance. The M4CS is still very well appointed with a lot of creature comforts. I don't think that removing a few speakers, the second HVAC zone, center armrest and door pulls qualifies as stripping down of all comfort and I am not sure it makes such a difference in performance. I think it is mostly done for the "image" of the car. I have to say that this is an aspect I am not fully bought on of the M4CS, I prefer the approach they used for the M3CS.

If I just had to pick the best performance/driver's car between the M4CS and 911GTS, I would pick the 911 without any hesitation. No contest here. But when I factor the cost and my current practicality needs, the M4CS becomes my pick.
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      11-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
What I love about my M4 and my M3s before it is their multi-purpose aspect. It is my 4-season daily driver to get me to work, bring the kids to school and used for our family outings. We did many road trips with the family (wife and 2 kids) with the car packed with luggage, baby stroller and all while still being very comfortable and have fun on a spirited/sporty drive. I do use it to go to home depot to pick up lumbar or bags of earth. And very importantly to me, it also serves my addiction as a track rat very well for ~20 days a year. What I always like to say about my ///Ms is that they aren't the best at anything, but they are the second best at everything. I've pondered on many occasions of getting a 911 (particularly a GT3) since I've always loved and admired them. But it means I would also need to get a second car for myself for the DD practical needs. I just can't justify to mobilize that much capital in two vehicles when my needs can be well fulfilled by one.

You are a bit exaggerating saying the M4CS (not an M3 in this comparo) "has been stripped down of all comfort" for performance. The M4CS is still very well appointed with a lot of creature comforts. I don't think that removing a few speakers, the second HVAC zone, center armrest and door pulls qualifies as stripping down of all comfort and I am not sure it makes such a difference in performance. I think it is mostly done for the "image" of the car. I have to say that this is an aspect I am not fully bought on of the M4CS, I prefer the approach they used for the M3CS.

If I just had to pick the best performance/driver's car between the M4CS and 911GTS, I would pick the 911 without any hesitation. No contest here. But when I factor the cost and my current practicality needs, the M4CS becomes my pick.
That’s the thing exactly.

I’ve recently gotten an instructor ride in a Camaro ZL1 at VIR and came away extremely impressed by that car. A monumental achievement by GM. Suspension felt as good as the Porsche, and the way that beast managed its tires was stupendous. But it comes with the same practicality deletes as the Porsche: unusable back seats, small/awkward trunk, low/scraping front.

If GM would find it in their hearts to make a 4 door Camaro with better packaging, adult styling and same weight, I would defect.
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      11-17-2017, 08:09 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
What I love about my M4 and my M3s before it is their multi-purpose aspect. It is my 4-season daily driver to get me to work, bring the kids to school and used for our family outings. We did many road trips with the family (wife and 2 kids) with the car packed with luggage, baby stroller and all while still being very comfortable and have fun on a spirited/sporty drive. I do use it to go to home depot to pick up lumbar or bags of earth. And very importantly to me, it also serves my addiction as a track rat very well for ~20 days a year. What I always like to say about my ///Ms is that they aren't the best at anything, but they are the second best at everything. I've pondered on many occasions of getting a 911 (particularly a GT3) since I've always loved and admired them. But it means I would also need to get a second car for myself for the DD practical needs. I just can't justify to mobilize that much capital in two vehicles when my needs can be well fulfilled by one.

You are a bit exaggerating saying the M4CS (not an M3 in this comparo) "has been stripped down of all comfort" for performance. The M4CS is still very well appointed with a lot of creature comforts. I don't think that removing a few speakers, the second HVAC zone, center armrest and door pulls qualifies as stripping down of all comfort and I am not sure it makes such a difference in performance. I think it is mostly done for the "image" of the car. I have to say that this is an aspect I am not fully bought on of the M4CS, I prefer the approach they used for the M3CS.

If I just had to pick the best performance/driver's car between the M4CS and 911GTS, I would pick the 911 without any hesitation. No contest here. But when I factor the cost and my current practicality needs, the M4CS becomes my pick.
Owned M3s for over 12 years. Could not agree more...well said.
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      11-17-2017, 08:56 AM   #108
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Have you read the analysis in the post I linked?

How is it "light"?
It's not light at all you quote the UK M4 at 59,080 Lbs!
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      11-17-2017, 09:09 AM   #109
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I love Porsche, but damn their version of I drive sucks. Changing the radio station is an overly complicated ordeal. Also have manually turn off the auto start stop every singe time u drive it.

Now instead of all the buttons it is haptic touch which I can barely stand their touch screen “buttons” much less try to find the haptic things driving.
I guess it depends on how you use a car's infotainment. To me, I prefer my 981 PCM over my former iDrive iterations. Don't get me wrong, iDrive is way more advanced but I really only use the infotainment for radio/media and the map/nav, at times.

For example, on the MF display in the dash of the 981, if I go to the song selection menu, it will stay put on the highlighted song until I finally select it, where in the F80, if I scrolled the wheel to queue a song, the song list would disappear after a few seconds and go back to the current song if I went to the song list again. Little things like that are better in the Porsche. Although I do agree trying to select a preset from the screen while driving is more difficult than hitting a button in the M.

However, I have the older 991.1/981 PCM, not the newer 991.2 system, so things may have changed in the update.

Also, my auto start/stop is default off at all times. That must have changed for the 991.2/718.
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      11-17-2017, 11:38 AM   #110
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The new 991.2 911T would have been a better comparison for the M4 CS. Similar price points, power, and "stripped-down," back to the basics vibe. Just my .02
But even then the base 911 murders the M3 in all aspects other than PRACTICALITY for a man with needs for 4 adult seats.


I have a 2017 911 S and 2017 Comp F80 M3. The 911 S.


I think its funny us BMW guys actually compare our M3's to 911's...
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