F80 M3 VBOX Acceleration Results: 4.2s 0-100kmh / 0-62mph

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by Suave

I would be wary of making definitive conclusions based on results executed on less than optimal conditions. This was a public road with a bend on a very hot day with an amateur driver. I guarantee that once chris Harris, randy pobst and others do their track testing they will be at 3.7-3.8 and 11.8/11.9. This car is faster on twisties, track, and straight line than a stock M5-M6...Well that is until the upcoming new models come out but even then it would only best the f8x in straight line.

These are pretty close to optimal conditions. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is not going to cause a lot of issues with a 0-60 time.

Secondly, how exactly is Chris Harris going to be able to use the launch control function to drop half a second (lol) from the time UAE posted? I'm pretty sure that's the point of launch control is that anyone can do it.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Thanks OP. Nice to seem some real data. We all really appreciate these "pre-magazine" instrumented results (even if only Vbox).

For the benefit of those of us Americans obsessed with 0-60, the posts title should note NO ROLLOUT. This is a sub 4 second run to 100 km/hr and thus also to 60 mph with roll out. More on that later.

Looks like I pretty well NAILED most major metrics way back in late 2010. Have a look here. There sure wasn't much known about the car that long ago, we even thought it might be called an F32 M3... From that post:



The car is also performing just as I have simulated assuming 455 hp and 430 ft lb of torque and with all unknowns from the above work removed, primarily weight, drag and gearing (and yes assuming some slightly better numbers for some contests will be achieved with some highly skilled drivers). Yes, there can be little doubt that the car is underrated. Although we can't definitively say 455 hp yet. I think especially given the 400m time, the car is at least 450 hp, 450-460 is completely consistent with these results.

1 foot roll outs do make a significant difference, about 0.3 s for the 1/4 mi and about the same 0-60. A roll out is just that the timer does not even start until the car moves 1 foot. Here are the simulation results showing with roll out and no roll out. US drag racing and most if not all magazines use the 1 foot roll out. 1/4 mile vs. 400m does matter as well. See below:

By the way the methodology behind the tables below is a physics based vehicle simulation program. It certainly isn't perfect but with good inputs and careful customization is can be highly accurate. There is a bit more on the inputs and methodology in the first link above.



Comments:

• The car is eventually going to get some 0-60 runs between 3.6-3.9 sec. My simulations are a bit optimistic with the off the line traction model (3.5 s)
• The car is clearly going to break a 12 sec 1/4 mi time, especially under the US standard allowing the 1 foot roll out.

And for our metric friends...

This every M car is underrated stuff has got to stop.

The performance delta between predicted and observed is a DCT effect not an indication that the car is overrated. (And to a lesser extent of an efficient drive train)

The trap speed for the manual trans cars will be c/w the stated hp rating (and adjusted slightly for an efficient powertrain).

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by Np2014

I wonder how a dinan engine chip or piggy back chip will change the time numbers. For example how would an extra 50 hp and extra 50 lbs of torque change the times? Or an extra 100 hp or 100 lbs of torque change the numbers?

Haha, you are seriously shrooming if you think they'll be able to add 100hp/torque to these locked down, pill-bottle-sized turbos.

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by uae247

Well
That's why I am not one of those many many people. And I think people who choose to buy an M3 would agree.

I drive on tracks
I drift
And I enjoy everything BUT traffic light drag races. Cause in here, if you want straight line speed, buy an AWD DCT Turbo car which will always take off but have no soul. I never liked the GTR or the 911 Turbo but love the GT2 (which will loose to a 911 Turbo with launch control and DCT)

My opinion
That's

Thanks again so much for everything you've been doing for us!

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Johnmd

What's up is people making "claims" that its "just as fast" as the M6 for several months now, especially after BMW's published 0-1000m number.

And for many, MANY, and MANY people who never visit a race track once in their lifetime and never will, that straight line speed in day to day driving is what counts. All this "handling" and "drifting" is meaningless when you are driving from stop light to stop light or in freeway/highway conditions. M3 will only shine/take the lead in a race track.

It is natural to compare the cars.

Canyon carving and mountain runs are pretty fun too. That said I'm glad Infineon is just 20 minutes away from where I work. I'll be spending some time there once the M4 gets stateside

[turbo8765]

How many miles on your car?

You should run some more numbers after a few thousand miles, I suspect it will be a bit quicker.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Rupes

These are pretty close to optimal conditions. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is not going to cause a lot of issues with a 0-60 time.

Secondly, how exactly is Chris Harris going to be able to use the launch control function to drop half a second (lol) from the time UAE posted? I'm pretty sure that's the point of launch control is that anyone can do it.

LC is dependant on the launch rpm. Launch rpm is chosen by the driver. There's one variable that makes a difference...

The common US one foot rollout as pointed out by many is also a factor that means a 0-60 time isn't allways 0-60. I think I have seen some comments that this might drop 0,1-0,2s off the OP's 0-60 time.

Use one foot rollout and perhaps a different launch rpm and you are looking at 3,x s 0-60 times

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Rupes

These are pretty close to optimal conditions. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is not going to cause a lot of issues with a 0-60 time.

Secondly, how exactly is Chris Harris going to be able to use the launch control function to drop half a second (lol) from the time UAE posted? I'm pretty sure that's the point of launch control is that anyone can do it.

BMW quoted 3.9 and their numbers are always conservative. Conditions where not optimal - no rollout also - and why his time was off as I stated in post and temp is just a part of equation. Look at what car mags where getting on E92 versus what BMW claimed as example. Read the thread for simulations. Just wait until a proper independent pro test is done and see. We will all be in for a pleasant result. nevertheless for what UAE had to work with he did a good job.

[GBPackerfan1963]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Correct, in fact barely 20% of m3 owners ever track their cars.

In fact, nearly all of the owners that I see are high income individuals that are generally older and NEVER push these cars at all.

The forum is a poor sampling of the M3 owner as most here are true enthusiasts.

Well I for one will drive it like I did my e39 M5. Drive it like I stole it. That is the way BMW's are meant to be driven.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

LOL at the worried M5/M6 owners...

I'm sure many speed runs, numbers and debates will follow.
Let's also not forget you have a CP. So let's wait for M3 CP

And last but not least: if you really want to compare cars, it should be done in identical conditions (including same place and same time), otherwise it's all just speculation.

And to higher speeds, bigger engines will always have an advantage. So don't worry about your money spent on the 4L TT. It's not wasted.

lol he's not worried and as an F10 owner neither am I, our cars are insane for the weight they carry and while they aren't as tune friendly as an RS7 or E63, I wouldn't dare mess with my car or GMDs if I was rolling around in a stock M4...

The thing that looks to be great about this car is its again underrated, and hopefully has tuning potential that is at least equal to the increases the s63tu is capable of.

Originally Posted by Koldun

Haha, you are seriously shrooming if you think they'll be able to add 100hp/torque to these locked down, pill-bottle-sized turbos.

Piggyback under boost from TMap = instant gains, I have full confidence in Terry at least being able to get us Racegas + Boost and meth... Yeah 100hp isn't unreasonable at all.

The unknown is when does this engine have nothing left to give... Because 4lbs of boost the m5/m6 are going strong as can be before you even start talking bolt ons.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by GBPackerfan1963

Well I for one will drive it like I did my e39 M5. Drive it like I stole it. That is the way BMW's are meant to be driven.

I'm always happiest with my e39 m5 when I'm driving it like that. As soon as I putter around, I find my (e60 545i short shifter) to be a bit too stiff and I notice a bit more of it's age and start thinking about stuff like shadow codes for CPS

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Rupes

These are pretty close to optimal conditions. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is not going to cause a lot of issues with a 0-60 time.

Secondly, how exactly is Chris Harris going to be able to use the launch control function to drop half a second (lol) from the time UAE posted? I'm pretty sure that's the point of launch control is that anyone can do it.

The OP posted a 0-100km/h (62.15mph) without a 1 foot roll out in 80+ weather. IMO, 0-60mph from US publications are likely to get in the 3.6-3.9 range to 60mph with a 1 foot roll out on a good traction surface, especially the one that do corrections for weather conditions.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Johnmd

What's up is people making "claims" that its "just as fast" as the M6 for several months now, especially after BMW's published 0-1000m number.

And for many, MANY, and MANY people who never visit a race track once in their lifetime and never will, that straight line speed in day to day driving is what counts. All this "handling" and "drifting" is meaningless when you are driving from stop light to stop light or in freeway/highway conditions. M3 will only shine/take the lead in a race track.

It is natural to compare the cars.

I get it: A bunch of a very hopeful, well meaning, but ultimately misinformed folks thought a 0-1000m test indicated the car would be about as fast as another vehicle with ~50% more displacement and ~140+ more hp. And maybe in certain very limited situations it will be.

But now it's the opposite: The M5/M6 comparison is now beat to death and it's well known/understood that the m3/m4 is not going to be as fast in a straight line.

Lastly, I can't speak for others but the M3 has always been the poor choice for stoplight racing. That's why I called the M5/M6 the bahn-burner luxo barge. It's made for stomping your foot and catapulting forward in total luxury. It's the latest in a long line of such cars, like the S55/S63, the latest E63, the Audi RS7, etc.

Beating the dead horse that the M3 is slower than those cars is missing the vision of the M3. And let's be real: Alot of M3 fans think it should be the fastest drag racer. Nonetheless, that's not it's primary purpose and focusing on that is a dis-service to the educated, the uneducated, and the forum.

/Rant

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Koldun

Haha, you are seriously shrooming if you think they'll be able to add 100hp/torque to these locked down, pill-bottle-sized turbos.

You might not be able to add 100hp/tq in high altitude with hot and humid weather. But let's not forget that the S55 (just like the S63) does not use it's maximum boost to make the advertised hp. It has a boost reserve that is added to compensate for poor conditions so that the engine still makes it's adverticed hp/tq at the top of Mount Everest in 140deg F

At least 5 European tuners think they can add (on paper) 80hp/tq from their first simple piggyback tunes.

[ASAP]

Can we get an M4.5? Lol

With an unassuming 500 HP high displacement TT 3.8L I6 that weighs around 3600 lbs?

That is the car for many... Obviously I am JK, there are many reasons that this is not possible.

[dmk08]

So do you guys feel the ZCP M3/M4 will get a HP bump like the CP M5/M6? I think it will personally. Now that I had to go E92 again (needed a car) I probably will try and hold off for a comp pack.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Beating the dead horse that the M3 is slower than those cars is missing the vision of the M3. And let's be real: Alot of M3 fans think it should be the fastest drag racer. Nonetheless, that's not it's primary purpose and focusing on that is a dis-service to the educated, the uneducated, and the forum.

/Rant

Very true... lol if someone is trying to skimp on spending 100k and get the performance the s63tu provides or RS7, E63s its not gonna happen... I know I'm trying to get back some more connectivity with the car/road and lighten up for turns while still HOPEFULLY having some potential room to grow with a forced induction car that is packing the DCT, and thats where I hope things get interesting .

[Audio Fan]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

UAE, can you tell us how the M3 and M6 feel relative to each other during straight line acceleration? Does the M3 just seem quick or do you get the sense of lots of power through the runs?

+1

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Audio Fan

+1

This is from yesterday... m5 is throwing traction with MDM into the 70s and almost 80s...

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

This is from yesterday... m5 is throwing traction with MDM into the 70s and almost 80s...

Hehehe, I can get my e39 m5 to do that on brand new sticky summer tires.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Hehehe, I can get my e39 m5 to do that on brand new sticky summer tires.

I'd hope so with brand new tires

[myzmak]

Don't get this M5 vs M3 debtate.

An M5 weighs 4,300 lbs and has 560 hp - which is about 291.7 hp / ton (british tons)

An F8x M3 weighs 3,600 and has 425 hp - which is about 264.4 hp / ton.

They both have the torques to get them going....the M5 should be faster because it has more jam to get its bulk moving.

None of this should be a surprise.

....of course the M3 will drive very differently and, as the reviewers have all noted, it will feel lighter, more agile, etc, than even the outgoing M3.

But straight-line acceleration is meaningless. The new S63 AMG is supposed to hit 100 km/h in 4.2 seconds (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...o-news)....but would anyone mistake driving one for driving either an M3 or an M5? Of course not.

Long story short: M5 folks: thanks for stopping by this forum. Your car is very nice, has lots of HP and is quite fast. Not as fast as other cars, but so what?


We all understand the point - unless there is something new to say, we'll see you around ok now love you bye bye.

Yup.

Bye-bye.

....yes, Grandma, i understand.....

...no I don't know how she said that, but i have to go now...

ok....bye for now....

yup. real good.

very fast.

yes.

got it.

ok, really, thanks for coming by and we'll talk soon.

ok.

ok.

yes.

yup.

uh-huh.

ok....bye bye then....

ok........

<closes door, hangs up phone, reminds all to not feed the trolls, etc>